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Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 215
Sarik Olecar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire Likes received: 215	#521 - 2012-08-01 13:52:47 UTC 1 Nankeen Heron wrote: CCP Phantom wrote: EVE Online: Inferno 1.2 will be deployed on Wednesday, August 8. Was it deployed? I haven't seen a patch and/or client update. Lets take my Timemachine and find out! Set Date: One week into the future! Hows my posting? Call 1-800-747-7633 to leave feedback.

Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects 842
Salpun Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects Likes received: 842	#522 - 2012-08-01 15:16:43 UTC \| Edited by: Salpun New rigs are still missing their bill of materials tab BR #141823 If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide See you around the universe.

Kirin Intarca

Lezaruss Industrial Systems

Likes received: 6

#523 - 2012-08-01 16:03:38 UTC | Edited by: Kirin Intarca

Wiu Ming wrote:

Kirin Intarca wrote:

The flaming these forums give to the Devs sickens me...

Sorry to have hurt your feelings there buddy, but...

Kirin Intarca wrote:

The Devs do not ignore the player feedback...

You're talking about EVE Online, right? Aside from Punkturis and a few others, it seems like ignoring player feedback is exactly what 'The Devs' do best. There were numerous posts about the terribleness of the new UI while it was being tested on Sisi, yet 'The Devs' put their hands to their ears & pulled a "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA" yet again.

Kirin Intarca wrote:

The unified inventory is a great addition...

... in your opinion. And you're certainly entitled, and I'm sure there are lots of players who would agree with you. However...

Kirin Intarca wrote:

Don't whine, gripe, and sob about a problem when talking to the devs...

when you've got literally hundreds, maybe even thousands of your player base telling you IF IT AIN'T BROKE FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST DON'T EFFING 'FIX IT' yet they do it anyway (again), incredulity leads to frustration leads to anger. Again.

It's up to CCP to decide whether they'll listen to their player base or not. When rage boiled over and resulted in the Jita riots, CCP actually said "ok - we get it, sorry!!! this won't happen again, we promise!!" and most of us instantly forgave and forgot. There were piles of praise heaped on the devs for that simple acknowledgement, which is what makes the UI fiasco even more frustrating and difficult to comprehend.

The behavior CCP is instilling (has instilled?) in us is this: b!tch and we'll ignore you, totally lose your minds and rage at us, drop your accounts, scream at us in whatever forums you possibly can, and maybe if we're in a good mood, we'll listen. And that, good sir, is something your paying customers should never be subjected to.

ok I did type a good rebuttal and I don't want to type the whole thing again but the short version...

I agree the Devs need to be a little more open with their minds and let the players see that they are listening. It will help with the flaming and the frustration.

The changes to things that are not broken are so the game can continue to evolve. If nothing changed that isn't broken a competitor playing eve can brainstorm and eventually steal a lot of players from EVE. CCP need to make money to keep the game going and pay their developers hence a Uni.Inv. It didn't need fixed, but the change they made makes many things easier. IT still needs polishing and a few more features, but over all i am satisfied on what it is attempting to do. They just need to get the fine tuning down and patched.

CCP you're doing a great job. Try to be very open and explain not just the what is changing but the why you think it is better for the game. Both in the game world, and the real life world. Again, because it will help satisfy and reduce player frustration.

I have one suggestion for the Uni.Inv . If I type a filter into the search block, could it transfer to the other segments of the tree as well. For example: I type Antimatter to filter out everything but my antimatter charges in my ship cargo bay to check ammo supply. I would like it if that filter carried over to my item hanger so it automatically will filter to my antimatter charges so i can quickly grab more ammo. Other than that, As I am a security officer in my Corp. Opening the corp hanger takes a while to populate because the server must query all the member hangers as well. it is about a 10 to 15 second delay to expand the corp hanger tree. What can be done to improve performance in that issue?

