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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Challu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1461 - 2012-07-22 10:40:32 UTC
Any updates on when we might expect some kind of substantive improvement to the Uniderped Inventory?

Y'all have gone awfully quiet since the last round of small-minnow changes.. hope you have something good in store!

Thanks!
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1462 - 2012-07-23 03:46:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Amura Kadur wrote:
*snip*

You have misunderstood me. I canceled the accounts because I do not want to play with a bad game. This is my way to say that CCP should fix it faster. And I save money until it is redesigned. My stuff belongs to me Cool ...
*signed* 2 / 3 of my accounts remained mothballed until this poor excuse for a game expansion gets fixed.

During basic game play over the past couple of weeks I have come up against relatively straightforward issues and / or unexpected behaviors that any professional usability tester or QA engineer could easily identify, document and report back to the development team responsible for this game functionality. Defects were reported w/screenshots, of course.

Whether these defects were present upon Inferno's initial release or if they are a result of CCP catering to the grand Inventory UI wishlist forum thread, I can't say, but if this stuff is to languish through to the end of this year [CCP Soundwaffe-provided timeline] because "people are on vacation," then expect accounts to languish and subscription fees to be withheld.

Winning hearts, minds and wallets, this customer relationship management methodology is not.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Enzaki
Kamiya Dojo
Mildy Unprofessional
#1463 - 2012-07-23 05:52:37 UTC
When will there be an option to use the old inventory system rather the the new Unified Inventory ??

we on the like 15 update i think if was and still not working ...... wtf ccp :S comeon
Doom Sentinel
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1464 - 2012-07-24 04:07:36 UTC
User: "What the... Where did my pickup truck go?"
CCP: "We took that rusty old thing away, but look, here is a brand new bicycle! It looks much nicer and is still used for transportation! It has flame decals and a chrome finish!"
User: "Yeah but the pickup could tow my boat. I want the pickup back."
CCP: "No problem! See, the bycicle has a towbar now!"
User: "Yeah, but, I still can't tow my boat with it. I do that like, twice a day. I need a pickup, not a bicycle."
CCP: "But look, the bicycle can take you places on TWO WHEELS! Could your nasty old pickup drive on two wheels? I think not."
User: "I don't want to drive on two wheels. I have no need to drive on two wheels. I want to tow my boat."
CCP: "Well we have already taken away everybody's pickups and replaced them with bicycles, and our usage statistics show a whopping 100% adoption rate! So stop whining."
Dex Tera
XER'S LONE SOLOS CLUB
#1465 - 2012-07-24 12:09:48 UTC
2 months with out a dev coming on to this thread to tell us how they plan to fix the ui wtf is ccp doing i realy hope that ccp has learned NOT to **** with something unless its broken

also wtf is wrong with the tree i have to re size that ***** EVERY ******* TIME i open my invintory since it sricks down to a sliver that is unusable i cant even see the icons from the different bays that's how small it is

also put the ******* corp hanger division tabs back at the top of the window please ffs do this on small thing

also when i open my inventory in station it goes to my ships cargo why the **** is it still doing this if i wanted to go to my cargo i would double click on my ship make it go to my item hanger also bring back the button for my ship hanger please i never asked you to take it away

i hope i dont have to wait for 2 months for a response

im srsly considering calling ccp customer service

fix this unified piece of junk PLEASE!
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#1466 - 2012-07-24 12:52:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Seismic Stan
Doom Sentinel wrote:
User: "What the... Where did my pickup truck go?"
CCP: "We took that rusty old thing away, but look, here is a brand new bicycle! It looks much nicer and is still used for transportation! It has flame decals and a chrome finish!"
User: "Yeah but the pickup could tow my boat. I want the pickup back."
CCP: "No problem! See, the bicycle has a towbar now!"
User: "Yeah, but, I still can't tow my boat with it. I do that like, twice a day. I need a pickup, not a bicycle."
CCP: "But look, the bicycle can take you places on TWO WHEELS! Could your nasty old pickup drive on two wheels? I think not."
User: "I don't want to drive on two wheels. I have no need to drive on two wheels. I want to tow my boat."
CCP: "Well we have already taken away everybody's pickups and replaced them with bicycles, and our usage statistics show a whopping 100% adoption rate! So stop whining."


