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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

First post First post First post
Author
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#821 - 2012-08-09 20:48:09 UTC
LuNaRiAn SeRpEnT wrote:
How do any of the avatar changes change the gameplay even slightly?


Well, it does if your avatar is important for your gameplay experience... I don't expect everyone to undertsand this, though.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#822 - 2012-08-09 20:58:22 UTC
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
I don't really see why people insist so much on that devblog - CCP doesn't really have anything to win by getting people's hopes up for something that may or may not be delivered in 1 - 2 years.

We had a few of such "long-term" blogs during the last year (null-sec revamp & tiericide off the top of my head) and response to them was very positive at first but turned sour (to the point that CCP would probably have been better off not publishing them at all) after just a few months.

12+ months from the point that management gives a "go ahead" decision and it is uncertain whether management actually wants to give green light or not... you are just asking CCP to provide another cross that we can crucify them on 3-6 months after the devblog has been published.

There also is a very obvious "office politics" angle to this - there is a fine line between "just trying to gauge player interest" (which is very important & valuable work) and "rallying angry players to bypass regular decision processes and pressure management into allocating more resources to my pet project".
Rank and file developers banding together with users against management is absolutely poisonous to any company as both devs and users have only very limited knowledge of the overall strategic plans and restrictions that influence management decisions and it is all too easy to rally a pitchfork carrying mob because "management is obviously wrong and ignores me".

CCP Bayesian wrote:
Keep on being vocal about what you want to see happening in EVE.

We're not stopping work on anything, just not allowed to talk as openly as we have been and would like to about what we have been working on.

Is this still on the "gauging interest" side of the line?


Maybe its time ,that management will give us a reason why some decisions are made,so the pitchforks don,t have to come out ?

But they can,t ,there is no reason not to show your customer base ,what they can do with the tech they are using .
The same tech we use to play this game.
the same tech that enables something that was talked about years by ccp .Did the devs bypassed management when they talked about ambulation?


R.S.I2014

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#823 - 2012-08-09 21:02:31 UTC
LuNaRiAn SeRpEnT wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
It haves the same goal as learning to make up your avatar: personal rewards, in the wide sense of the word.


Ok, maybe... but only to a certain point.


Of course. This is why I've been subbing and unsubbing my accounts since past october.



How do any of the avatar changes change the gameplay even slightly?


Does not change anything to gameplay ,same as shipspinning.
it just simply adds a lot to the game and who knows it could add some extra gameplay

R.S.I2014

Red Maiden
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#824 - 2012-08-09 22:16:28 UTC
I docked the other day and entered CQ. It had been quite a while since I had done so, but was glad I did. I had forgotten how...beautiful it is. I stayed there for a while going through my ships and walking around, admiring the scenery. As much as the vocal minority bang their drums against Incarna, the CQ really is well done for what it is.

Having an avatar and CQ adds a lot to the immersion of the game, which is important to me. I imagine it does the same for new players. I don't plan to go back to just the ship view, and look forward to CCP expanding on WiS in the future.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#825 - 2012-08-09 22:38:07 UTC
I agree. Also the pilot I play on most is female and looking at her is more pleasing to the eye than her Domi.

This is why I and many others would like to see some sort of multi-avatar area opened up, even if it would have meaningful play only for the role players. Of course bars with gambling would be nice too, and add more game play options.

And we still all wonder how close CCP got to being able to release all that before the summer of 2011 happened, and how close they are now given continued avatar development by the WoD team.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Flamespar
WarRavens
#826 - 2012-08-10 01:25:58 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
CCP Bayesian, are you able to tell us what happened to the Tattoos that we were meant to be getting as part of Inferno?


We didn't promise it for Inferno (at least as far as I know and can find out about) but in the thread on the Character Creator changes for Inferno CCP karkur stated:
Quote:
There are 15 sleeve tattoos, and you will be able to apply a tattoo to one or both arms (doesn't have to be the same one). I don't know when they will be available, but we are working on it.


That's still the case.


Actually I'm not sure where I got the idea from either.

I guess we're a bit desperate for some good news regarding Incarna in this thread. The little bits and pieces that have ended up on Tranquility are great don't get me wrong.

But you can't live on breadcrumbs alone.

