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The whole "I can hold 12 crystals + what's in the strips" is only in the event of NEW crystals. The REALITY is that you normally run with USED crystals (some run them till they pop, some don't).

When you hit the belt with crystals that are damaged, you automatically need to have spares on hand since they 'could' pop at any time. This immediately reduces your overall fleet effectiveness - and in the end, that's all that matters for everyone involved - how effective can you be (in PvP terms, it's the same as being able to be setup to blow up your opponents before they can blow you up).

The lame argument about "just have someone bring you crystals" is all about "kicking the can down the street" to avoid the issue and a proper solution. Instead of throwing out propsed solutions, they cling to it because they don't have a solution, won't admin they're wrong, or won't listen to proposed solutions by others. Eventually, yes, you'll need crystals / ammo brought to you in any fleet op that lasts for an extended period of time.

Do you need a zillion crystals? No. That's the Skiff & Macks job now with the current changes.
- A PvP ship can carry ammo for 100% of their intended target ranges.
- The "best" yield Barge can carry ammo (crystals) for 25% of their intended targets.

This is not about carrying a zillion crystals - it is, and always will be, about carrying enough crystals with spares to be efficient.

As has been suggested numerous times by several individuals:
1. Cargoholds should be sized per ship based on number of strips
2. Crystal sizes should be further reduced (I've seen 5m3 & 10m3 as good proposed #'s)
3. You should be able to carry an entire Barge fit in the Cargohold (e.g. strips, crystals, rigs & other mods).

For any specialized ship to not have the basic ability to hold its own is just a precursor to the nerfs to come as it shows the mindset that is in place for this 'tiericide' that's going on.

The moment you start to think "outside the box" (e.g. low-sec, null-sec, wh space), you will find that this argument will carry no weight anymore.

If you refer to an example of a REAL belt op (and a small one at that), you will begin to understand the nature of true fleet & self sufficiency within a fleet.


People, in general, need to stop thinking that everyone only uses the Hulk "solo", or "afk" - I certainly don't - and many others do not. The Hulk never was designed to be a solomobile - it was only misused as such (with great success, I might add).

Get out of High Sec and your entire thought process on how things work -- will change for the better.

Hey, waste of time for you, just more mins for me.

If you want to respawn the belt, you clear out everything, even the spud and omber. I know for you high sec guys, that's a foreign concept, as your belts respawn every morning at downtime.

I always use 3 of the same crystals on rocks, its far less clicking/dragging to empty the cargo bay every 104 seconds.

The new limitation will force people to hit different rocks at the same time as crystals get used up with no spares to be had on hand and thus creating more micromanagement.

Having to wait for someone to bring a replacement, or having to warp out of the belt to restock just creates mining inefficiency, thus taking away the bonus the hulk has for being the best mining barge in the game.

So your complaint is that now you have to play the game while playing the game? Im so sorry, life must be so rough for you.

Ok, sarcasm aside, CCP is now making you work for your max yield wheras before it wasnt hardly any work at all. yes, this might be a bit complicated for someone running >3 accounts but thats the price you pay for wanting max yield.

Ive discovered that when two people are arguing, the person who is right usually argues the points, and the person who is wrong usually attacks the other person

im arguing that the requested change is completely unnecessary and dumbs the game down for people.

Does it effect the way I mine? no, does it effect my experience in game? absolutely!

The more the game caters to dumb people, the more dumb people I have to put up with.

it would be an insult if it werent the unambiguous truth.

removing decisions in order to make the game easier dumbs the game down by definition.

insult . . . you keep using that word, i do not think it means what you think it means . . .

One other possible solution would simply be to give players the CHOICE -- and remember, this expansion was supposed to be about forcing miners to make choices -- to accept a vastly reduced ore bay in return for a modest increase in cargo hold size. That's pretty much the tradeoff that I had to make for null sec mining before this patch was released. I carried a large number of crystals, and had to accept the fact that I didn't have enough space left over to handle a full 3-laser cycle of ore.

The tiny ore bay wouldn't make the Hulk any less of a fleet ship. If anything, the need to constantly keep filling the jet can makes it rely more (and not less) on haulers.

But you know what? It won't happen. In the pages and pages of discussion about this patch, we've had zero developer interest in discussing things. They are hellbent and committed to making mining less fun, less interactive, and even more AFK than it used to be.

I'm a miner. They look great to me.