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somthing i need to get off my chest
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Xaric Dreklore
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-08-03 10:50:00 UTC
About this hole PVP and PVE aspect of players

PVP players want people to go into low sec but yet wardec people in small corps and hindering there means to make ISK to build up and move into low sec then go onto rant how eve is focused on supporting PVE players? my response to this is stop ganking new players and ruining there "training phase of the game" its like your an adult with a bat and there a baby trying to walk...

Good things about PVP in the game

Real player vs player and not a simple AI.
Risk is good and winning is a great accomplishment.
Fighting for something you have built on.

Bad things about PVP in the game

Players who pick on knowingly defenseless targets in high sec on players that are barely a week old.
Suicidal ganking in high sec.
Wardec starter corps who want to move into low sec but being constantly shoved back into high sec that or lack skill points to join a alliance.


PVE players want people in low sec to stop ganking but go around high sec thinking there 100% safe lacking any means to work out how to defend them self's but instead go afk mining then when they come back find out there ships gone and there back in the station with lost skills because they "forgot to update there clone" shortly after complaine to CCP how unfair this is...

Good things about PVE in this game

You can focus on learning more about how the game works without threat of having to constantly look at local
This is a great time to pick a path and learn more in depth about it
Find a good Corp or alliance to live in

Bad things about PVE in this game

People who don't take risks.
People who think high sec is end game #its the training phase of the game#.
People who don't help other's when they should do.

Both groups of people need to think about your action's before you do them. i would advice watching the butterfly effect video.

Please add anything i may have missed and please state the good reason and bad reason behind it please.
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#2 - 2012-08-03 11:02:28 UTC
Eve isn't about competition, its about territory control, earning ISK, being on top, crushing your opponents and above all else Kill Boards. Easiest way to do that is club baby seals. I have been playing Eve for over 6 years I have never been war deced by anyone who picked my corp because they thought they might find some fair, interesting fights. In the same token, I do my absolute best never to give anyone a fair fight either. I want to know when the fight starts that I'm going to win. In my mind, thats about smart strategic decesions and well played out scenarios.. the fights themselves are the result of my success, the losses are the result of my failure to adapt and prepare.

Young players getting into the game have to learn that just because someone outnumbers you and outguns you doesn't mean you have already lost the war. Learning to play with a weaker hand is what seperates victims from underdogs. New players should endevour to play the game as underdogs and not as victims.

So grow a pair and fight back.. thats my advice.. Win or loose you have to bring the fight to peoples doorstep.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#3 - 2012-08-03 11:37:04 UTC
Kryss is 100% correct. Observe. Adapt. Thrive.

My advice would be to join up with a lowsec corp, and do your mining in a secluded backwater system under corporate protection. Mining happens in belts, which have no gate guns, and thus allow your to remove a potential threat even before it becomes openly hostile.

It is a matter of what gameplay you prefer. If you prefer being AFK with the chance of a terrorist attack (against not-so-great yield) mine AFK in hisec. If you prefer to keep busy checking local with the chance of a pirate attack (against better yield) mine hands-on in lowsec. If you ever want to get back at those attacking you, don't mine alone. If you really want to screw with pirates and gankers, employ a cloaked guard.

There are many ways to make ganking unprofitable / unfun / risky / a bad idea.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-08-03 11:52:16 UTC
"Random thoughts" by Xaric Dreklore.

Thank you for your Pro's and Cons of PVP vs PVE. Did you have a point/suggestion?
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#5 - 2012-08-03 12:30:57 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
"Random thoughts" by Xaric Dreklore.

Thank you for your Pro's and Cons of PVP vs PVE. Did you have a point/suggestion?


Discussion forum... purpose being to discuss ideas, thoughts, opinions. You get the idea.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-08-03 12:32:24 UTC
Something i need to get of my chest
http://www.somethingwagging.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/IMG_0302-e1320494826938-300x235.jpg

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#7 - 2012-08-03 12:32:50 UTC
Xaric Dreklore wrote:

Bad things about PVP in the game

Players who pick on knowingly defenseless targets in high sec on players that are barely a week old.
Suicidal ganking in high sec.
Wardec starter corps who want to move into low sec but being constantly shoved back into high sec that or lack skill points to join a alliance.



Scamming, blobbing, market manipulation, corp theft, backstabbing.

These a just a few examples of things people could do and are playstyles encouraged in EVE. They are not glorified however, far from it. But these possible evil facets of EVE are what make it so unique and efficient at emulating human interaction.

Therefore, those things you mentioned are not bad aspects of EVE's PVP, merely a necessary evil so that "good" actions actually have a contrast (as opposed to very good, good and slightly good).

EVE needs good and evil to be possible.

Nothing prevents you from being the guiding light for those "innocent" new players.
Xaric Dreklore
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-08-03 22:03:30 UTC
loving the comments guys this is what i want people in eve to help those in need and some of those idea's are great i will try to employ them :)
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#9 - 2012-08-03 23:00:47 UTC
All I'm seeing are ways people enjoy playing this game. If a person is having fun by simply flying to each system and viewing the planets, and paying a monthly sub just do to that, who cares, let them play how they want to play.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-08-03 23:02:28 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Something i need to get of my chest
http://www.somethingwagging.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/IMG_0302-e1320494826938-300x235.jpg


Also this http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-L6i5GhyJFQ/S_JQPtI9oDI/AAAAAAAAAOQ/OzUAblMmqh4/s400/moobs.jpg

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-08-03 23:04:00 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
"Random thoughts" by Xaric Dreklore.