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#827 - 2012-08-10 03:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
I hate to be the guy who throws sand in the ointment (actually that's a lie but anyway...) but I thought I'd inject another player perspective. I don't know thing one about Team Avatar save the fact that they are actually looking at some awesome new gameplay. What I do know as a long-time eve player is that when I started playing eve the "Jove" were real and being mentioned at fanfest for possible future inclusion, which in hindsight, has never been seriously considered. CCP like to promise the future... that's for sure. So lets take a look at the long history of ambulation.

f'n 2006! I just got here and CCP put out a devblog about walking in stations (it's still posted here)

f'n 2008. Time to get excited? Ten Ton Hammer article on the "current" state of ambulation.

f'n 2010 - NOW it's time to get excited? Right? Here's a Massively article to get you pumped up.

2012. Here we are. Playing for six years looking forward to Incarna... and all I got was this lousy sofa. I'm not even allowed out of my room?! I'm a grown a** man! You can't ground me CCP!

It's BS. CCP needs to reach down, grab hold, and start developing this thing. Incarna as it stands is a stupid joke... and it's not even that funny. Yah there's potential... yah it could be very cool... but when it comes to follow-through CCP's track record is pretty bad.

I guess the question I have is on a scale of one to ten... one being 'nevergonnahappen' and 10 being 'we just got the green light here's your blog and our plan'... what are the odds this is actually going to happen?

I'm so sick to death of CCP's soon™ vaporware.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Ghazu
#828 - 2012-08-10 03:34:08 UTC
Thanks for digging that up that 2006 devblog Gogela. They might as well repost it for the whiners in 2012.

Also, no dancing not ever woot!

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#829 - 2012-08-10 06:11:41 UTC
Gogela wrote:
What I do know as a long-time eve player is that when I started playing eve the "Jove" were real and being mentioned at fanfest for possible future inclusion, which in hindsight, has never been seriously considered.


THe Jobe were never on the table in any 'serious' way, to my knowledge. They're simply too powerful, lore-wise. They'd either have to be impossible for players to defeat, or weakened to the point where the lore about them being 'advanced' flies out the window.

I'd like to see the Door open one day; I'd much rather that they take the time to do it right, though.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#830 - 2012-08-10 06:12:58 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Also, no dancing not ever woot!


...where's the fun in that? Sad

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#831 - 2012-08-10 06:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Gogela wrote:
It's BS. CCP needs to reach down, grab hold, and start developing this thing.

It was probably said already, but I'd say again.
Fear not, they will, CCP just don't have a choice. They need this thing for WoD. They stated that Incarna is but a derpy prototype of what they need, but they still need it.
And then, there's not reason not to include that in EVE. You see, CQ is the first thing new player see, and that affects first impression a lot. I got to EVE right after Inferno launch and I know that it's impressive. Distracts a lot from overwhelming amount of buttons and windows, for just enough time to realize that it's not that superflous and scary after all Smile
Talk about attracting not repelling new players.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#832 - 2012-08-10 06:56:51 UTC
Gogela wrote:
I hate to be the guy who throws sand in the ointment (actually that's a lie but anyway...) but I thought I'd inject another player perspective. I don't know thing one about Team Avatar save the fact that they are actually looking at some awesome new gameplay. What I do know as a long-time eve player is that when I started playing eve the "Jove" were real and being mentioned at fanfest for possible future inclusion, which in hindsight, has never been seriously considered. CCP like to promise the future... that's for sure. So lets take a look at the long history of ambulation.

f'n 2006! I just got here and CCP put out a devblog about walking in stations (it's still posted here)

f'n 2008. Time to get excited? Ten Ton Hammer article on the "current" state of ambulation.

f'n 2010 - NOW it's time to get excited? Right? Here's a Massively article to get you pumped up.

2012. Here we are. Playing for six years looking forward to Incarna... and all I got was this lousy sofa. I'm not even allowed out of my room?! I'm a grown a** man! You can't ground me CCP!

It's BS. CCP needs to reach down, grab hold, and start developing this thing. Incarna as it stands is a stupid joke... and it's not even that funny. Yah there's potential... yah it could be very cool... but when it comes to follow-through CCP's track record is pretty bad.

I guess the question I have is on a scale of one to ten... one being 'nevergonnahappen' and 10 being 'we just got the green light here's your blog and our plan'... what are the odds this is actually going to happen?

I'm so sick to death of CCP's soon™ vaporware.


Pretty interesting 2006 devblog, they had it right a mere 6 years ago. Anyway I disagree on dancing, I am elite, and I want to bloody waltz with some other elite. Haven't you seen the Imperials have fun in 'Legend of the galactic heroes'? That stuff is exactly what we need for the after battle. Sophisticate, decadent, we're billionaires and we got better things to do than shoot our faces in person, away from half a million tons of safety and a thousand expendable souls ready to be wasted for us and instead of us.

