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CCP, questions about the RMT war

First post
Author
Lord Azeroth
Perkone
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-01-14 16:23:08 UTC
I for one look forward to our continued RMT Overlords.
Crystal Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#62 - 2012-01-14 16:37:56 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
look.. CCP will never win the war on RMT because that would mean banning most of null sec and half of high sec.



Not too mention who cares, as long as players can buy isk for $$ from CCP the whole game is Pay 2 Win...

Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-01-14 16:44:18 UTC
Crystal Liche wrote:
Not too mention who cares, as long as players can buy isk for $$ from CCP the whole game is Pay 2 Win...


EVE is Learn 2 Win. The real winners are those who play for free via PLEX and still have more ISK made through gameplay than they can reasonably spend.

Best example of Learn 2 Win are crazy-good CovOps scouts.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#64 - 2012-01-14 16:48:43 UTC
Shadowsword wrote:
Hi CCP.

I'd like to know, and I'm sure I'm not the only one:

- How many CCP employees are assigned to actively looking for bot operations? I mean not simply waiting to receive reports, but rather things like watching 0.0 mining operations to see if they are done by humans and wallet transactions from hardcore 0.0 ratters?

- Do you have filters in place to bring to your attention accounts that stay logged almost permanently?

- Will you ever stop being so lenient with buyers and permaban them at first offense? Just taking away the isks isn't much of a detterent.

- When is the next Unholy Rage?


Thanks for your attention.


Hi please tell me how you detect bots so I can rewrite my bot code to avoid detection
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#65 - 2012-01-14 17:26:44 UTC
Jimi Crackcorn wrote:
Herping yourDerp wrote:
unholy rage made the players feel better.
when ccp announced they have banned a few hundred or so bot accounts and other RMTers it just looks good for CCP and to the players.


Yeah, it looks real good for CCP, but how many of those 100s were actually botters authorized by CCP? None, it's just the little guys that get hurt. The one man corp botters. They take all the hits so CCP can keep botting those bots, all while making it look like they're actually working to stop bots. Which they may be doing, but it's just those bots they don't authorize that they're looking for. Can't have anyone cutting in on their profits now can they.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a damn fool. PLEX is a clear sign of CCPs stance on RMT.


I used to think that posts like yours were paranoid. Then I saw these two links.

http://eve-search.com/thread/1364142/page/1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Björgólfur_Thor_Björgólfsson


Now I have to laugh at the fact that I thought the Goons and Botting were even an issue. Compared to the "connecting dots" in these two links, Goons and Bots are only the "tip of the iceberg". A rather apropos turn of phrase for Iceland, eh?
Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#66 - 2012-01-14 18:15:48 UTC


that's "bottling" company
not "botting" company Roll
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#67 - 2012-01-14 19:01:16 UTC
Morganta wrote:


that's "bottling" company
not "botting" company Roll


The bottling plant isn't the issue... the key is Bjorg's relationship to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novator_Partners

So you see, maybe the "bottling" plant was just a "typo".
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#68 - 2012-01-14 19:47:56 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
how are your ice mining skills, and your complaining in local when goons blow you up for funsies skills


Thank you for proving, once again, how irrelevant to the rest of us you actually are.

Pompous, myopic little prat.

Next!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#69 - 2012-01-14 19:49:37 UTC
Ugleb wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Shadowsword wrote:


Well, thanks for taking the time to answer, but I'll point out that keeping things like the number of security employees secret, while probably marginally beneficial to their efficiency, might have adverse effects that far outweight the benefit. Like the growing trend to believe, wether it's true or not, that null-sec is more and more dominated by RMT and that CCP do nothing about it...


I think that working on creative ways to report on that information would be far more effective to the playerbase than telling you how many people touch the problem, which is kinda the point. Communication about botting and RMT is certainly something we intend to be more open about in the future. I think as an example, I've given talks that have addressed the subject in a few venues in the past year but that information has never made its way to the forums, so I think maybe it's time to distill some of that into a blog and get it out to you guys to digest.


I would love to see an update from CCP on what is being done to combat botting/RMT in EVE.


"Operational Security."

That is all.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Miyamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2012-01-14 20:06:19 UTC
I'm confused. If it is known who the botters / RMT'ers are, then why do people not band together and fight against them?

