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New dev blog: Ship Balancing: Mining Barges

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Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#341 - 2012-08-08 07:29:07 UTC
Vanessa Vansen wrote:

- Rigs ... the ice / mercoxit rigs have calibration cost of 250 ... so you can either have a good ice miner or a good mercoxit miner. I don't like that I would prefer costs of 200 but at most one rig of a kind, so that you can use a single hulk for both instead of a hulk for ice and one for mercoxit ... yes, before you had to use 3 different ships for that but at that time the role was about what you mine ... now the role is how you mine (fleet / solo / tanky), so you should be able to fit one of each.
You could instead introduce a single rig with cost of 200, so that a pair of those rigs would grant that bonus to both ice and mercoxit mining


People keep on harping about this issue, before you had to have 3 ships and now you have to have 3 ships. It just happen that before the change you had a Skiff, a Mack and a Hulk and now you just have 3 of one type. I did not see any threads 4 miles long about how it was so unfair that they had to switch ships to mine ice ect so why is it an issue now. Just because the name of the ships are the same does not change the situation.

You could compare this to say a mission ship with CCC rigs to a Incursion/PVP ship with tanky or DPS rigs, if you want to fill multiple rolls get multiple ships.



Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#342 - 2012-08-08 07:56:54 UTC
Exhumers are still short of powergrid. The Hulk and Mack have three additional midslots over their T1 counterparts. All midslot fittings require at least 1MW (modified for skills) and therefore both the Mack and Hulk need an additional 3MW of PG.

The cargoholds, despite the reduction in crystal size, are still too small. The only container which can be used to seperate active and spare crystal sets are the smalls at present and that allows the Mackinaw only two sets of spare crystals (which is counter to its self-sufficiency ideal).
The need to increase cargo is made more significant by the potential of fitting ASBs and therefore of carrying cap booster charges as well as mining crystals.
An increase to 500m3 would allow a medium container to be used to seperate crystals while still limiting them, minimising the "overflow" from the ore bay and without the barges/exhumers treading on the toes of Vexors as haulers (yes, I don't buy the idea that they've been limited to stop them impinging on the role of ships which all start with a minimum of 3000m3 cargo).
kari bourza
Shield of Iron Crown
#343 - 2012-08-08 11:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: kari bourza
sound good
kyba
Das Angry Ilama
#344 - 2012-08-08 12:01:07 UTC
Fix the bloody huge spod rock in the hidden belts and replace it with something useful!
Or just get rid of it
marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#345 - 2012-08-08 12:37:59 UTC
Seems the Hi-sec Gankers get a kick in the nutz but other than that this update will make mining interesting for a few days as peeps strive to figure out what the hell the devs have actually done against what they have said they will do.

Few gripes though, Rigs...only T1 variant with no chance of players knocking up a T2 variant, Cal means you cannot add anything other that say a low end T1 Kinetic rig, still means Null sec miners will need cover for spawns, in short maintain one mining vessel on short yields just to tank rats or short the whole fleet to fit any sort of useful tank at all, so nothing has got any better there has it.

Ice mining appears on the face of it to have taken a huge hit unless were reading it wrong, two equals three, hows that work then, 6 blocks against four per cycle, wonder how many calculators took a trip to the wall trying to work that one out.

Poor attention to PG/CPU requirements, they say that they wanted to make mining vessels more resilient, but then come up short on what is needed to allow players to achieve this.

Cannot see anything here that really peaks interest, yes they have shuffled stuff around but in reality little will change for miners that run Null sec mining fleets except maybe there profits will fall and possibly it may be useful to run a skiff as tank, other than that it,s business as usual.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.
Jesspa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#346 - 2012-08-08 13:53:29 UTC
Mostly I'm ok with these changes, as a miner most of the time myself. However, it doesn't seem quite right that a Hulk, which will often be out mining for hours at a time as part of a big mining op, can't hold enough spare crystals to do that, whereas a Retriever of a Mackinaw, seemingly designed more for solo mining, can hold far more. I don't need a huge traditional cargo hold in my Hulk, but I don't think it's wrong to expect it to be able to carry more crystals than a Ret, and enough to keep me going on a long op.
phobos1
Globaltech Industries
#347 - 2012-08-08 14:34:47 UTC
I might just aswell get rid of my hulk now as a solo miner the Cargo Bay which I used too store ore in has been reduced by so much its not worth even trying too mine with it any more and the ore bay is like a glove box useless , once again CCP have screwed up big time !! thnx for ruining my player experience.
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#348 - 2012-08-08 14:49:44 UTC
phobos1 wrote:
I might just aswell get rid of my hulk now as a solo miner the Cargo Bay which I used too store ore in has been reduced by so much its not worth even trying too mine with it any more and the ore bay is like a glove box useless , once again CCP have screwed up big time !! thnx for ruining my player experience.