Jonuts

The Arrow Project

Likes received: 304

#524 - 2012-08-01 16:40:02 UTC

Kirin Intarca wrote:

Changes to whats not broken are dangerous. You have to carefully think it out, and be willing to go through several iterations on the test server to make sure you're delivering a new and BETTER product. What did we get saddled with this inventory? They didn't carefully think it out, and they were unwilling to go through several iterations on the test server, leaving us with broken pile of **** that hasn't even had basic functionality restored yet! So even the argument of "To prevent stagnation" is a foolish argument. It's like cutting off your own arm because you got complacent with your life. Don't break something you use ALL THE TIME, do something new instead! Frankly, this game doesn't need new features if CCP isn't willing to put in the work to make them useable. So far, to the player base, they've proven unwilling to make the inventory useable.

CCP Punkturis

C C P

C C P Alliance

Likes received: 5,769

#525 - 2012-08-02 10:59:32 UTC

Salpun wrote:

CCP Arrow wrote:

Salpun wrote:

CCP Arrow wrote:

Callidus Dux wrote:

CCP Arrow wrote:

The 'Shift' Setting discussion is to get a better idea of what solves the problem for most. In this case, having a separate 'Shift' setting that only applies to the Inventory would be optimal.

Yeah! You have hit it! Shift+click is for me just a problem for the inventory. All other SHift+Clicks are acceptable and can stay as it was till 22.05.2012.

So with the setting turned on, these things would work without holding Shift:

Clicking on the Cargo button in the HUD, would open up a new secondary cargo window.
Double-click on wreck in Overview, would open up a new secondary cargo window.
Double clicking on the name of a tab in the Index tree of the Inventory, would open up the content of that tab in a new secondary inventory window.

Is this accurate for how the setting would function?

This would change the behavior of double-click in the index tree, when the setting is turned off, double-click would expand the tree (if there is one) when double-clicking on the name of a tab in the index tree.

With it turned on however, it opens up the content of the tab in a new secondary inventory window. That means that if it has a sub-tree, the user would need to click on the sub-tree arrow to collapse it. Would that be acceptable?

Sounds about right Big smile

We are also adding the ability to drag tabs out of the index tree to open them as new secondary windows, that will always work, with or without this setting turned on.

Add the orca Corp hanger back to the right click and I think you have a winner. Are these changes live on Sisi?

Orca Corp Hangar and Ship Maintenance Bay have been added back to right click internally, should be on Sisi soon™

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥


Salpun Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects Likes received: 842	#526 - 2012-08-02 11:12:13 UTC Thanks Orca pilots thank you. Was the drone bay on right click when you do not have a drone bay defect fixed as well? If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide See you around the universe.


CCP Punkturis C C P C C P Alliance Likes received: 5,769	#527 - 2012-08-02 11:12:45 UTC Salpun wrote: Thanks Orca pilots thank you. Was the drone bay on right click when you do not have a drone bay defect fixed as well? yes ♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥

Perkone Caldari State 571
Kusum Fawn Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 571	#528 - 2012-08-02 17:03:57 UTC Thank you CCP Punkturis Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

rafael Elarik

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 6

#529 - 2012-08-02 18:07:55 UTC

i have to admit this is one of the only games ive played where the devs seems to really interact with the general populace,quite refreshing.If the "passing the buck" type of attitude does'nt continue they might even garner a measure of professionalism.I for one am very apperciative of your feedback,but dont shed your negative community feedback onto others,it's very un-professional.Dont take this as an insult,take this as free customer relations advice.While smiley faces and cute symbols etc are nice what people really want are results.

Yezenia

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 3

#530 - 2012-08-02 18:23:02 UTC

Jonuts wrote:

This is what happens when you set internal deadlines and then aren't willing to push a release back when something isn't ready for release. I can appreciate the desire to meet the deadlines, but not when they end up releasing an "improved" feature in May that is so broken that the original functionality can't be restored until the winter expansion.


