These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Incarna/WiS Disappointment

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#761 - 2012-08-05 17:46:24 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Those are statements about what CCP is doing and not doing, as they talk little and commit nothing.


Beside that, as already stated, CCPs total refusal to talk about anything CQ (aside from new clothes to come to NEX), let alone reveal plans for anything to expand on the concept, is evidencee enough... we SEE they aren't doing anything!

Meaningful gameplay... sorry, but what isn't meaningful about direct avatar socializing... it would add a whole level of depth to the game, with minimal affort.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#762 - 2012-08-05 17:49:18 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
ok ... ok ok ....
I can't stop asking my self why people don't want to create awesome things and complains when some have balls to do it


As I already stated elsewhere, if CCP won't open the door, there is no reason why the players should agree with that, specially provided that the CQ is a client side feature.

Also i pointed that CCP could gather a lot of free work from modders if they were willing to, and for a fraction of what would take them to do it in-house.

"Will" is the key word.

Will and determination.


I think you are confused. The biggest challenge in developing wis is conceptualizing meaningful gameplay (which TA is working on through prototyping), and not the lack of variety in pants. comprende?


"Meaningful gameplay" according to whom? I don't plan to have Ishtanchuk killed anytime, can you guess how thrilled I feel about Team Avatar developing X different ways to kill each other?

One of my objections to Team Avatar's work is that nobody has ever asked players what do we want from WiS. CCP is assuming that as some players love to pod each other, then that's what WiS should be about. Bear in mind that I already envisioned that as a function for "drone clones", but certainly it should not be the first and only way to leave the CQ.

In that sense, CCP's stubborn refusal to allow multiple players to be in a CQ is quite staggering -looks like they are suffering PTSD about anything that smells of Incarna and have feverish nightmares about crowds with pitchforks and torches besieging their HQ if they as much as allow two players to share a CQ just to chat. I mean, it should be obvious that the world will not end if I can bring a friend to my CQ and display a recruitment video on the screen (with some elementary playback options -pause, FFW, RWD, nothing too sophisticate). I am not even asking about -gedaws- having a specific room with chairs and a big screen so I can deliver a corporate speech. No, nothing like that, God forbid it, would not be "meaningful gameplay" as we as a species are completely fixated with shiny metal ships and don't care at all about stuff that looks like people... Roll


Again I think you are confusing what "we" want with what you personally want. Let's have a show of hands, who wants to shoot a goon in some hallway at jita 4-4, nobody?
I mean, it should be obvious that the world will not end if Instachuck does not get what he wants.


Well, if I was CCP I would make sure that it's that Fazmarai dude who is playing the fool, lest he and all the strangers who like his ideas be right.

For some strange reason, people was fervently in favor of WiS when it was all about undetermined social fluff and nobody raised an eyebrow when CCP stated that players would not be allowed to harm other players in Incarna.

I wonder where were *you* back then... or a week ago, for what matters.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#763 - 2012-08-05 18:02:36 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Those are statements about what CCP is doing and not doing, as they talk little and commit nothing.


Beside that, as already stated, CCPs total refusal to talk about anything CQ (aside from new clothes to come to NEX), let alone reveal plans for anything to expand on the concept, is evidencee enough... we SEE they aren't doing anything!

Meaningful gameplay... sorry, but what isn't meaningful about direct avatar socializing... it would add a whole level of depth to the game, with minimal affort.


Yay, even if they are heterosexual female avatars and have no blankets... *giggles* Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#764 - 2012-08-05 18:04:57 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
For some strange reason, people was fervently in favor of WiS when it was all about undetermined social fluff and nobody raised an eyebrow when CCP stated that players would not be allowed to harm other players in Incarna.

[citation needed]

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#765 - 2012-08-05 18:11:12 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
I am going to go out on a limb and say that upper management for CCP is looking at the "big" picture.

No, I am not talking about the Eve gaming universe. I am referring to the whole online gaming genre in general.

While perusing through Yahoo, I noted over the past week various headlines involving online gaming. World of Warcraft lost another chunk of subscribers. Star Wars: The Old Republic is going freeware in November with various extras in the game being available through a real life bought token item. Electronic Arts is suing Zynga (or however it is spelled) for mimicking their Sims game...

...all avatar based games with a touch of vanity available items for purchase.

So if you are the upper management for CCP and see that the whole genre is dipping due to various reasons (including a poor world economy), then after last year's failed attempt at stepping into this segment of gaming, would you honestly invest capital into that direction? Or would you stay with what Eve has always been known for and hope your subscription based game still has legs in a gaming world that looks for the quick and easy money before fading into obscurity within a few years?


You forget about the other little difference between those games +99% of MMOs, and EVE: developer made content vs player driven emergent content.

