These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Communication Center » EVE General Discussion » CCP, questions about the RMT war

Topic is locked indefinitely.

CCP, questions about the RMT war First post
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

Shadowsword

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 129

#1 - 2011-10-13 14:59:39 UTC

Hi CCP.

I'd like to know, and I'm sure I'm not the only one:

- How many CCP employees are assigned to actively looking for bot operations? I mean not simply waiting to receive reports, but rather things like watching 0.0 mining operations to see if they are done by humans and wallet transactions from hardcore 0.0 ratters?

- Do you have filters in place to bring to your attention accounts that stay logged almost permanently?

- Will you ever stop being so lenient with buyers and permaban them at first offense? Just taking away the isks isn't much of a detterent.

- When is the next Unholy Rage?

Thanks for your attention.

2,558
Prince Kobol Likes received: 2,558	#2 - 2011-10-13 15:07:17 UTC 1 look.. CCP will never win the war on RMT because that would mean banning most of null sec and half of high sec.

Ejit

STD contractors

Likes received: 57

#3 - 2011-10-13 15:47:10 UTC

Shadowsword wrote:

I don't think CCP will ever release any concrete details on their anti RMT efforts. Especially regarding software tools or staff devoted to the fight.

I personally believe CCP invests very little manpower, time and effort in the RMT war. Especially since some CCP staff have their fingers in the RMT pie as rumoured.

CCP Sreegs

CCP Retirement Home

Likes received: 2,809

#4 - 2011-10-13 16:07:58 UTC

Ejit wrote:

Shadowsword wrote:

I'll address this as well as possible though to be frank I don't think the answer is one you'll find 100% satisfactory.

- We are not going to divulge numbers of employees devoted to security tasks.
- We have old and continue to implement new detections for various types of activity regularly
- Leniency is relative. The numbers we've been collecting show that the current system of administrative actions is effective at curbing the behavior.
- Never. Security is a process not a powerpoint presentation or a graph.

To elaborate on the last point however it is likely that we'll be expressing some more information to you in the near future regarding certain aspects of this subject. I can't really elaborate because timing and such are subject to change.

Regarding insinuations of staff members being involved in RMT you may report allegations of misconduct to IA. Otherwise it would be pretty peachy if you would refrain from making allegations you have absolutely no reason to believe. If you have a reason to believe it and want it to stop I can only assume you'd report it. Otherwise the alternative is that you're just trying to cause trouble and that makes my job harder which is pretty uncool.

This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here.

Thanks!

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

Demon Azrakel

Garoun Investment Bank

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 101

#5 - 2011-10-13 16:11:57 UTC

CCP Sreegs wrote:

Ejit wrote:

Shadowsword wrote:

But, but, CCP is selling gametime, a valuable good in the EVE universe, for real money...

Shadowsword

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 129

#6 - 2011-10-13 16:26:56 UTC

CCP Sreegs wrote:

Well, thanks for taking the time to answer, but I'll point out that keeping things like the number of security employees secret, while probably marginally beneficial to their efficiency, might have adverse effects that far outweight the benefit. Like the growing trend to believe, wether it's true or not, that null-sec is more and more dominated by RMT and that CCP do nothing about it...

Callic Veratar

Likes received: 683

#7 - 2011-10-13 16:47:35 UTC

Shadowsword wrote:

It irrelevant how many people are actually involved in RMT/bot detection. Even if it's ONLY CCP Sreegs, if the tools he develops are effective the job's being done.

The actual number of RMTer/botters is likely far less that you believe, simply because some people tend to be paranoid and see conspiracies and corruption everywhere, even when it's not.

Vincent Athena

Photosynth

Likes received: 4,043

#8 - 2011-10-13 16:50:13 UTC

Demon Azrakel wrote:

But, but, CCP is selling gametime, a valuable good in the EVE universe, for real money...

But that's not a EULA violation. No CCP employee gets money for ISK when a player buys a PLEX for Real money.

And remember CCP is not bound by the EULA, it only applies to subscribers. For example look at the Time Dialation video and you will be several bots running.

However CCP employees are bound by it when they are playing. Ive heard rumors that the Internal Affairs people have no sense of humor when it comes to CCP employees doing something wrong.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Rakshasa Taisab

Sane Industries Inc.

Likes received: 2,037

#9 - 2011-10-13 16:52:55 UTC

CCP Sreegs wrote:

I'll address this as well as possible though to be frank I don't think the answer is one you'll find 100% satisfactory.

True

CCP Sreegs wrote:

- We are not going to divulge numbers of employees devoted to security tasks.

You are all alone, working in an empty cubicle with no natural sunlight reaching your desk, right? (the few months of the year when sunlight can be found)

CCP Sreegs wrote:

Regarding insinuations of staff members being involved in RMT you may report allegations of misconduct to IA. Otherwise it would be pretty peachy if you would refrain from making allegations you have absolutely no reason to believe. If you have a reason to believe it and want it to stop I can only assume you'd report it. Otherwise the alternative is that you're just trying to cause trouble and that makes my job harder which is pretty uncool.

What do we do if we have evidence that IA is in on the RMT money laundering scheme?

And half of Svalbard is in russian hands so the 'russian gold-farmer mafia' has more than a little influence in the north, as such we can never know if CCP has, or has not, been taken over and turned into a vodka-subsidies based organization.

CCP Sreegs wrote:

This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here.

No one here is suggesting that CCP Shadow has anything to do with these allegations. Shame on you for dragging him into this.