Your new mackinaw should out perform your old Hulk. Fewer trips to the station should make up for the yield difference.
Dave stark
#349 - 2012-08-08 14:54:51 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
phobos1 wrote:
I might just aswell get rid of my hulk now as a solo miner the Cargo Bay which I used too store ore in has been reduced by so much its not worth even trying too mine with it any more and the ore bay is like a glove box useless , once again CCP have screwed up big time !! thnx for ruining my player experience.


Your new mackinaw should out perform your old Hulk. Fewer trips to the station should make up for the yield difference.


it won't, unless you only mine for an hour or so a day... the hulk's yield bonus, even swapping to a mammoth or an itty to haul will still give you more ore/hour.
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#350 - 2012-08-08 14:58:49 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
phobos1 wrote:
I might just aswell get rid of my hulk now as a solo miner the Cargo Bay which I used too store ore in has been reduced by so much its not worth even trying too mine with it any more and the ore bay is like a glove box useless , once again CCP have screwed up big time !! thnx for ruining my player experience.


Your new mackinaw should out perform your old Hulk. Fewer trips to the station should make up for the yield difference.


it won't, unless you only mine for an hour or so a day... the hulk's yield bonus, even swapping to a mammoth or an itty to haul will still give you more ore/hour.

That's jetcan mining. The OP wrote like he was not doing jetcan mining. If you do anything to make your Hulk live in the belt and do something else to retrieve it, then the hulk wins. (But Macks still win with 2 Macks vs 1 Hulk + Orca/hauler.)

Drox
CCP Tallest
C C P
C C P Alliance
#351 - 2012-08-08 15:09:55 UTC
Anvil44 wrote:
Also before chribba? Nice progressions here. Do the exhumers also require Astrogeology III? Or up to V?

The Exhumers skill still requires Astrogeology V

Madam Isk wrote:
Will existing hulks get their rig's "refunded"? I'm sure I'm not the only one that invested in T2 cargo rigs for my hulk that are now worthless so I'm hoping they will be de-equipped so I can sell or re-purpose them.

Rigs will not be moved or refunded.

Droxlyn wrote:
The ore hold on the Hulk on Sisi is at 7500. Is there a planned boost or is there an error in the dev blog?

The last batch of changes were put on SISI after the blog was posted. The blog and patch notes have the correct numbers.

Geksz wrote:
So is that so easy to store a lot of people's mining crystals on orcas and rorquals?
Is it easy to use the dedicated corp hangars with containers?
Do any of the miners want to put their crystals on someone elses orcas every time they go mining in 0.0?
If one wants to mine all ore types in 0.0 how much space will it take to bring all the required crystals for all the Hulks in the fleet?

Just asking...

With the reduced cargo hold one can't even bring his crystals with their Hulk out and put it in a can to store...

The Hulk has enough space to bring 1 set of tech II crystals in his mining lasers plus 4 spare sets of crystals. On average, this should allow you to mine 1 type of ore for at least 25 hours or 5 types of ore for at least 5 hours each. If you absolutely have to be able to mine more types or mine for longer, then you will need to either go to a place where you store more crystals or have a fleet member supply you with them. I would also like to point out that a strip miner with no crystals in it can mine any type of ore. It is far less efficient than using a mining crystal, but if you really want to clear out a small asteroid that you do not have crystals for, this is always an option.

Tric Starless wrote:
Is this a typo? : "Skiff and Retriever are getting hit points comparable to a battleship"

Because the EHP chart doesn't match up... Think you meant Skiff and Procurer?

Yes that is a typo. I'll get it fixed.

Jaques D'Builder wrote:
So I suppose the question is. Does the ore go to the ore hold after the mining cycle completes, or do you have to manually move it from the cargo to the ore hold.

If you have to move it, this will drive mineral prices up because AFK miners will be nonexistent.

Ore is mined straight into the ore hold both from mining lasers and from mining drones.