Things may not look pretty for "theme park" subscription MMOs, but then, provided that Team Avatar has been prototyping something that ressembles a lot to dungeon raiding (hint: the most venerable theme park content in RPGs), whereas I and other have been asking for getting ASAP player interaction tools so they can create their own emergent social gameplay, wouldn't you feel inclined to think that it's CCP's theme-parkization of WiS what is a bad idea?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Aooz
Doomheim
#766 - 2012-08-05 18:11:20 UTC
I think we all misinterpreted Incarna

Instead of viewing it as a mistake by CCP, consider that they knew exactly what they were doing - a cash shop is what they were willing to do for EVE. In other words, "sure we'll give them development resources if they buy 70$ monocles." Notice how since Incarna EVE has essentially been in maintenance mode. They have no interest in creating a virtual world, that company those devs are gone. Furthermore they have no intention of just gifting us with WiS. Their main goal with EVE now is to not change it too much lest they **** anyone off so they can use it to fund development on more lucrative projects (or what they hope will be more lucrative). For instance, they noticed the boat rocking with all the ganking nonsense and gave the miners safer ships and that's the kind of crap you'll be getting forever, besides some UI tweaks.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#767 - 2012-08-05 18:14:59 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Yay, even if they are heterosexual female avatars and have no blankets... *giggles* Lol


...no blanket, hu? *mind wanders off...* Agh, stop it! I'm trying to concentrate here! *smirks*

Actually, believe it or not, that wasn't the kind of "socializing" I had in mind...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Ghazu
#768 - 2012-08-05 18:39:21 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Those are statements about what CCP is doing and not doing, as they talk little and commit nothing.


Beside that, as already stated, CCPs total refusal to talk about anything CQ (aside from new clothes to come to NEX), let alone reveal plans for anything to expand on the concept, is evidencee enough... we SEE they aren't doing anything!

Meaningful gameplay... sorry, but what isn't meaningful about direct avatar socializing... it would add a whole level of depth to the game, with minimal affort.

So one time these 2 dudes got together and emoted each other for 10 minutes, the end.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#769 - 2012-08-05 18:45:24 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
So one time these 2 dudes got together and emoted each other for 10 minutes, the end.


Maybe that would be the extend of it for some, given... but imagine docking a station and not just seeing "guest list" of people there, but the actual people walking around the docks... or the main ward... chatting away... maybe brokering a deal, or discussing the terms of a contract... I, sure as hell would prefer that over a plain "local" channel... but maybe that's just because I am a longtime roleplayer... dunno.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#770 - 2012-08-05 18:50:30 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Those are statements about what CCP is doing and not doing, as they talk little and commit nothing.


Beside that, as already stated, CCPs total refusal to talk about anything CQ (aside from new clothes to come to NEX), let alone reveal plans for anything to expand on the concept, is evidencee enough... we SEE they aren't doing anything!

Meaningful gameplay... sorry, but what isn't meaningful about direct avatar socializing... it would add a whole level of depth to the game, with minimal affort.

So one time these 2 dudes got together and emoted each other for 10 minutes, the end.


By the way, there is one thing that kind of intrigues me, maybe you can help us with it. Do you know why The Mittani was in favor of Incarna previously to its release? Did you Goons had plans for it?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#771 - 2012-08-05 19:05:55 UTC
Everyone was in favor of Incarna prior to release. It was supposed to be a meaningful simulation of what capsuleers do when not covered in goop and plugged into their spaceships. The problem was that it turned out to be nothing more than a vehicle for a cash shop, and all of the inherent disrespect for the player base that goes with such a thing.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#772 - 2012-08-05 19:24:57 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


For some strange reason, people was fervently in favor of WiS when it was all about undetermined social fluff and nobody raised an eyebrow when CCP stated that players would not be allowed to harm other players in Incarna.

I wonder where were *you* back then... or a week ago, for what matters.



Yeah... I wonder where you were?

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1532604

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420500

Two threads with plenty of peop,e posting in favour of PvP in WiS found in about 5 seconds googling. And many more even in this very thread.

It's OK to have your personal vision of what WiS should be but that's not a reason to lie to yourself or others about whether there are other visions. You are blatantly misrepresenting the many many people who posted about a different vision than yours. It's dishonest.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#773 - 2012-08-05 19:32:53 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It's OK to have your personal vision of what WiS should be but that's not a reason to lie to yourself or others about whether there are other visions. You are blatantly misrepresenting the many many people who posted about a different vision than yours. It's dishonest.


It's not only a matter of personal opinion or preferrences... true, I don't care much for PvP in EVE as a whole, so I wouldn't have missed it in WiS, but I am well aware that there are many people who would have liked it... however, making WiS a purely social experience in the beginning would have been much easier to pull off... CCP could always have been expanding on that later.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#774 - 2012-08-05 19:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
Shalua Rui wrote:
It's not only a matter of personal opinion or preferrences... true, I don't care much for PvP in EVE as a whole, so I wouldn't have missed it in WiS, but I am well aware that there are many people who would have liked it... however, making WiS a purely social experience in the beginning would have been much easier to pull off... CCP could always have been expanding on that later.