Quickest way to end botting would be to kill the botting corps. and do it so often that they run out of funds to even buy another ship. Voila, no more RMT'ers or Botters. What would be more fun. Building more PI plants or POS's or taking out an entire RL operation?

Or am I missing something. I'm new, so its possible.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2012-01-14 20:09:38 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
how are your ice mining skills, and your complaining in local when goons blow you up for funsies skills


Thank you for proving, once again, how irrelevant to the rest of us you actually are.

Pompous, myopic little prat.

Next!


Well twist my nipple nuts I think you struck a nerve.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#72 - 2012-01-14 20:11:08 UTC
Jimi Crackcorn wrote:
Herping yourDerp wrote:
unholy rage made the players feel better.
when ccp announced they have banned a few hundred or so bot accounts and other RMTers it just looks good for CCP and to the players.


Yeah, it looks real good for CCP, but how many of those 100s were actually botters authorized by CCP? None, it's just the little guys that get hurt. The one man corp botters. They take all the hits so CCP can keep botting those bots, all while making it look like they're actually working to stop bots. Which they may be doing, but it's just those bots they don't authorize that they're looking for. Can't have anyone cutting in on their profits now can they.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a damn fool. PLEX is a clear sign of CCPs stance on RMT.


FFS...ShockedRollRoll

You are the fool, Crackhead:

PLEX is CCP taking steps to protect its' intellectual property, and profit thereby. They are not only 100% within their rights to do so, but as a shareholder-owned, for-profit entity, they are arguably obligated to do so. Monthly PLEX costs a bit more RL-money equivalent than straight-fee sub as well, doesn't it? And if you can't figure that out, well, then I'm afraid that I can't help you...Ugh

Oh, and you're even more foolish for coming off like you're white-knighting "little-guy" botters, whilst explicitly slandering people:

Jimi Crackcorn wrote:
They take all the hits so CCP can keep botting those bots, all while making it look like they're actually working to stop bots. Which they may be doing, but it's just those bots they don't authorize that they're looking for. Can't have anyone cutting in on their profits now can they.


I don't know where that falls exactly under the forum/game ToS, but if I were a mod, then I'd be seriously considering forum perma-banning your stupid, arrogant ass for that statement--be careful of slander, mate, it can get you into serious legal trouble IRL.

I would also, if I were a GM/IA staffer, think "Might he be trying to hide/divert attention from something?" based on that statement, and look at your in-game server-logs very, very carefully.

In other words, gather proof, and take it through regular channels first, and if that doesn't work, then start splooging on a public forum. Until then, you can just shut your beak and GTFO.

In even simpler words, try thinking before you speak.


Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Lord Azeroth
Perkone
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-01-16 17:03:38 UTC
Can we get to a billion pages on RMT ? I think so.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#74 - 2012-01-16 17:19:08 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
In even simpler words, try thinking before you speak.


Do you acknowledge you just asked for something humanity are failing to do since millenia?
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-01-16 18:04:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Skippermonkey
Morganta wrote:


that's "bottling" company
not "botting" company Roll


I spy a conspiracy

I had to quote this post so i could follow the link for Mr.Shady Businessman

all other links i've encountered on these forums work by either clicking the link or right clicking open in new tab

edit - this is really just a post to highlight the inadequacy of links on this forum, make them work properly PLEASE

edit 2 - i would quote you what web address ends up in the bar when i click the link, but im 'not allowed to input HTML' so yeah, this is great huh

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#76 - 2012-01-16 18:21:15 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

I'll address this as well as possible though to be frank I don't think the answer is one you'll find 100% satisfactory.

- We are not going to divulge numbers of employees devoted to security tasks.
- We have old and continue to implement new detections for various types of activity regularly
- Leniency is relative. The numbers we've been collecting show that the current system of administrative actions is effective at curbing the behavior.
- Never. Security is a process not a powerpoint presentation or a graph.

To elaborate on the last point however it is likely that we'll be expressing some more information to you in the near future regarding certain aspects of this subject. I can't really elaborate because timing and such are subject to change.