[b]★ EVE Game Designer ★ ♥ Team Super Friends ♥[/b]
Silath Slyver Silverpine
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2012-08-08 15:10:21 UTC
These changes look fantastic!
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#353 - 2012-08-08 15:10:41 UTC
As a miner, I find the changes to be welcome. I have a Hulk, but I mine mostly in hisec and a Hulk is really overkill for what I want -- too expensive, and too rich a gank-target in certain systems. I think the new Ret/Mack will fit my playstyle a lot better -- instead of having one alt mining and another driving the hauler, I can have them both out in the belt running mining lasers on rocks.
marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#354 - 2012-08-08 15:16:37 UTC
Ship balancing my ruddy arse, more like a 10% nerf to mining across the board, swine peaked my interest now. X

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.
m0rnin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#355 - 2012-08-08 16:50:15 UTC
Erm where are all the prints for these ship?????????
Nemesis Bosseret
Dysfunctional Nocturnal Rejects
#356 - 2012-08-08 16:52:10 UTC
so............. let me get this straight.......... you guys are helping miners by going and nerfing us for one, two u just made a 200 mil ship completly useless, and you just helped the fake bot miners have a ship to use when you guys have put out forever that you are totally against this........ Way to go CCP you just epicly screwed up. Congrats tho to goons tho i give you guys props for holding up hulkageddon for so long and honestly that helps us more than hurts us because it just supports the industry.. as to this rebalancing its completly ********. what are you guys trying to accomplish really? it was supposed to be specialtiy ships for each type of mining not hey we are going to make a tank ship for nul sec...dumb..... bot ship for high sec...... even dumber......realtivly not touch the hulk but give it a cargo hold for ore instead? Im sorry im complaining because this has to be the dumbest thing i have seen you guys do in my time playing this game, recommend actually talking to the people you are about to screw before making a major game change because odviously there was no consult with any of us. if i wanted a mining ship that just sat there forever id strap a mining laser to an transport and sit there forever and a day like noobs do...... pfft whatever im going to go drink and go back to killing random people and just making someones life hell
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#357 - 2012-08-08 17:00:35 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
The Hulk has enough space to bring 1 set of tech II crystals in his mining lasers plus 4 spare sets of crystals. On average, this should allow you to mine 1 type of ore for at least 25 hours or 5 types of ore for at least 5 hours each.

Assuming a "set" equals three, and should last approximately five hours, have I always just had really ****** luck with crystals, or has their volatility been reduced? If the former, I'd appreciate having my undocumented luck stat re-rolled. If the latter, I'm still quite displeased with not being able to carry a set of everything, but at least I won't need five of each crystal anymore.


And there's still a metric fsckton of other comments made by myself and others that need addressing.............
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#358 - 2012-08-08 18:17:10 UTC
Atum wrote:
CCP Tallest wrote:
The Hulk has enough space to bring 1 set of tech II crystals in his mining lasers plus 4 spare sets of crystals. On average, this should allow you to mine 1 type of ore for at least 25 hours or 5 types of ore for at least 5 hours each.

Assuming a "set" equals three, and should last approximately five hours, have I always just had really ****** luck with crystals, or has their volatility been reduced? If the former, I'd appreciate having my undocumented luck stat re-rolled. If the latter, I'm still quite displeased with not being able to carry a set of everything, but at least I won't need five of each crystal anymore.


And there's still a metric fsckton of other comments made by myself and others that need addressing.............


At risk of sounding like a broken record:

CCP Tallest you are sounding like a paper theory crafter warrior than someone who actually put the theory to use.

Breaking down crystals into how long they last just does not work, rock types vary in size and length of time to mine.

Used crystals last much less longer than the stated 5 hours.

In reality your numbers are a crock, so you are forcing us to break up our mining cycles to change out crystals, whether you have to head to a pos/dockup or arrange someone to deliver them to you..

Counting the set loaded in the lasers is false as well, as you can't load ammo while docked, so in reality, the selection of crystals to load up before heading out is 4 sets without spares.

Is that the intention of this change, for people to just say the hell with T2 lasers and mine less?

Senex Legio
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#359 - 2012-08-08 18:19:23 UTC
Jake Rivers wrote:

Counting the set loaded in the lasers is false as well, as you can't load ammo while docked, so in reality, the selection of crystals to load up before heading out is 4 sets without spares.


Odd, every time I drop ammo on the weapons in the fitting window, they get loaded up. Do you mean when you drop the ammo on the ship?

Drox
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#360 - 2012-08-08 18:20:26 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:

Counting the set loaded in the lasers is false as well, as you can't load ammo while docked, so in reality, the selection of crystals to load up before heading out is 4 sets without spares.


Odd, every time I drop ammo on the weapons in the fitting window, they get loaded up. Do you mean when you drop the ammo on the ship?

Drox


I never tried that, well that is nice.

Thanks for the tip.

Senex Legio