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Missions & Complexes

 
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Regarding AFK Complex Farming

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Anslo
Scope Works
#21 - 2012-08-09 12:15:44 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Octoven wrote:
As I stated on the general forums topic on this subject, it seems pretty inappropriate and immature on sreegs part to make a news article about this when it is hardly an automated action. I can sit there and let the sentries do the same damn thing and I will be flagged because I am at my computer or not??

Bot mining is one thing and using an automated program is as well, but your drones only kill so much and then you have to warp to the next room, you dont continue to constantly generate money. It is a fixed amount and once it has been completed you just sit there waiting for someone to gank you or you come back.

He isn't talking about missions with rooms or people going AFK.

He is directly speaking too a certain type of Cosmos Complex where players are warping their ship in with an AFK Tank dropping 5 Sentries then putting remote reps on them then leaving their computers downtime to downtime.

At least with Mining you have to empty stuff or warp back to the station. Missions you have to pick up a new mission or change rooms. This is 100% 24 hour AFK.


CCP designed it that way. Working as intended.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#22 - 2012-08-09 12:16:43 UTC
Pisov viet wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Pisov viet wrote:

Obviously it's not about belts or static complexs in highsec, as both of these only contains frigates, and the income from these is ridiculous. I'd be surprised if you'd get 10m a day killing every frigates of a static complexs.


Obviously you haven't found the ones that have battleships in them.

Then MAYBE the problem is CCP placing NPC battleships to kill in highsec.

I dont really enjoy reading that CCP starts deciding which way of killing NPCs is allowed and which one isnt.


Agreed.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
#23 - 2012-08-09 12:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
Think of a guy panning for gold. Maybe he discovers a nugget, maybe two. One day he finds something big. He makes a lot of money. Other people hear about it. They come too, to try to find some gold. Eventually, the word really gets out, and so many people get involved that the rush becomes a flood, and the whole situation deteriorates... fighting, looting, mayhem...opportunity. Perhaps one man or group finds a way to rise above the rest, become wealthy, powerful. Perhaps a dynasty is created.
Rewind a little bit. In Eve, the promise of a sandbox allows this adventure to be on the list of possible outcomes. Or does it? When the afk police step in, police who need to justify their existence in order to keep their jobs, is there still any real adventure going to be left? When you know if you find something awesomely cool and easy to do, that any potential profit will be beaten out of you by billy-club wielding afk-detection programs, will you still feel the thrill of the unknown?
This afk slope was slippery to begin with, but it's getting steeper and slicker every day. Why not retool the afk police, and teach them to find ways to offset man's natural penchant for exploiting his environment? Build in tangible responses from that enviroment to throttle back the perceived exploitation. It is a hard but noble road to master the old programming, repair it, enhance it. The code has it's own subtle consciousness and personality, don't you think?
If you can do this, then instead of lowering a banhammer of doom from the Gods, you will be keeping the adventure alive - for everyone in Eve.
Alara IonStorm
#24 - 2012-08-09 12:18:08 UTC
Anslo wrote:

CCP designed it that way. Working as intended.

There is letter in the OP by CCP that said it was a mistake. That is literally the opposite of working as intended.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-08-09 12:18:46 UTC
Anslo wrote:
It's the action of telling players how to play I have a bigger issue with then what they actually acted against.


"playing the game" is apparently leaving a ship in a complex to automatically kill NPCs while you're not playing the game

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
coolzero
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-08-09 12:18:53 UTC  |  Edited by: coolzero
Roxwar wrote:
coolzero wrote:


WILL THAT MEAN AFK CLOAKING IN A SYSTEM TO DISRUPT OPERATIONS WILL BE BANNABLE ALSO........


You dont make isk by sitting AFK cloaked all day, so i'd say no.



then again then they shouldnt have included this line
Quote:
then going to do your laundry or perhaps watch a 24 hour Lazytown marathon. While this activity does not necessitate the use of a 3rd party program


and yes afk cloaking CAN give you a income mate....you have ill guess not ever see people come into the null sec system and have in their bio " if you want me to leave send 1 bill isk to me and ill leave or else ill camp this system for weeks on end" see thats a income


again ccp is doing things the stupid way...

they made the eve cliant into a bot themself....sentrys will switch target automaticly(as programmed)

simple fix....turn automatic switching target off with drones.....

can i have a plex now for this simple tip as reward shees
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#27 - 2012-08-09 12:19:29 UTC
Fozzy Dorsai wrote:
We really need to get some clarification on this from CCP. Perhaps this is some special case situation, but since I do not do complexes the differentiation isn't obvious to me. It just seems to me that sitting my Rattlesnake in a mission, letting the little sentries clean up a room, and going to the kitchen to get a bite to eat is now a banned activity as I am generating income without being at the game. And as has been pointed out, if you can tank the rats, then you can just find a large roid, point you laser at it, hit a button and do AFK mining and then starting a load of laundry is again generating income without being at the game.
While I doubt either of these activities are on the ban list, I'd really like to see a blue post saying so.


You're doing a particular mission AFK - that's been pretty normal for Rattlesnakes/Domis/Ishtars for sometime now.

The difference is that your mission will end, not continually respawn and make isk for hours on end.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-08-09 12:20:10 UTC
coolzero wrote:
again ccp is doing things the stupid way...

they made the eve cliant into a bot themself....sentrys will switch target automaticly(as programmed)

simple fix....turn automatic switching target off with drones.....

can i have a plex now for this simple tip as reward shees


"drones work this way" doesn't mean "sure you can go AFK for 23 hours while having the game do all the work for you"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Jake Shepherd
Causality Crew LTD
#29 - 2012-08-09 12:20:24 UTC
Personally I do not think this is wrong or is not something ccp should be flagging your account over it. And I do not see the logic of giving miners a 45 min ice ship then punishing PVE people for doing the same thing
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#30 - 2012-08-09 12:21:13 UTC
Anslo wrote:

It's the action of telling players how to play I have a bigger issue with then what they actually acted against.


