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New modules tooltips ....

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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#141 - 2012-08-08 23:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
CCP karkur wrote:
I have not checked it in yet, but tonight I implemented a 1 second delay on the tooltips. I think it works great, and to be honest if we go with that, I don't see that we need the enable/disable option... tomorrow morning I'll show it to Soundwave and some other cool people and see what they think.

The tooltips are bigger than the old ones, but not that much bigger... we did talk about whether we should put more delay on them, but then because of consistency and stuff, and the fact that the old tooltips never seemed to be a problem, we decided not to do anything for the time being. The new tooltips pop in just like the old ones did, but I think the new ones maybe just demand more attention with the images and all.

I (and many more people) went on vacation, but I was still reading the forums and replying, so it annoys me a bit when some people say we don't read the feedback.
Yes, there were a few people saying they wanted more delay and to hide them, but as we all know, people have different opinions and others liked it. If I had gotten the feeling so many people would be this mad, I would have hit pause on my (well-deserved) vacation and gone to work to make any changes needed.

So can we just be happy that we are fixing the issues?P

(edit: and Cray47 is correct, there is an alignment issue with the "max flight range" text because I accidentally added an extra linebreak Oops)


I think a delay is a healthy alternative to the code bloat that options creates. Rock on.

Also, come on everyone. Buy a Naga and stop clicking FFS.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#142 - 2012-08-08 23:35:06 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Jess Maine wrote:
Is it REALLY that hard to code an option to turn them on and off? Really?

Nope... it seemed to be pretty easy when I added it earlier todayP
But, if we don't need it, there is no need to clutter the settings and code with it.

Let's not panic people... we are looking into this Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#143 - 2012-08-08 23:37:20 UTC
FFS...

Gas this thread.

Please?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Blane Xero
The Firestorm Cartel
#144 - 2012-08-08 23:39:37 UTC
I don't care if this post gets nuked.

Karkur you are such a god-damn cocktease.

Resident Haruhiist since December 2008.

Laying claim to Out of Pod Experience since 2007, plain and simple. Keep the trash out of [u]Out Of Pod Experience[/u], If it's EVE Related or deserves a Lock, it does not belong here.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#145 - 2012-08-08 23:44:05 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Jess Maine wrote:
Is it REALLY that hard to code an option to turn them on and off? Really?

Nope... it seemed to be pretty easy when I added it earlier todayP
But, if we don't need it, there is no need to clutter the settings and code with it.

Let's not panic people... we are looking into this Smile



no panic,, but please add that code. i really do not need to see the same message for hours in a fleet fight

OMG when can i get a pic here
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#146 - 2012-08-08 23:44:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Spank
CCP should try running an active-module heavy ship solo in PVP where they have to monitor heat damage, ammo/charge use and cycle timers and see if they dont think an option to disable this is necessary.

It most definitely is.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#147 - 2012-08-08 23:48:43 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
CCP should try running an active-module heavy ship solo in PVP where they have to monitor heat damage, ammo/charge use and cycle timers and see if they dont think an option to disable this is necessary.

It most definitely is.


The thing about it is that if they give you the option to turn them off, you won't get any tooltips. This includes the exact readout for heat damage. In that case, you gain no benefit from moving your mouse over the module - and you should stop clicking.

In the case where they add a delay, the information you want will require holding the mouse still over the module for a long time. Thus, any information you wanted to get from moving your mouse over the module is mostly useless or unavailable. And you should stop clicking.

In the case where they leave it with no delay, you get the information immediately but have to deal with a popup. And you should stop clicking.

Basically, stop clicking.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#148 - 2012-08-08 23:56:43 UTC
stop clicking sounds very amusing and trite but it serves no practical purpose when you rely on clicks to time your modules...

you could suggest "keep your mouse off the buttons till you need to press them" but it shows a lack of understanding of just how much micro-management relies on instinct and reflex and not on concious cognitive processes.

When the UI works against your own natural intuition there is a problem.

This problem could easily be resolved by allowing options. You could also easily implement "none" "classic" and neo" style tooltips. I know this doesnt make sense in a designers sense but this is not just a UI for prettiness, it is a videogame where you need to be able to make quick decisions.

Again, in fleets this is often easy to pass off as unimportant but for those of us that work our damndest against larger numbers and cheap gang tactics it is imperative that we have no needless clutter getting in our way.

~elite PVP~ etc.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#149 - 2012-08-08 23:59:17 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
stop clicking sounds very amusing and trite but it serves no practical purpose when you rely on clicks to time your modules...

you could suggest "keep your mouse off the buttons till you need to press them" but it shows a lack of understanding of just how much micro-management relies on instinct and reflex and not on concious cognitive processes.

When the UI works against your own natural intuition there is a problem.

This problem could easily be resolved by allowing options. You could also easily implement "none" "classic" and neo" style tooltips. I know this doesnt make sense in a designers sense but this is not just a UI for prettiness, it is a videogame where you need to be able to make quick decisions.

Again, in fleets this is often easy to pass off as unimportant but for those of us that work our damndest against larger numbers and cheap gang tactics it is imperative that we have no needless clutter getting in our way.

~elite PVP~ etc.


No, I mean stop clicking the modules.

Ever.

Here: http://taugrim.com/2011/04/07/guide-to-strafing-movement-and-keybindings/

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#150 - 2012-08-09 00:02:25 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
I have not checked it in yet, but tonight I implemented a 1 second delay on the tooltips. I think it works great, and to be honest if we go with that, I don't see that we need the enable/disable option... tomorrow morning I'll show it to Soundwave and some other cool people and see what they think.