So let me get this straight ... you'd rather not have to use the market? You do realize that any and all market activity that isn't an item purchased from NPCs is a form of PvP, right?

There's a big difference between blowing up other people's spaceships (a specific type of PvP) and PvP as a whole. Squares and rectangles. Acknowledging this difference is key to understanding WiS, and EVE itself for that matter. Understanding this is also what'll help us keep EVE from turning into League of Legends in space.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#775 - 2012-08-05 21:58:25 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
So one time these 2 dudes got together and emoted each other for 10 minutes, the end.


Maybe that would be the extend of it for some, given... but imagine docking a station and not just seeing "guest list" of people there, but the actual people walking around the docks... or the main ward... chatting away... maybe brokering a deal, or discussing the terms of a contract... I, sure as hell would prefer that over a plain "local" channel... but maybe that's just because I am a longtime roleplayer... dunno.

It would be interesting for about five minutes, but without any gameplay behind it, 99% of people will go back to the hangar view and the existing chat channels, and then the 1% who remain will be walking around the deserted docks by themselves with no-one to chat or deal with.

A repackaging of things we can already do in some pretty new graphics really isn't a compelling or worthwhile use of the WiS technology or the massive amount of resources already poured into it.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Ghazu
#776 - 2012-08-06 00:37:26 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Those are statements about what CCP is doing and not doing, as they talk little and commit nothing.


Beside that, as already stated, CCPs total refusal to talk about anything CQ (aside from new clothes to come to NEX), let alone reveal plans for anything to expand on the concept, is evidencee enough... we SEE they aren't doing anything!

Meaningful gameplay... sorry, but what isn't meaningful about direct avatar socializing... it would add a whole level of depth to the game, with minimal affort.

So one time these 2 dudes got together and emoted each other for 10 minutes, the end.


By the way, there is one thing that kind of intrigues me, maybe you can help us with it. Do you know why The Mittani was in favor of Incarna previously to its release? Did you Goons had plans for it?

How and why would you plan for something that ended up with no gameplay and mechanics to speak of? CQ off?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#777 - 2012-08-06 01:30:04 UTC
Meaningfull gameplay, yes please.

Wait unitl WiS is "complete" beofore releasing it? No.

Is there any part of EVE that can be considered complete? It is an
evovling game after all.

Fact, WiS has already been released, and it is time for some updates.
Social areas would be a good start while we wait for other prototyping
to be completed

Releasing social areas now we increase AUR revenue and inspire more
input from players as to what more they want to see added.

Simply adding social areas with the planned vicinty voice chat would add
a HUGE depth to EVE. "Meaningfull gameplay" while important in the long
run, can be released later.

Waiting 2-3 years to release more WiS(gameplay) vs social areas now and
gameplay later is completely ass backwards imo.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#778 - 2012-08-06 01:36:12 UTC
Aooz wrote:
I think we all misinterpreted Incarna

Instead of viewing it as a mistake by CCP, consider that they knew exactly what they were doing - a cash shop is what they were willing to do for EVE. In other words, "sure we'll give them development resources if they buy 70$ monocles." Notice how since Incarna EVE has essentially been in maintenance mode. They have no interest in creating a virtual world, that company those devs are gone. Furthermore they have no intention of just gifting us with WiS. Their main goal with EVE now is to not change it too much lest they **** anyone off so they can use it to fund development on more lucrative projects (or what they hope will be more lucrative). For instance, they noticed the boat rocking with all the ganking nonsense and gave the miners safer ships and that's the kind of crap you'll be getting forever, besides some UI tweaks.


This why I was pissed. I felt lied too.

You do know the cash shop was released without a word on pricing or what would be sold right? They didn't even warn or ask the CSm or ask the comunity what we thought.

WiS is what I want, what was released was terrible. That doesn't mean people don't want it. but they wasted tons of dev time on something that obviously was planned out as a cash grab and they didn't even tell us. They let the expansion drop without even a page of patch notes

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#779 - 2012-08-06 01:37:15 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Meaningfull gameplay, yes please.

Wait unitl WiS is "complete" beofore releasing it? No.

Is there any part of EVE that can be considered complete? It is an
evovling game after all.

Fact, WiS has already been released, and it is time for some updates.
Social areas would be a good start while we wait for other prototyping
to be completed

Releasing social areas now we increase AUR revenue and inspire more
input from players as to what more they want to see added.

Simply adding social areas with the planned vicinty voice chat would add
a HUGE depth to EVE. "Meaningfull gameplay" while important in the long
run, can be released later.

Waiting 2-3 years to release more WiS(gameplay) vs social areas now and
gameplay later is completely ass backwards imo.


plus as long as no one can see below your neck no one will buy any of the new stuff being released. Don't they get that?

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Noriko Satomi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#780 - 2012-08-06 03:46:38 UTC
I wouldn't mind seeing the big screen used for SpaceWebEx fleet briefings.