Are you stupid or something?

There have been rules for "how to play the game" from the beginning and they have been changes constantly.

Its their game. They dictate the rules. Thats how this works. Even in a sandbox, there are still game mechanics and rules we play by.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-08-09 12:23:02 UTC
Jake Shepherd wrote:
Personally I do not think this is wrong or is not something ccp should be flagging your account over it. And I do not see the logic of giving miners a 45 min ice ship then punishing PVE people for doing the same thing


the difference is that the game doesn't have a mechanic that automatically puts mined ore into an orca with a magic bottomless ore hold

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Dregol
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-08-09 12:23:31 UTC
Pisov viet wrote:

Then MAYBE the problem is CCP placing NPC battleships to kill in highsec.
.


Pretty much just this. It'd be great if while "fixing" these complexes if they "accidentally" moved all level 3/4 agents to low/null sec.
coolzero
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-08-09 12:25:22 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
coolzero wrote:
again ccp is doing things the stupid way...

they made the eve cliant into a bot themself....sentrys will switch target automaticly(as programmed)

simple fix....turn automatic switching target off with drones.....

can i have a plex now for this simple tip as reward shees


"drones work this way" doesn't mean "sure you can go AFK for 23 hours while having the game do all the work for you"



because you cant....... once the site has been done you will have to move to the next...you can only do that if a you use a bot(not allowed) or b are alive but just also doing some stuff in the house.

that drones do things this way is then CCP fault...i dont see my guns/missles switch target on their own.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-08-09 12:27:15 UTC
coolzero wrote:
because you cant....... once the site has been done you will have to move to the next...you can only do that if a you use a bot(not allowed) or b are alive but just also doing some stuff in the house.

that drones do things this way is then CCP fault...i dont see my guns/missles switch target on their own.


The difference is that that is not how this particular complex works. It continuously spawns NPCs. It's a static, it doesn't despawn.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
coolzero
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-08-09 12:27:15 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Jake Shepherd wrote:
Personally I do not think this is wrong or is not something ccp should be flagging your account over it. And I do not see the logic of giving miners a 45 min ice ship then punishing PVE people for doing the same thing


the difference is that the game doesn't have a mechanic that automatically puts mined ore into an orca with a magic bottomless ore hold


it does now at list in a limited way..... mack have 31000m3 ore hold.....this will still take some time to fill while you can go afk while ice mining.
Zwo Zateki
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-08-09 12:28:28 UTC
WTF seriously?

Drones were designed to switch targets automatically. I reckon the difference between AFK farming and legitimate plexing is whether you are staring at nebulae or not.

Bullshit.

http://cvmkr.com/R4JG
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-08-09 12:28:28 UTC
coolzero wrote:
it does now at list in a limited way..... mack have 31000m3 ore hold.....this will still take some time to fill while you can go afk while ice mining.


And that requires you to return to your client and move ore to an Orca or a station hangar. That is hardly a problem compared to the mechanics enabling you to farm ISK totally AFK until downtime.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-08-09 12:29:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
So let me get this straight:

1. CCP designed the plexes, their systems and mechanics.
2. CCP designed sentry drones, passive tanks, and other game mechanics.
3. Players make use of these mechanics, and get punitive action taken against them if they do it too well?

What kind of sense does that make?

When you (CCP) were designing plexes, did it not occur to you that this might happen?
When you (CCP) were designing drones, did it not occur to you that with their automatic AI this might happen?
When you (CCP) designed the passive tank, did it not occur to you that this might happen also?

And both plexes and drones have been in the game for how long?

My gut reaction to this is that it is complete bullc**p. I mean no offense, but as long as the player isn't using macros, bots or third party programs, they are making use of game mechanics and nothing else. If game mechanics are the problem, it is YOUR (CCP) problem, not the player's. If anyone should be punished, it should be the individual(s) responsible for designing these systems.

EDIT: And speaking of plexes. How about the recently added FW plexes that people solo in a Vigil, without even fitting any guns? It's not like you weren't warned this was going to happen. But you did it anyway. I suppose that's players' fault too? Are we going to be punished for doing it soon as well? Really CCP? Really?! Very disappointed in you.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-08-09 12:29:40 UTC
Zwo Zateki wrote:
WTF seriously?

Drones were designed to switch targets automatically. I reckon the difference between AFK farming and legitimate plexing is whether you are staring at nebulae or not.

Bullshit.


I'm fairly sure that the game designers didn't intend for these two particular things (complexes that continuously spawn rats in a given room + aggressive drones) to work together in such a way that it allows completely and utterly AFK ISK farming.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Jake Shepherd
Causality Crew LTD
#40 - 2012-08-09 12:29:47 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Jake Shepherd wrote:
Personally I do not think this is wrong or is not something ccp should be flagging your account over it. And I do not see the logic of giving miners a 45 min ice ship then punishing PVE people for doing the same thing


the difference is that the game doesn't have a mechanic that automatically puts mined ore into an orca with a magic bottomless ore hold



I have never do it myself other than letting my drone clear a room on a mission while i went to the other of a few bit.

that's true it not end less but that a game mechanic problem and they should just re-program the new spawns to go for the ships with small mass and is not something that the player them self should be flagged for