Jonuts The Arrow Project Likes received: 304	#531 - 2012-08-02 19:15:41 UTC 1 CCP Punkturis wrote: Orca Corp Hangar and Ship Maintenance Bay have been added back to right click internally, should be on Sisi soon™ I <3 you. Marry me? You get put on the case, and days later ***** almost fixed. <3 <3 <3 <3 That being said, are all the other bays being returned to right click as well?

CCP Punkturis

C C P

C C P Alliance

Likes received: 5,769

#532 - 2012-08-02 20:02:02 UTC | Edited by: CCP Punkturis

Jonuts wrote:

CCP Punkturis wrote:

Orca Corp Hangar and Ship Maintenance Bay have been added back to right click internally, should be on Sisi soon™

I <3 you. Marry me? You get put on the case, and days later ***** almost fixed. <3 <3 <3 <3

That being said, are all the other bays being returned to right click as well?

I think so, you should try it out on Sisi and see if you see any more missing Big smile

(btw I'm not "on the case" I'm just the only user interface programmer in the office this week because of vacations so I'm helping out with a few things Blink

)

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥

Jonuts

The Arrow Project

Likes received: 304

#533 - 2012-08-02 20:10:59 UTC

CCP Punkturis wrote:

Jonuts wrote:

CCP Punkturis wrote:

Orca Corp Hangar and Ship Maintenance Bay have been added back to right click internally, should be on Sisi soon™

I <3 you. Marry me? You get put on the case, and days later ***** almost fixed. <3 <3 <3 <3

That being said, are all the other bays being returned to right click as well?

I think so, you should try it out on Sisi and see if you see any more missing Big smile

(btw I'm not "on the case" I'm just the only user interface programmer in the office this week because of vacations so I'm helping out with a few things Blink

)

Hey, someone said you were working on it while someone else is out the office, and you make more progress in two days than the normal team did in two months. You're on the case as far as I'm concerned :D

CCP Punkturis

C C P

C C P Alliance

Likes received: 5,769

#534 - 2012-08-02 20:15:27 UTC

Jonuts wrote:

CCP Punkturis wrote:

Jonuts wrote:

CCP Punkturis wrote:

Orca Corp Hangar and Ship Maintenance Bay have been added back to right click internally, should be on Sisi soon™

I <3 you. Marry me? You get put on the case, and days later ***** almost fixed. <3 <3 <3 <3

That being said, are all the other bays being returned to right click as well?

I think so, you should try it out on Sisi and see if you see any more missing Big smile

(btw I'm not "on the case" I'm just the only user interface programmer in the office this week because of vacations so I'm helping out with a few things Blink

)

aww thanks but that's not really fair Blink

they've been working hard on trying to make things right, there is a bunch of fixes coming from them next week!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥

Bubanni

Corus Aerospace

Likes received: 854

#535 - 2012-08-02 20:56:26 UTC | Edited by: Bubanni

I also know arrow and the inventory guys already did add those things, punkt simply fixed their fix, isn't that right somewhat?

Arrow also said he would add back the shortcuts of ship and items hangar, these would open in secondary windows (opens with minimized tree view) which will basicly make the new inventory look just like the old one if you only use those :) and everyone who likes the new design can still use the new design

With both that and the right click shortcuts fixed very little of the old functionality that was removed, is missing :) (can't even think of anything from the top of my head that affects my daily inventory use)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Jonuts

The Arrow Project

Likes received: 304

#536 - 2012-08-02 21:14:35 UTC

CCP Punkturis wrote:

Jonuts wrote:

CCP Punkturis wrote:

Jonuts wrote:

CCP Punkturis wrote:

Orca Corp Hangar and Ship Maintenance Bay have been added back to right click internally, should be on Sisi soon™

I <3 you. Marry me? You get put on the case, and days later ***** almost fixed. <3 <3 <3 <3

That being said, are all the other bays being returned to right click as well?

I think so, you should try it out on Sisi and see if you see any more missing Big smile

(btw I'm not "on the case" I'm just the only user interface programmer in the office this week because of vacations so I'm helping out with a few things Blink

)

aww thanks but that's not really fair Blink

they've been working hard on trying to make things right, there is a bunch of fixes coming from them next week!

