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EVE would get so many more subs IF...?

First post
Author
Ekscalybur
Templar Services Inc.
#41 - 2012-08-21 19:19:54 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Fleshed out PvE combined with safer-esque high-sec would definitely bring in the numbers. (i.e. full on Carebear.)

PvP would benefit if PvP losses were easier to replace. (i.e. "free" ships.)

However, both would "ruin" the game (i.e. annoy a lot of the core playerbase.) But if the dumbed down income versus the HTFU player income was large enough to overcome the risk in dumbing down the game, then it would happen. I imagine that even the UO school devs have their price.

So the real question is, how do you dumb down the game enough to make the business case to justify such an overhaul of the game? Or how do you dumb down the game with PvE without sacrificing PvP in order to have your cake and eat it too?

Easiest solution is to have customized shards per market, e.g. create a new PvE focused shard. Get rid of caps, supercaps, and sovereignty in order to rework them with a PvE focus later. Create ye olde wow style battleground instances with a minimal death penalty. Downside is that new shards would cost money and there's the risk that a lot of folks would flee Tranquility for the PvE shard.

Zero-sum games aren't for everyone.


Those 2 things wouldn't ruin the game. Ruin leaves the assumption it could be fixed at some point. Those 2 things would REMOVE the things that make Eve what it is. Everything is PvP, even the 'carebear' stuff is strictly PvP, and everything you buy is created by other players.

The shards would do the same thing. Without a robust PvP community, blowing up ships, the 'carebear' manufacturers would suddently have next to no one buying their products. The entire game is player driven, siphoning some players off so that they would be secluded and protected, would crash both sides of the equation.

nerf Veldspar!

Josef Djugashvilis
#42 - 2012-08-21 20:00:49 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Nerf highsec mining, buff mining in low/null, and watch the PvP'ers chase after the newly vulnerable miners! Smile


James, you are obsessed with miners.

Let it go.

Find a new topic to write your long boring posts about.

At least they might provide novelty value for a while.

This is not a signature.

Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#43 - 2012-08-21 20:02:43 UTC
Anslo wrote:

So with that said, what do you think CCP could do to get more long-term subscribers? Be as specific as possible!



First off this thread seems akin to asking a group of Republicans to elaborate in the social benefits of abortion...

In all seriousness. I think the following would attract more players.

1. Add station and ship environments so that this game has more substance than icons and menus.
2. Add crew to ships to asist in running it
3. Realign incentives to make anything destructible but with serious consequences for doing so.
4. Add a holosuite to ships so the PvP crowd can regularly get their rocks off without griefing noobs to ragequit.
5. Organize a formal Capsuleers League so the e-peen strokers have a way to say they are better than us.
6. Reengineer the game physics to be more like real space and less like submarine tavel.
7. Allow more than one capsuleer on a ship and allow them to do different tasks
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#44 - 2012-08-21 20:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Shizuken
edit for redundant post
Dunna Mek
Genstar Inc
Villore Accords
#45 - 2012-08-21 20:07:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…it appealed even more to the niche and stopped worrying so much about the general public or, worse, tried to compete with the mainstream games for the mainstream audience using mainstream gameplay.


This.

Given what's happened to other MMO's that have essentially created the same game (i. e. losing subs), I agree that companies should strive to create games that are innovative, and unique, and appeal to smaller, more passionate audiences. Its better in the long run to have smaller, but sustained growth.

I also think that more formal pre-game education by CCP to incoming players would be helpful, maybe in the form of a Q & A. I think the problem lies in that too many players approach this game with the same framework and state of mind of other MMO's, and when they play this game, they get disappointed. They need to understand that you have to approach Eve from an entirely fresh perspective. For instance, Eve is goal driven, not gear driven. Eve is less about character progression, and more about player progression (player experience). They also need to fully understand that SP's are not levels, that there are no noobie zones, and that while Eve is solo friendly, it's not necessarily always solo fun. These are all concepts that we see all over the forums, but I've never seen them formally compiled by CCP for incoming players.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#46 - 2012-08-21 20:11:25 UTC
EVE would live longer if it was about something else than blowing space pixels.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Skorpynekomimi
#47 - 2012-08-21 20:12:17 UTC
EVE would get so many more subs if it was more accessible. Out of all the people I've introduced to EVE, none have stuck around. None caught the bug.
The new player experience and learning curve got some. The rest just didn't like it. I've helped newbies, tempted them to sub with free stuff in contracts, but in the end, either they got the bug, or they didn't.