Brilliant. This describes the CCP philosophy to "improvements" perfectly. Nicely written Doom Sentinel. :)

The "people don't like change but they get used to it eventually" ethos is a dangerous customer relations tactic. It's very alienating. When the complaints die down is that because people have got used to the new design or because they've realised they're wasting their breath? Also "change" without "improvement" is a waste of effort. That the Inventory system is now "different" does not make it "better".

A similar approach was taken with Captain's Quarters - a flawed concept was made compulsory with CQ being forced on players. Is this not the same thing happening again? I appreciate that wheels were set in motion and it is difficult to retract some iterations, but please look harder before you leap, developers. Highlighting that the UI is complex and uses lots of windows is one thing, but arbitrarily culling the "main offender" was a blinkered design decision. There are many other reasons to work on UI elements beyond simply the number of windows ir generates and certainly many UI elements more deserving of attention than the inventory system.

That there is still life in this thread - and much of it negative - must mean something.

"HTFU" is an amusing philosophy in gameplay terms, but is it really something that should be applied to the entire user experience?
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1467 - 2012-07-24 17:09:51 UTC
I have hardly been playing since these changes. I, like many others, are questioning why I am paying just to keep my training queues active.

In fact, I know that there won't be any more fixes. So the question is, can I live with the UI the way it is. And right now, the answer is a definite maybe. I think my accounts just renewed for 3 months, so I'll have some time to think about it, and see if playing is just too annoying to be fun.

Honestly, the biggest test of the new UI is to play other games, then come back to EvE. The difference is amazing in terms of how much you have to fight the EvE UI compared to how smooth and easy the other games' UIs are.

For me, this is becoming an NGE scenario...
Konstantin Panfilov
Alpha Company
#1468 - 2012-07-24 19:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Konstantin Panfilov
UI Inventory work as travel from Reickyavik to London to path Reickyavik - New York - SanPaolo - Los Angelos - Tokyo - Melburn - Bangkock - Deli - Pekin - Istambul - Berlin - Viena - Moscow - Helsinki - Paris - London.

It must work as path Reickyavik - London without middle stantion.

I think, CCP DEV must posted new blog with plan 1-2 mounts fix UI Inventory.
Bing Khagah
Doomheim
#1469 - 2012-07-25 03:55:02 UTC
I fully empathize with your disappointment in CCP.

We would have been much better off positioning Expansion/Update/Patch
X as an optional technology preview that interested players could
have experienced and helped us to refine.

The tragedy here is that the team really did build solid technology and
great art to support what you can see and did it in way that sets a strong
foundation for building out the rest.

The fact is, in spite of our missteps, they delivered some of the most
amazing Y and Z in the industry, and their efforts deserve praise.

The fact we didn’t leverage their achievement more effectively is my fault.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#1470 - 2012-07-25 23:41:21 UTC
I remember CQ.... I remember prying the slagged remains of my video card out of my case and waiting 4 days for a paycheck so I could find out what a fckball that was. The upside was that enough people in exploration unsubbed I made alot of isk, the downside was the $114 USD in replacement parts. But I wasn't mad then, I was aware I'd reached the far end of that card's lifetime and accepted it was time to upgrade anyways.

Upgrading my machine can't fix the UI though, but uninstalling can.

I got a reply back regarding an Icelandic equivalent of the BBB, doesn't look particularly promising but here's what I got in reply to my inquiry:

Referring to the enclosed request for information please be advised of the following.
The Consuler Agency: The Consumer Agency deals with market surveillance of business operators, good functioning and transparency of the markets in respect to safety and consumers legal rights as well as enforcement of legislation adopted by the Icelandic Parliament for protection of consumers health, legal and economical rights. The Consumer Agency is a governmental agency falling under the auspices of the Ministry of the Interior.

The Consumer Spokesman: The role of the Consumer Spokesman is to stand guard as regards the interests and rights of consumers and enhance further consumer protection.


For further information please see the following websites:

The Consumer Agency: http://www.neytendastofa.is/English

The Ministry of the Interior: http://eng.innanrikisraduneyti.is/

The Consumer Spokesman: http://www.talsmadur.is/pages/763


This'd be the appropriate outside agency to file a complaint with but I'm not sure how far it'd go or if CCP would listen to them when they won't listen to us either.




Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#1471 - 2012-07-26 12:49:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
fix the f'cking UI already!!
(read: give us the old one).

I'm still annoyed as f*ck by this terrible pile of cr*p named Unified Inventory! I dont want it unified for no reason, separated inventory was great before. Now it sucks huge monkey balls.