But then it's impossible to simply meet each other in person (oh my, what would happen? Players asking for more? Players inviting their friends to come and try the game and blast them off with the best 3D avatars in industry? And then... nothing else?).

You know, it pretty feels like CCP painted themselves in a dead zone: if they don't fix FiS they don't have a future, if they don't develop WiS they don't have a future, and they can't fix FiS and develop WiS at the same time. Pick your poison.

So they're taking the only road: they choose the slow death of not developing WiS to avoid the fast death of not fixing FiS, and hope for the best from DUST 514 and getting the resources they need to start gaining subscribers again... not with the same old crap, but with something different thta exploits a different niche.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#833 - 2012-08-10 07:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Agreed... also, I wanna be able to hit a flashy club and shake it to some dark rythums... the game has a sagnificant dark space opera/cyberpunk vibe to it, and I wanna see some more of that, for pete's sake!

...sadly, I think CCP has pulled the resources they would need, and put them into World of Darkness and DUST. All we can hope is that these projects work out...

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRtYuG6MgX8 Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#834 - 2012-08-10 07:15:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Gogela wrote:
I hate to be the guy who throws sand in the ointment (actually that's a lie but anyway...) but I thought I'd inject another player perspective. I don't know thing one about Team Avatar save the fact that they are actually looking at some awesome new gameplay. What I do know as a long-time eve player is that when I started playing eve the "Jove" were real and being mentioned at fanfest for possible future inclusion, which in hindsight, has never been seriously considered. CCP like to promise the future... that's for sure. So lets take a look at the long history of ambulation.

f'n 2006! I just got here and CCP put out a devblog about walking in stations (it's still posted here)

f'n 2008. Time to get excited? Ten Ton Hammer article on the "current" state of ambulation.

f'n 2010 - NOW it's time to get excited? Right? Here's a Massively article to get you pumped up.

2012. Here we are. Playing for six years looking forward to Incarna... and all I got was this lousy sofa. I'm not even allowed out of my room?! I'm a grown a** man! You can't ground me CCP!

It's BS. CCP needs to reach down, grab hold, and start developing this thing. Incarna as it stands is a stupid joke... and it's not even that funny. Yah there's potential... yah it could be very cool... but when it comes to follow-through CCP's track record is pretty bad.

I guess the question I have is on a scale of one to ten... one being 'nevergonnahappen' and 10 being 'we just got the green light here's your blog and our plan'... what are the odds this is actually going to happen?

I'm so sick to death of CCP's soon™ vaporware.


Pretty interesting 2006 devblog, they had it right a mere 6 years ago. Anyway I disagree on dancing, I am elite, and I want to bloody waltz with some other elite. Haven't you seen the Imperials have fun in 'Legend of the galactic heroes'? That stuff is exactly what we need for the after battle. Sophisticate, decadent, we're billionaires and we got better things to do than shoot our faces in person, away from half a million tons of safety and a thousand expendable souls ready to be wasted for us and instead of us.

But then it's impossible to simply meet each other in person (oh my, what would happen? Players asking for more? Players inviting their friends to come and try the game and blast them off with the best 3D avatars in industry? And then... nothing else?).

You know, it pretty feels like CCP painted themselves in a dead zone: if they don't fix FiS they don't have a future, if they don't develop WiS they don't have a future, and they can't fix FiS and develop WiS at the same time. Pick your poison.

So they're taking the only road: they choose the slow death of not developing WiS to avoid the fast death of not fixing FiS, and hope for the best from DUST 514 and getting the resources they need to start gaining subscribers again... not with the same old crap, but with something different thta exploits a different niche.

"and they can't fix FiS and develop WiS at the same time."

Well that's the thing of it, isn't it? They can and they have to. I have a lot vested in this game. I've pulled a lot of BS and done everything but mine... mining is lame... Big smileBig smile ...but if they want to have the game take off they really do have to do both, don't they? WoD is sexy and cool... they could work that into eve if so inclined. We'd love it. The problem is "corporate" is clearly run by absolute idiots. We've all encountered the type in our day to day... bureaucrats better at getting promoted than leading or doing their fuc**** job... but that appears to be who is in charge. They don't care about the product... they care about their next promotion. There is vision within CCP. That's why we are here. Who's calling the shots? Not anyone of consequence. Hopefully CCP gets it together soon. There's a lot happening right now in game design. Every year it gets easier to eclipse eve. CCP better sh** or get off the pot... because the next big game is going to take them out if they don't. I mean... I'll be here playing eve on the day the servers shut down. They can let the game go to sh** and I'll still play. ...at least until I find a better game. ...at which point Gogela will trade his ships for other-game ships and call it good. The pressure is on... and it's only going to intensify every year. There is a great deal of pressure on CCP at this point in gaming history. I'm not convinced they see it. It doesn't matter ultimately though... I'm going to have fun regardless. I'd just rather that fun be had in this universe. ...but if not, maybe MSFT will come out with a Freelancer II, or maybe Bungie's Destiny will fill the gap. We'll see. Hope you pull a win out of you a** CCP.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#835 - 2012-08-10 07:15:54 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Sorry for the radio silence for the past couple of weeks, I've been variously ill, spraining ankles and on holiday.