EVE needs a proper tutorial. It needs people to be more helpful to newbies, it needs more than just 'you've finished the career agents, now go out and do whatever'.

However, the devs also need to keep listening. Keep fixing **** that's broken. Keep tweaking things. Keep rebalancing things carefully.

Otherwise, more publicity can't really hurt. I try talking about it all I can, but when I tried discussing it on tumblr, 500 people instantly jumped on me and outcompeted my market orders. On twitter, I managed to tempt 3 people back to the game.

Economic PVP

Terraferma K10
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-08-21 20:26:13 UTC
EVE would get more subs if they put in a hot coffee mod.

That's what I like about new eden chicks, I keep getting older and they keep staying the same.
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#49 - 2012-08-21 20:27:34 UTC
I don't think there is much of a solution. The basic idea of mmorpg's that's in peoples heads is building. Build wealth, build character gear, stats etc..

In this game you do build stats but everything else can go up in smoke in seconds, so they say F this, I'm not grinding this all over again and leave. Then you have game mechanics that favor griefers, war deck's on noob corps, pvp ships in their missions baiting them, can flipping, it frustrates them to be that helpless and say F this.
Yea it's not a game for them, but that's how most people look at it. So it is a niche game by design.

5n4keyes
Sacred Templars
#50 - 2012-08-21 20:37:12 UTC
If Eve had better tech/skill tree's. (So I could learn to say be a logistics pilot in a frig, and have a tech tree that progresses through carrier and battleship til im eventually in a carrier)
Mirajane Cromwell
#51 - 2012-08-21 20:47:09 UTC
...if the game would give players the tools to be truly creative - meaning if we were able to design ships, design all kinds of player stations, design station environments, design everything within the preset rules. It would mean that the whole current blueprint / industry / market system would have to be redesigned to allow more room for creativity. If you can imagine something, you should be able to build it (or at least something very close to it) in a vast expanding galaxy where you can live amongst huge alliances or as a lonely hermit in some distant forsaken system...

Why creativity you might ask? Look at the current hot games, f.ex. Minecraft has sold over 7 million copies and it has 38+ million registered users and all this in couple years and just because the game allows you to use your own imagination and creativity. There's plenty of other similar successes.

It's pretty darn addictive to create stuff from scratch, spent weeks/months to build something you imagined and then enjoy it with your friends once it's finished - Eve has these things too, but new players are pretty clueless about this stuff and I don't think there's any tutorials early in-game about how to set up POSes and stuff. Well, obviously you're not that wealthy after playing few days, but there should be something that a new player could build into space or into station or for your character.
Ginger Barbarella
#52 - 2012-08-21 20:50:04 UTC
Anslo wrote:
No, I don't think I will. Anyone else want to offer a constructive idea?


You not trolling the Forums anymore would be SERIOUSLY constructive. Really.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#53 - 2012-08-21 20:51:19 UTC
Jax Bederen wrote:
I don't think there is much of a solution. The basic idea of mmorpg's that's in peoples heads is building. Build wealth, build character gear, stats etc..

In this game you do build stats but everything else can go up in smoke in seconds, so they say F this, I'm not grinding this all over again and leave. Then you have game mechanics that favor griefers, war deck's on noob corps, pvp ships in their missions baiting them, can flipping, it frustrates them to be that helpless and say F this.
Yea it's not a game for them, but that's how most people look at it. So it is a niche game by design.



As i said above, EVE would live longer if it was about something else than blowing space pixels.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#54 - 2012-08-21 20:54:06 UTC
Mirajane Cromwell wrote:
...if the game would give players the tools to be truly creative - meaning if we were able to design ships, design all kinds of player stations, design station environments, design everything within the preset rules. It would mean that the whole current blueprint / industry / market system would have to be redesigned to allow more room for creativity. If you can imagine something, you should be able to build it (or at least something very close to it) in a vast expanding galaxy where you can live amongst huge alliances or as a lonely hermit in some distant forsaken system...