The tooltips are bigger than the old ones, but not that much bigger... we did talk about whether we should put more delay on them, but then because of consistency and stuff, and the fact that the old tooltips never seemed to be a problem, we decided not to do anything for the time being. The new tooltips pop in just like the old ones did, but I think the new ones maybe just demand more attention with the images and all.

I (and many more people) went on vacation, but I was still reading the forums and replying, so it annoys me a bit when some people say we don't read the feedback.
Yes, there were a few people saying they wanted more delay and to hide them, but as we all know, people have different opinions and others liked it. If I had gotten the feeling so many people would be this mad, I would have hit pause on my (well-deserved) vacation and gone to work to make any changes needed.

So can we just be happy that we are fixing the issues?P

(edit: and Cray47 is correct, there is an alignment issue with the "max flight range" text because I accidentally added an extra linebreak Oops)



Don't stress, awesomness is never easy.

Hope you enjoyed the vacay.

I think you need to make it 2 seconds. Just my input.

Did you see my demo image for my idea? Any consideration for that?

Where I am.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#151 - 2012-08-09 00:04:55 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

No, I mean stop clicking the modules.

Ever.


I know what you meant the first time and I disagree that it is viable on a heavily active modded ship.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#152 - 2012-08-09 00:27:20 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

No, I mean stop clicking the modules.

Ever.


I know what you meant the first time and I disagree that it is viable on a heavily active modded ship.


It works fine. I rarely click and frequently run 5+ modules actively.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#153 - 2012-08-09 00:29:50 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

No, I mean stop clicking the modules.

Ever.


I know what you meant the first time and I disagree that it is viable on a heavily active modded ship.


It works fine. I rarely click and frequently run 5+ modules actively.

-Liang



5+ is a dp frigate, I was thinking 8+, but everyone has their threshold anyway (uh, thats not smack, but you know what I mean).

the main point is, I would like to poise my click and not have a tooltip in the way, and to do that for all buttons, asking somone to memorise all keyboard shortcuts, when a visual layout is so much more intuitive, is too much to ask really... when you could easily implement an 'off' button' for those tooltips.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#154 - 2012-08-09 00:36:01 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:

5+ is a dp frigate, I was thinking 8+, but everyone has their threshold anyway (uh, thats not smack, but you know what I mean).

the main point is, I would like to poise my click and not have a tooltip in the way, and to do that for all buttons, asking somone to memorise all keyboard shortcuts, when a visual layout is so much more intuitive, is too much to ask really... when you could easily implement an 'off' button' for those tooltips.


I bought a Naga and the visual representation maps directly to my thumb.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
RAGE QU1T
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#155 - 2012-08-09 00:44:03 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Jess Maine wrote:
Is it REALLY that hard to code an option to turn them on and off? Really?

Nope... it seemed to be pretty easy when I added it earlier todayP
But, if we don't need it, there is no need to clutter the settings and code with it.

Let's not panic people... we are looking into this Smile





I think this is a great tool but, would it be possible to incorperate this tool in the fitting window??? i think it would be a great improvement for the fitting window by just hovering over the mods testing different fits.
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2012-08-09 00:46:49 UTC
Cray47 wrote:
they are too big, don't provide any useful information. What's even worse, they look bad (text<->picture alignment mismatch).



Ill take this over right clicking, scrolling, clicking, etc any day of the week.

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#157 - 2012-08-09 00:47:11 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
stop clicking sounds very amusing and trite but it serves no practical purpose when you rely on clicks to time your modules...

you could suggest "keep your mouse off the buttons till you need to press them" but it shows a lack of understanding of just how much micro-management relies on instinct and reflex and not on concious cognitive processes.

When the UI works against your own natural intuition there is a problem.

This problem could easily be resolved by allowing options. You could also easily implement "none" "classic" and neo" style tooltips. I know this doesnt make sense in a designers sense but this is not just a UI for prettiness, it is a videogame where you need to be able to make quick decisions.

Again, in fleets this is often easy to pass off as unimportant but for those of us that work our damndest against larger numbers and cheap gang tactics it is imperative that we have no needless clutter getting in our way.

~elite PVP~ etc.

Seconding this.

I actually don't want to consider the whole case as yet another sample of how clueless CCP is at small-scale PvP - introduction of ASB speaks for itself - but an alternative explanation is hardly possible.

Dudes, if you can't help us with proper PvP, at least don't ruin it completely by artificial stuff we don't want.

Finally, it's quite easy to get tonnes of positive feedback from hi-sec dwellers and alike. But is it really something meaningful? I don't think so.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#158 - 2012-08-09 00:55:46 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
...
...


The fact that either of you are clicking is shameful TBH. Your reaction times would be much faster if you used keybinds. Especially if you use the same keybinds across ships.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#159 - 2012-08-09 01:10:02 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
...
...


The fact that either of you are clicking is shameful TBH. Your reaction times would be much faster if you used keybinds. Especially if you use the same keybinds across ships.

As clearly seen in my movies, I use both ways. And I'd like to keep it the way it has always been.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2012-08-09 01:32:41 UTC
Cray47 wrote:
they are too big, don't provide any useful information. What's even worse, they look bad (text<->picture alignment mismatch).


can you disable tooltips?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

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