Thank you for your Pro's and Cons of PVP vs PVE. Did you have a point/suggestion?


Discussion forum... purpose being to discuss ideas, thoughts, opinions. You get the idea.



My thought is that OP has a little chest. But he wrote clearly enough so even I could understand him, that's a good point.

brb
Luc Chastot
#12 - 2012-08-03 23:28:35 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Eve isn't about competition...Kill Boards.


WTF? Killboards are competitive.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Doc Severide
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-08-03 23:36:19 UTC
Xaric Dreklore wrote:
PVE players want people in low sec to stop ganking but go around high sec thinking there 100% safe lacking any means to work out how to defend them self's but instead go afk mining then when they come back find out there ships gone and there back in the station with lost skills because they "forgot to update there clone" shortly after complaine to CCP how unfair this is...

Anyone this stupid should not own a computer and not be allowed to reproduce...
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#14 - 2012-08-04 00:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Xaric Dreklore wrote:
About this hole PVP and PVE aspect of players

......
Please add anything i may have missed and please state the good reason and bad reason behind it please.


I don't think your assessment is all that accurate.

EvE is a dystopic universe, with doggy eat doggy mentality. It's meant to be unsafe, dangerous, and rewarding. Learning who to trust, when to cooperate, when to compete, and when to destroy is what makes EvE wonderful.

Ship combat (the PvP you're post is referring to) is about planting your flag, shaming your opponent, making isk/profit, playing with your toys, world shaping, collecting tears, and many other reasons. There are NO good or bad aspects to it, but only different motivations for engaging in it.

For example: Suicide ganking a high-sec hauler heading to jita is no different than ganking a nullsec hauler collecting PI goods. Both are totally acceptable and good for the game.

Highsec War Dec'ing of a small/new corp is no different than a 1000 man nullsec alliance destroying the Sov of some new upcoming small nullsec group.

As for PvE (which is extremely broad in nature) is about making isk/profit, world shaping, colecting tears, getting new toys, and many other reasons.

These two activities aren't separated.... AT ALL.... but are completely intertwined with each other. New and old players can successfully PvE, New and old players can successfully PvP. Both are actually two sides of the same coin... and this attempt to distinguish them is a fallacy.

The truth is, EvE should NOT be presented along some PvE to PvP Spectrum, but long the Risk vs Reward spectrum!!

On one end, you have the risk adverse: Those who avoid taking risks. Players who only join fights they know they can win because they're smarter than an NPC, or because they have enough friends in the battle to ensure victory, or because losing their ship isn't actually a loss... etc...

On the other end, you have the risk takers: Those who enjoy competition, those who aren't afraid of losses, those who embrace alternative victory conditions, those who are addicted to adrenaline, those who really enrich the game. These are the players that have truly rewarding EvE experiences!!

The truth is, almost everyone starts off as a conservative, risk adverse player, and gradually moves to more risky activities as they build up a "comfortable" reserve of skills and assets that allow them to grow thick enough callouses that losing ships no longer hurts as much. There are a few that embrace the pain and don't need the numbing, but they are fewer and farther between.
Jita Joe2 Jones
taxes are for communists
#15 - 2012-08-04 12:46:49 UTC
Its a nasty little game , sadistic behavior is encouraged. too much IMO, My number one corp rule, " if I cant drive to your house in 5 minutes and shoot you with my real gun , you can't join my corp"
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-08-04 12:50:46 UTC
Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:
Its a nasty little game , sadistic behavior is encouraged. too much IMO, My number one corp rule, " if I cant drive to your house in 5 minutes and shoot you with my real gun , you can't join my corp"


it takes me 5-10 minutes to join your corp

just have to start a character, really

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-08-04 13:23:04 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Jita Joe2 Jones wrote:
Its a nasty little game , sadistic behavior is encouraged. too much IMO, My number one corp rule, " if I cant drive to your house in 5 minutes and shoot you with my real gun , you can't join my corp"


it takes me 5-10 minutes to join your corp

just have to start a character, really



You're not that Desturned as you like to look heh? Lol

brb
Hypercake Mix
#18 - 2012-08-04 13:57:49 UTC
They stand to benefit from keeping people in high-sec, regardless of how boring it is.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-08-04 16:06:16 UTC
If you want to get more people into lowsec,
just encourage all the outlaws to move to highsec ........................

:)
Mechael
The Sympoiesis Assembly
#20 - 2012-08-04 16:42:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
Luc Chastot wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Eve isn't about competition...Kill Boards.


WTF? Killboards are competitive.



Killboards are also completely ********. But everything else Kryss said up there made complete sense. Remember: pretend to be a pig in order to eat the tiger. 9 times out of 10 chest beating and ePeen measuring contests hurt far more than they help.

Goons and TEST have figured this out. That's why they rant about how "bad at EVE" they are when they are anything but. Meanwhile, "leet PvP" alliances crumble in a snowball effect when they start to take too many losses.

EDIT: Wow. When did ******** become a censorable word? Why does EVE censor me now? This only encourages me to rebel.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
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