Why creativity you might ask? Look at the current hot games, f.ex. Minecraft has sold over 7 million copies and it has 38+ million registered users and all this in couple years and just because the game allows you to use your own imagination and creativity. There's plenty of other similar successes.

It's pretty darn addictive to create stuff from scratch, spent weeks/months to build something you imagined and then enjoy it with your friends once it's finished - Eve has these things too, but new players are pretty clueless about this stuff and I don't think there's any tutorials early in-game about how to set up POSes and stuff. Well, obviously you're not that wealthy after playing few days, but there should be something that a new player could build into space or into station or for your character.


And you forget that EVE is about the joys of deleting all the saves of somebody else's Minecraft project and suffer no consequence.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Rose Valley
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-08-21 21:31:21 UTC
EFT, EVEmon, Battleclinic

The in-game Fitting & Certificates

A new player experience tutorial setup which focuses in-depth on the above would be a good start.

>>> Default Fittings for all racial subcap ships would greatly help new players.

This would help remove one of the biggest issues with new players incorrectly fitting their ships or not fully taking advantages of ship bonuses. Many times I've seen players always asking others for recommended fits and/or being pushed to using external tools such as EFT or battleclinic to start. A good number of new players are usually overwhelmed by the flexibility of the fitting system and a simple default fitting shouldn't be an issue to create.

>>> Template Skillplan's for new pilots combined with the in-game certificate system

For example;

12 day New Combat Pilot Training Plan
3 Month Intermediate Combat Pilot Training Plan
6+ Month Advanced Combat Pilot Training Plan

12 day New Miner Pilot Training Plan
...etc...

The idea is to make the new player experience in EvE easy to learn but hard to master.

At the moment players have complete freedom and are encouraged to decide on their own, but for new players the above changes could really help make the transition from standard fantasy MMO's easier while still allowing them the option to do what they like.

I'm pretty sure the above would cover some of the most well repeated issues posted in the EVE New Citizens Q&A subforum, Rookie Chat and Help channels in-game.

But then again we could just continue keeping things the way they are now and seeing newbies make all the mistakes we did while learning how to play Pirate
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#56 - 2012-08-21 21:38:06 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Nerf highsec mining, buff mining in low/null, and watch the PvP'ers chase after the newly vulnerable miners! Smile



That was basically what GOON sponsored Hulkageddons accomplished, hisec mining nerfed, therefore, by default, lo/null sec mining was buffed, we lost thousands of subscribers, some of the lowest number of players online for years,

Thank God for the Barge buff, numbers are back up Cool

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#57 - 2012-08-21 21:38:46 UTC
I'm thinking that CCP is on the right track with the Winter expansion to get more people playing. The new POS system sounds to me like it's going to make people feel like they have a "home" in space. That means when people aren't logged in they might be thinking in the back of their mind "I wonder if my home is safe right now..."

That alone will probably increase players attachment to the game and increase the amount of time the average player logs in. ...at least you would think so.

It would be cool to log in and see over 100,000 on the server though. The flames of war wold sure burn hotter... and that in turn could draw even more players. We could see a feedback loop form... so careful what you wish for because you might just get it.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#58 - 2012-08-21 21:51:09 UTC
I'm going to shamelessly promote an idea I pasted on the F&I forums awhile back.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1408239#post1408239


The problem isn't gaining newbies... it's retaining them. And the reason (IMO) for lack of newbie retention is that they are not given enough clarity on the situation they are in.

Tell the newbie right from the start, in no uncertain terms... "your destruction is ALWAYS a possibility anywhere you go in the game. Someone, somewhere will find a reason to shoot you. It's YOUR job as an 'immortal demi-god ship captain' to find a way to get around such tribulations and throw it back at your adversaries."

I've seen too many newbies come into the game and assume that their ship is something that they should cherish and pimp out... that destruction is inherently bad... and that if you are young and new to the game you deserve special privileges and protections. Basically they come in and use the wrong "mentality" because no one tells them otherwise.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-08-21 23:04:19 UTC
The game was fun.

Is this a trick question?
Kethry Avenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-08-22 00:58:27 UTC
Lower the cost of clones by a large margin. like a factor of 10 or 100.

Have an option for you to auto buy the correct clone grade after getting podded.

Introduce a T2 pod that is slightly more survivable and that has 2 warp core points built in but costs a ton as a new isk sink.