Nyan

Bloodpetal

Tir Capital Management Group

Likes received: 1,435

#10 - 2011-10-13 16:53:09 UTC | Edited by: Bloodpetal

CCP Sreegs wrote:

PLEX?

Wub You! Peoplez are stupid.

Where I am.

Kengutsi Akira

Doomheim

Likes received: 458

#11 - 2011-10-13 16:54:04 UTC | Edited by: Kengutsi Akira

Prince Kobol wrote:

look.. CCP will never win the war on RMT because that would mean banning most of null sec and half of high sec.

yup, DRF disappears overnight, imagine that power vaccum
and no more goons O.o

Vincent Athena wrote:

Demon Azrakel wrote:

But, but, CCP is selling gametime, a valuable good in the EVE universe, for real money...

Gee i wonder why... it only becomes a PR friggin nightmare every time a CCP is caught doing something wrong

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Kengutsi Akira

Doomheim

Likes received: 458

#12 - 2011-10-13 16:58:06 UTC | Edited by: Kengutsi Akira

Rakshasa Taisab wrote:

CCP Sreegs wrote:

This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here.

Yes, theres nothing shadowwy about what ppl are seeing in broad daylight.
like when you recruit CCP members from corps alleged to be the biggest sources OF RMT in the game. Then put them in charge OF detecting the RMT lol

and ppl wonder why we will never see those numbers

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Bloodpetal

Tir Capital Management Group

Likes received: 1,435

#13 - 2011-10-13 16:59:42 UTC

Kengutsi Akira wrote:

Prince Kobol wrote:

look.. CCP will never win the war on RMT because that would mean banning most of null sec and half of high sec.

yup, DRF disappears overnight, imagine that power vaccum
and no more goons O.o

Where do you people come up with this stuff. Even if there was some mysterious RMT trading going on, I mean... how does it even negatively affect you again? The only people that have any reason to be worried about RMT are CCP.

RMT ruins their business - not yours. Not your gametime or your actions. In the end, if you're a small little corp, then RMT isn't going to affect you because you're probably not going up against an opponent that RMT would either not make it any easier nor any more difficult for you to fight. IF you're a mega-null sec alliance block, you have so much assets, that if someone wants to blow their RL Money on RMT trying to fight you they're just going to get stomped.

The accusations of NC doing RMT by DRF are interesting, however I'd like to know how/why they think that... which is the one thing they didn't address. The NC was an interesting situation though, and I definitely think some things could have been done better on that level by CCP in terms of null sec development decisions.

Where I am.

Kengutsi Akira

Doomheim

Likes received: 458

#14 - 2011-10-13 17:01:45 UTC

Bloodpetal wrote:

Kengutsi Akira wrote:

Prince Kobol wrote:

look.. CCP will never win the war on RMT because that would mean banning most of null sec and half of high sec.

yup, DRF disappears overnight, imagine that power vaccum
and no more goons O.o

The accusations of NC doing RMT by DRF are interesting, however I'd like to know how/why they think that... which is the one thing they didn't address. The NC was an interesting situation though, and I definitely think some things could have been done better on that level by CCP in terms of null sec development decisions.

please point out where i said anything about NC
then point out the part where I accused DRF of doing it instead

get off the soapbox please, I wasnt talking to/about you

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Malcanis

Vanishing Point.

The Initiative.

Likes received: 18,382

#15 - 2011-10-13 17:07:40 UTC

Bloodpetal wrote:

The accusations of NC doing RMT by DRF are interesting, however I'd like to know how/why they think that...

Well I think that came from when the list of customers of one of the largest ISK-selling organisations got leaked and most of their largest buyers were... in the NC.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Solstice Project

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 5,312

#16 - 2011-10-13 17:07:44 UTC | Edited by: Solstice Project

CCP Sreegs wrote:

Goon alt spotted. ^^

Krathos Morpheus

Legion Infernal

Likes received: 156

#17 - 2011-10-13 17:07:45 UTC | Edited by: Krathos Morpheus

CCP Sreegs wrote:

- Leniency is relative. The numbers we've been collecting show that the current system of administrative actions is effective at curbing the behavior.

Leaving buyers apart, what about the bots that farm for themselves?
This maybe affects the behavior on caught botters, but it encourages a try as you can keep the winnings and the penance is not that high. That said, permaban at first strike is not something you want to do, but a penalty on the wallet as well as in time should be in order if you don't want every doubting player to try.

Some of them may even succeed so much that they don't need to bot anymore when caught and can live off the money for a long time. Current policies work fine on RMT, but are not really a deterrent when you think about private bots, they have nothing to lose, just a few weeks of game time with a guaranteed irreversible gain in the isks they made already. What do you think, Sreegs? Did I missed something in the penalties for private bots or does it work that way?


Shadowsword The Scope Gallente Federation Likes received: 129	#18 - 2011-10-13 17:10:02 UTC Callic Veratar wrote: It irrelevant how many people are actually involved in RMT/bot detection. Even if it's ONLY CCP Sreegs, if the tools he develops are effective the job's being done. However effective the tool, it's still a mindless one, you need an human to take time to check the results. And more humans to check on things you don't have a tool for.

GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 7,457
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation Likes received: 7,457	#19 - 2011-10-13 17:12:49 UTC 4 its pretty hilarious to see people cowering in 1.0 systems afraid to leave talking confidently about what goes on in 0.0 Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 503
Dorian Wylde Imperial Academy Amarr Empire Likes received: 503	#20 - 2011-10-13 17:13:40 UTC CCP Sreegs wrote: This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here. Thanks! If this is the case, then a forum ban to the fools who keep doing it seems to be in order. And a ban on the credit card, not the account, would be the way to go.