Regarding insinuations of staff members being involved in RMT you may report allegations of misconduct to IA. Otherwise it would be pretty peachy if you would refrain from making allegations you have absolutely no reason to believe. If you have a reason to believe it and want it to stop I can only assume you'd report it. Otherwise the alternative is that you're just trying to cause trouble and that makes my job harder which is pretty uncool.

This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here.

Thanks!


You are right, it didn't really tell me a whole lot but when the Blog comes out addressing how so much of the sand box is moslded by RMT, for RMT and if CCP is going to do anything about it, by all means let us know.
Vampire PeterPan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-01-17 00:03:24 UTC
Demon Azrakel wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ejit wrote:
Shadowsword wrote:
Hi CCP.

I'd like to know, and I'm sure I'm not the only one:

- How many CCP employees are assigned to actively looking for bot operations? I mean not simply waiting to receive reports, but rather things like watching 0.0 mining operations to see if they are done by humans and wallet transactions from hardcore 0.0 ratters?

- Do you have filters in place to bring to your attention accounts that stay logged almost permanently?

- Will you ever stop being so lenient with buyers and permaban them at first offense? Just taking away the isks isn't much of a detterent.

- When is the next Unholy Rage?


Thanks for your attention.


I don't think CCP will ever release any concrete details on their anti RMT efforts. Especially regarding software tools or staff devoted to the fight.

I personally believe CCP invests very little manpower, time and effort in the RMT war. Especially since some CCP staff have their fingers in the RMT pie as rumoured.


I'll address this as well as possible though to be frank I don't think the answer is one you'll find 100% satisfactory.

- We are not going to divulge numbers of employees devoted to security tasks.
- We have old and continue to implement new detections for various types of activity regularly
- Leniency is relative. The numbers we've been collecting show that the current system of administrative actions is effective at curbing the behavior.
- Never. Security is a process not a powerpoint presentation or a graph.

To elaborate on the last point however it is likely that we'll be expressing some more information to you in the near future regarding certain aspects of this subject. I can't really elaborate because timing and such are subject to change.

Regarding insinuations of staff members being involved in RMT you may report allegations of misconduct to IA. Otherwise it would be pretty peachy if you would refrain from making allegations you have absolutely no reason to believe. If you have a reason to believe it and want it to stop I can only assume you'd report it. Otherwise the alternative is that you're just trying to cause trouble and that makes my job harder which is pretty uncool.

This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here.

Thanks!


But, but, CCP is selling gametime, a valuable good in the EVE universe, for real money...

Good point, CCP is just RMTing. A like sent.
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-01-17 00:13:01 UTC
hey guys did you know there is a unit of measurement called a Butt? Yeah this thread is about as useful as a butt of butts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butt_%28volume%29
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-01-17 00:43:55 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Demon Azrakel wrote:


But, but, CCP is selling gametime, a valuable good in the EVE universe, for real money...


But that's not a EULA violation. No CCP employee gets money for ISK when a player buys a PLEX for Real money.

And remember CCP is not bound by the EULA, it only applies to subscribers. For example look at the Time Dialation video and you will be several bots running.

However CCP employees are bound by it when they are playing. Ive heard rumors that the Internal Affairs people have no sense of humor when it comes to CCP employees doing something wrong.


He was being facetious.

Prince Kobol wrote:
look.. CCP will never win the war on RMT because that would mean banning most of null sec and half of high sec.


And this is a problem how? Nulsec needs a serious disruption at this point, a power vacuum on par with a singularity itself.

At any rate, either CCP takes care of the problem en masse and without any regard to who is doing it (RMTing and breaking EULA), or it becomes akin to the War on Drugs, completely ineffectual and a total drain of resources that does nothing to curb the corruption inherent in the system.

As for insinuations...given how jacked in most of the player base is to the goings-on in game and the who's who, do insinuations really have to be made?
"If."
Jita Alt666
#80 - 2012-01-17 01:17:00 UTC
The problem in developing a game that utilises player vs player intrigue and meta gaming in a single shard environment that appeals to individuals who find numbers and statistics more appealing than actual face to face interaction is that the consumer will fail to differentiate between in game relationships of characters and the out of game relationships held by the real life individuals who own the in game characters.

Grammar wept.