Maybe, but the IMPORTANT fixes show up when you do. Coincidence? I think not. <3

Kirin Intarca

Lezaruss Industrial Systems

Likes received: 6

#537 - 2012-08-02 23:01:59 UTC

Mors Sanctitatis wrote:

Having a degree in Mechanical Engineering (BSME), and then going back to school and getting a second degree in Game Art & Design (BFA), I have to say that I'm more critical than ever of the development team. Particularly because I went to school and have practical experience developing games, and the creative effort and the design philosophy is usually lacking. Usually, the things I'm most critical about are game mechanics decisions, but regardless, the number of glaring art issues and other defects are such that if I turned in an assignment with such mistakes, I'd get an F in any of my art asset classes. I actually submitted ships from Eve to my art instructors once for a critique of the designs and they were universally derided as 'crap', and this is just speaking from a purely technical art design sense- e.g. basic approaches to shape, form, flow etc.

So no, I won't give them a break. The world doesn't give me a break. Why should anyone else get different? I imagine that the shortcomings of the organization that is CCP isn't from the line developers, but from the mid and senior level leadership. The technicians- the coders and artists, are surely passionate about what they do. It's the decision makers that ruin their talent by wasting it in useless directions.

Yes I agree, as far as the basic art principles it is rather... non-traditional. But again, its art. While your instructors are saying they are crap because of approaches on shape and color theory would be correct, if they didn't "break the mold" and went more traditional, everyone would just be saying they are flying an X-Wing, or the Millennium Falcon in EVE. Even look at the Nxy super carrier, it is quite reminiscent of the Millennium Falcon. So they aren't trying to get an A from their previous art professors they are trying to make a unique game.

I am more critical of the mechanics og games since I started my GAD degree, however I am not going to jump into criticizing their customer service on our level, when the issue is the heads at the top of the CCP food chain. Most of the Devs and CCP personnel that actually get down and post in these forums are probably in a daily battle with cooperate heads in giving them more resources to fight for the players and not worry quite as much about the bottom line of projected profitability.

A question for CCP:
Do the owners/Board of Directors ever read these forums or even play EVE?

Kirin Intarca

Lezaruss Industrial Systems

Likes received: 6

#538 - 2012-08-02 23:13:10 UTC

Jonuts wrote:

Sorry I missed your post in my previous responses.

Yes I fully agree, sometimes even the best companies try to push out something too soon. Personally I would prefer too soon than too late. Good example is the latest Duke Nukem game. It would have been awesome... if it had been released the year it was intended to and not ten years later.

However, looking at a few things that could have been worked on a bit longer: Battlefield 3 online multi-player Server stability.
the first few Android Smart Phones
The Personal Computer (and i mean the ones waaaaaaay back when)
****XBOX 360*****<----- big fiasco with that one

even though they released a little to early with a good number of bugs, eventually they got fixed and maybe even faster than they would have discovered in Testing. Now the test server had an outcry on the bugs and they still released too early. Opps, that was a mistake CCP you may have been able to hold onto the idea for a few more weeks/months but still released it. However, it is out now, let them continue to work on it and improve it. We already got CCP fixing the orca and corp hangers. Lets see what happens on the 8th for Uni.Inv.


Salpun Global Telstar Federation Offices Masters of Flying Objects Likes received: 842	#539 - 2012-08-03 16:19:28 UTC Some players on sisi are getting a 1 Hz flicker on undock with the latest patch. Graphics cards FX 2700M and Nvidia 460. My client is fine though. If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide See you around the universe.

EG CORP 21
JaseNZ EG CORP Likes received: 21	#540 - 2012-08-03 22:51:35 UTC Salpun wrote: Some players on sisi are getting a 1 Hz flicker on undock with the latest patch. Graphics cards FX 2700M and Nvidia 460. My client is fine though. Mine flickers like a mofo. Windows 7 64bit ATI Radeon HD6970x2 using Catalyst 12.6 drivers.