I've got bad news about the devblog we promised. It's been swallowed by the black hole of corporateness and won't be seeing the light of day for the foreseeable future. The team have been as vocal as we can about the merits of putting it out but to no avail. We're continuing to try and work out a way of showing you work we're proud of and think you will like but for now our hands are completely tied. Sad



BUMMER Cry
CCP Bayesian
#836 - 2012-08-10 09:11:13 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Bayesian
Flamespar wrote:
Actually I'm not sure where I got the idea from either.

I guess we're a bit desperate for some good news regarding Incarna in this thread. The little bits and pieces that have ended up on Tranquility are great don't get me wrong.

But you can't live on breadcrumbs alone.


True, in terms of where we are it is just after the big summer exodus in the office and internally we're marshaling together the plan for the next few months in terms of what we will put together and release. Sleeve tattoos are definitely on the list for consideration with a big star and lots of arrows pointing at it. When we know precisely we'll let you guys know.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#837 - 2012-08-10 09:44:31 UTC
Shepard Book wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Sorry for the radio silence for the past couple of weeks, I've been variously ill, spraining ankles and on holiday.

I've got bad news about the devblog we promised. It's been swallowed by the black hole of corporateness and won't be seeing the light of day for the foreseeable future. The team have been as vocal as we can about the merits of putting it out but to no avail. We're continuing to try and work out a way of showing you work we're proud of and think you will like but for now our hands are completely tied. Sad



BUMMER Cry


super sad : ( did the CSm respond positive to the video? well at least fight for a fanfest reveal. I can't believe weren't not going to see the video : (

But hey thanks for braving this thread and giving us some answers. o7 fly safe mate

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#838 - 2012-08-10 10:13:24 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Shepard Book wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Sorry for the radio silence for the past couple of weeks, I've been variously ill, spraining ankles and on holiday.

I've got bad news about the devblog we promised. It's been swallowed by the black hole of corporateness and won't be seeing the light of day for the foreseeable future. The team have been as vocal as we can about the merits of putting it out but to no avail. We're continuing to try and work out a way of showing you work we're proud of and think you will like but for now our hands are completely tied. Sad



BUMMER Cry


super sad : ( did the CSm respond positive to the video? well at least fight for a fanfest reveal. I can't believe weren't not going to see the video : (

But hey thanks for braving this thread and giving us some answers. o7 fly safe mate



Too bad hey can,t discus the reason why the blog is not coming to the forums

Hey Unifex ,i bet you can


Give us a very good reason , why?

R.S.I2014

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#839 - 2012-08-10 10:28:26 UTC
Quote:
You know, it pretty feels like CCP painted themselves in a dead zone: if they don't fix FiS they don't have a future, if they don't develop WiS they don't have a future, and they can't fix FiS and develop WiS at the same time. Pick your poison.


WiS has no effect on EVE's future in any way. That's why it has been sidelined, 3D avatars are not mandatory in a game revolving around flying in space.

.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#840 - 2012-08-10 10:43:39 UTC
Roime wrote:
Quote:
You know, it pretty feels like CCP painted themselves in a dead zone: if they don't fix FiS they don't have a future, if they don't develop WiS they don't have a future, and they can't fix FiS and develop WiS at the same time. Pick your poison.


WiS has no effect on EVE's future in any way. That's why it has been sidelined, 3D avatars are not mandatory in a game revolving around flying in space.



Hmmm ,if you mean that this game is already a great game as it is ,yes then you are right

But the addition of WIS would make it even greater.
Too bad they only give the walking features to Dust ,a console game that should add something to EvE .

Maybe this wasn,t a CCP decision about the blog ,but one from Sony

Most of the recourses from CCP must be at Dust now .
They just gave all Eve subscribers a beta key .


R.S.I2014