Stop trying to unify something which does not belong together!
Drone bays, ship maintenance bays, corporate hangars, POS labs, item hangars and SHIP HANGARS DO NOT!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111

UNIFIED INCR*PTORY IS A FUKCING DISASTER! GET IT FINALLY!
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1472 - 2012-07-26 14:49:18 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
fix the f'cking UI already!!
(read: give us the old one).

I'm still annoyed as f*ck by this terrible pile of cr*p named Unified Inventory! I dont want it unified for no reason, separated inventory was great before. Now it sucks huge monkey balls.

Stop trying to unify something which does not belong together!
Drone bays, ship maintenance bays, corporate hangars, POS labs, item hangars and SHIP HANGARS DO NOT!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111

UNIFIED INCR*PTORY IS A FUKCING DISASTER! GET IT FINALLY!
I feel your rage, but apparently CCP has not yet had the financial incentive to take action and unfuck the new UI.

What is missing for me is professional communication on this issue. We have had three CCP employees make empty promises, take things personally or engage with the community and then do nothing. The vacuum in project management leadership, client communication and customer relationship management is significant. Is CCP intentionally dropping the topic with the hope that the most irritated customers will unsubscribe, in effect firing a group of clients? Is this simply a case of CCP's continued project management and CRM incompetence?

I would love if HBR or one of the other business management publications did a case study (or three) on CCP and some of their recent projects and how they have impacted customer relationships.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

nardaq
Orion Expeditions
#1473 - 2012-07-27 23:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: nardaq
CCP, any respond/update about this?
MaverickScot
Unidentified Flying Saucer
#1474 - 2012-07-28 22:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: MaverickScot
74 pages of UI complaints and requests to get it removed or fixed and no CCP employee response since the first pages. So much for customer service. I'm still having problems and no offer of a fix or a solution or any response. I'm going on leave for three weeks hopefully this awful UI will be binned and the old system returned. If we have to put up with this UI then put it in the ASSETS.
AnzacPaul
Jump 2 Beacon
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#1475 - 2012-07-29 22:10:05 UTC
MaverickScot wrote:
74 pages of UI complaints and requests to get it removed or fixed and no CCP employee response since the first pages. So much for customer service. I'm still having problems and no offer of a fix or a solution or any response. I'm going on leave for three weeks hopefully this awful UI will be binned and the old system returned. If we have to put up with this UI then put it in the ASSETS.



CCP don't care whilst they are still making money.

End of story.

Nothing has changed since Hilmar's leaked email, it's just the way they go about things now. This is evident from the COMPLETE LACK OF SUPPORT WITH THIS ISSUE.
Sappho Lesbos
Perkone
Caldari State
#1476 - 2012-07-31 04:45:28 UTC
For those that don't know, there is a checkbox in the general settings tab to add a ships and items tab to the station info column where the guest/office list usually is. This sort of restores the functionality of the old, decent UI system.

As far as fixes go, last thing Soundwave said was that they couldn't keep working on their terrible excuse for an inventory system because they needed to move onto working on the next expansion.

So basically the typical "break the game, fix half a decade later" approach that CCP has perfected into a fine art.
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#1477 - 2012-07-31 22:37:09 UTC
Aside from my issues and feedback, I've isolated these from my list that are specific to the "Unified Inventory UI"... [sigh]

- WINDOW AMNESIA: All "Unified UI" windows open do not remember/retain their settings. This is highly exhibited when docking to every new station after you've set up your parameters. All ESTABLISHED UI windows may remember "where" they are supposed to be, but they also seem to randomly "forget" how your list preferences are (i.e. Big Icons, Small Icons, or LIST.) It seems to default to big Icons (which 50% of them seem glitched). Extremely counter-productive.

- COLUMN AMNESIA: Even when a (especially CARGOHOLD and/or CHAT) window remembers WHERE and HOW to list contents, many times, the COLUMN widths are constantly reset. Add to more counter-productivity.

- FILTER AMNESIA: "My Filters" is not remembering that it's minimized... as usual.

- DOUBLE-CLICKING UNIFIED UI CONTAINERS OPENS "OLD FORM TABS": It's nice thate you fixed the issue when someone "Shift-Clicks" a CONTAINER in a Corporate hangar, and the new Unified UI window is opened JUST WITH THE NAME OF THE CONTAINER. However, though it's very nice that you created the "DOUBLE-CLICK" option to perform the same action, SADLY the "newly" opened container (again, ONLY from double-clicking to Open said container) bears the TAB NAME of "Corporation hangar: NAME OF CONTAINER" which again makes "tabbing" a non-discernable problem... Because if you have several of those tabs in one joined window, the tabs all read: "Corpora" "Corpora" Corpora" etc.. (for example).

- COMMA (IN)CONSISTENCY: If you are going to use commas (",") as separators for numerical quantities and money, why is it not UNIFORMLY APPLIED to all aspects of EVE?
Example: When VIEWING a BLUEPRINT's "Materials" and comparing it to "Materials" IN A HANGAR, the hangar USES commas, but all BLUEPRINT "Materials" listings show full numbers of items WITHOUT COMMAS. This makes it difficult when trying to visually work with/compare large amounts for ships/items to build.

- ROW SEPARATION LINES: When in "LIST" mode of ANY "UNIFIED UI" windows, the ROWS are 10% opaque lines. Compare that to the very clearly seen row lines in Market, Science/Industry Labs, and POS UI, and you'll see how difficult it is to visually work with LISTED items in hangars/containers.

- ESTIMATED PRICE (AND MOUSEOVERS): Please make this OPTIONAL. Any user viewing everything by "LIST MODE (no icons), the insistant "Est. Price/Value" POP-UP windows are BLOCKING up to 3 rows of important information wherever the mouse happens to be. It's even more frustrating since you barely have any visible ROW SEPARATION LINES.

- EST. VALUE OF WINDOWS: Please also make this optional. It is usually 50% wrong economicly, useless to those of us who specialize in the EVE Market Economics, and it would free up some screen real estate.

- BACK BUTTON: Please make a "go back" option in a window if something changed (or was hovered over for too long) so that we can go back to what we had been looking at instead of opening the tree, finding what was open, open it and resize the window... again.


.....Does anyone in CCP care?
miner Fonulique
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1478 - 2012-08-01 19:28:35 UTC
Konstantin Panfilov wrote:
UI Inventory work as travel from Reickyavik to London to path Reickyavik - New York - SanPaolo - Los Angelos - Tokyo - Melburn - Bangkock - Deli - Pekin - Istambul - Berlin - Viena - Moscow - Helsinki - Paris - London.

It must work as path Reickyavik - London without middle stantion.

I think, CCP DEV must posted new blog with plan 1-2 mounts fix UI Inventory.



And!

When passing Istanbul, U get ganked by a dude with a BIG golden cross on the chest, traying to fight the hair, but, no.......
" working as intedeed "



Thx For the best game in the world, Plz make it Work again!
JaseNZ
EG CORP
#1479 - 2012-08-04 09:25:16 UTC
My issue I have with UI is windows not remembering their places as they should.

Let's say I have my Ship Cargo in the top, lethand corner....and next to that I have my Orca's Corp Hangar, and next to that I have my Orca Ore Hangar.

A good order for me to drop from one to the other while getting my Industry on.

When I undock, and warp to my Orca, if I right click, and select open Corp Hangar, my ship's cargohold is replaced by the Corp Hangar...and the same goes for my Ore Hangar.

In order for them to open where the client 'remembers' their positions, I need to hold shift, and click open [whatever hangar], and then they will appear side by side like I want them to.

I'd rather it acted the way it did with the old system, each window opens where it is 'remembered'....do I really need to add extra keypresses in order for it to act the way it used to? I opened each window for a reason, not so that the following could take the place of the preceeding.
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1480 - 2012-08-05 12:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
JaseNZ wrote:
My issue I have with UI is windows not remembering their places as they should.

*snip*.
It is a matter of recording state and the Inventory UI has some serious challenges along those lines. As you mentioned, window positioning is one glaring issue.

Additionally, the UI has problems when it comes to remembering user-defined parameters such as the view type (icons / details / list) across various containers. It appears that the new UI wants to inherit the user's choices from the previous opened window rather than store the user's choice made for a particular container. This issue is most prevalent in the station-services "ships" and "items" tabs. For example, I like to see my ships' icons and I like to have my items listed out. This configuration choice is not possible to save across session changes, unfortunately.

I'm waiting to see what CCP has accomplished with Inferno 1.2 on the 8th of this month. After ~2.5 months of feedback, defect reports and use metrics, I hope that CCP has sorted their shhit

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.