EVE New Citizens Q&A

*sniffs the air* I smell a troll.
But if your not a troll Mr OP. Then I suggest going back to WoW if you want to be spoon fed quests and items.

New Eden is a harsh place to be in either man up or get out.

That's only half true. To release the full potential of any single ship you'll need to train for months.

It's not unique to EVE that knowing how to play has an impact on the outcome of a battle. What is quite a unique feature to EVE is that you lose your stuff in the process if you lose a ship. And those two things aren't related.

I don't recommend people to go play EVE. Once CCP introduced capital ships they took away the option for any player to compete over nullsec systems within a year. You're more or less forced to stay "foot soldier" for a very, very long time simply by the limited yearly SP acquisition. Which doesn't mean you can't do anything, there's plenty to learn and discover, your possibilities are just limited.

EVE is the one game around that's the most vet friendly and rewards "months of subscription payed" more than any other game, simply by its fixed SP acquisition mechanics. In my opinion that's not a good thing and the main reason EVE doesn't have 1 million players but 100k with 3 accounts each.
It's for a reason that EVE may well be the most top heavy game around with a lot of old players and not a lot of new ones. We all know that if CCP put up a new server where everyone would have to start from scratch no new player in his/her right mind would even consider start playing TQ.

Yes in other games low XP players have an inherent disadvantage. But at least they have the opportunity to do something about it.

Oh look some more trained monkeys bashing WoW because they heard that's the thing to do. Are they the same people that think the value of a thought equals the age and spelling of the poster or who reply with those witty "1/10 troll" and "umad" one-liners? Truth is most of these people either haven't even tried WoW or were so bad at it they didn't get to experience anything remotely challenging, definitely not the part that could make a thick skinned CS player cry with frustration. But hey 10+ million people play it and if my game is better, by extension I must be better than 10 million other people right? Wonder why you rarely see WoW gamers talking **** about EVE...

Anyway OP I understand how you feel but you forget one thing: Skills are not the exclusive source of power or "levels" in EVE, among others there is ISK. They are interchangeable to an extent and the latter CAN be grinded. For example I expanded that metaphorical cage to a size I was comfortable with by playing with multiple accounts from the beginning; that is one example of exchanging ISK for accelerated skill progression. I would encourage you not to think of skills as a barrier between you and fun. If you don't like playing the game as is, no amount of skills will change that and indeed EVE is not the game for you. But if you can let go that urge to get to "level 85" - which is not even attainable in EVE - and think of skills as a series of meaningful choices that continuously expand your possibilities you might find it a welcome change from other games.

Well it seems to me like the original poster is missing the point. Like many have stated, the only prison that exists is the one you've erected in your mind. Are you free to do everything in the game within 30 days of playing? No, of course not. I couldn't do that in WoW either. However, you do have more things unlocked to you on a sliding scale from day one compared to most theme-park MMOs.

I think many of you are missing the huge difference between linear level-based theme park MMOs and sandbox style MMOs. One guides you through the game from a beginning point to an end point. That's right, WoW ends. It's basically a single player game that has massive people online. X amount of content, then you wait around doing nothing (using your metaphor bashing skill training queues) whilst you wait for the "new expansion". You eventually finish all the content though. Every theme park MMO is like this. The quality of this style, however, is that it gives certain people the gratification of "completing something" or "winning". It's a nice little stroke to your ego, if that's what you need. It sure makes you feel good when you can race to the end and be "boss" within a month running raid content over and over.

The thing about sandbox MMOs is there is no endgame. There is no pat on the back or stroke of ego saying you won, or you've completed the game and mastered it all. Especially in an environment where there is constant PVP and war (which all the best sandbox games: UO, EVE, and Darkfall have). You're constantly being challenged as a veteran player to retain your "title" by the up and coming younger players, who challenge to make a name for themselves and leave a mark on EVE. The content in sandbox games is 40% developer created and 60% user created. It sounds like you simply have only been relying on the developer created content, waiting for someone to hold your hand and walk you out into the literally dozens or hundreds of things to do in EVE. Here's where sandboxes are challenging for some people - they can't handle the freedom. They simply get overwhelmed and lost and lock themselves in a station with excuses about not being able to compete with the veterans. In reality, they should be hatching plans, building bridges, thinking of ways to possibly befriend, infiltrate, and destroy those veterans from the inside out. Turn veterans against each other. You could literally take down entire corporations by simply instilling some social engineering into your gameplay. Cause some drama and distrust and let it eat away.

That's the deal, with games like EVE, Ultima Online, and Darkfall, there's no way you can come in all by yourself and feel immortal about your existence, like the feeling passed off by other level based theme park MMOs. Those exist to make you feel great like you're one of the top players simply because you have "the best gear and are max level", when in reality 99% of the rest of the population of the game has the same. It's terribly boring for those who, when they game, bring their imaginations to the field. Sandbox MMOs are about synchronizing your imagination and near endless possibilities with a consistent, socially dynamic digital environment.

Playing MMOs since 1997 (Ultima Online), I've been around long enough to realize not everyone's cup of tea is the sandbox style. It's difficult for people of a certain philosophy to enjoy, they have been developed to game around a sense of instant gratification and return for their time. Sadly, this leaves many of them hopping from one game to the next, always getting bored and never feeling satiated with any game. If that sounds like you, maybe it's time for a change in philosophy, or perhaps a change in hobbies.


Just my .02

Yeah, but unfortunately what I'm trying to share is that not everyone wants to be the same, or have a level playing field. Also, sandbox MMOs and MMORPGs in general are supposed to cater to a more social gamer. This opens up a whole new world of possibilities when it comes to bringing your enemies down. EVE especially caters to this. You have to scam, trick, infiltrate, manipulate your way into your enemy. It's as much about what you say as what you do in terms of measuring your success.

I've played those games before that you mention. Being on a even field with a bunch of clones exactly like you doesn't mean it's player skill vs player skill. You can still be blobbed and swarmed. You can still be "rez killed" . You can still be "matched outside your rating". There's inequalities in every game. The sheer fact of the matter is when everyone's potential is limited like in most capped level theme park MMOs, luck more often then not supplemented by a series of critical hits will determine your outcome. That's rolls of the dice my friend, not skill.

I'm not saying they're bad games, I enjoyed them a lot. However, I didn't enjoy the fact that everything was handed to everyone, and everyone copied the same character build, skills, and UI as everyone else. It was like fighting a mirror of yourself and nothing was surprising or interesting. In EVE, there are almost endless possibilities of fits that one could use. See, you see SP as a measurable factor, but I don't really. Your character build in EVE is the fitting of your ship, which can be changed almost instantly (a short trip to a station for refitting) The fact of the matter is, people with 100 million skill points can't use more than something like 30-40 million of them at a time, if that much. Piloting an Amarr BS, you aren't using your Gallente skills, your missile skills, your industry and trade skills... etc. How much does that cut out? Tens of millions. Most of those skill points in the veteran come from cross training and training for different ship classes. Sure, as a new player you may not have as many options, but you can excel and be on an even field in the options you have. So what is it then? Since effectively skill points aren't the major factor. Well, it's that these players have succeeded in the social gaming aspect of MMOs. They've banded together with similar friends for protection and fleeting. Their circle has thrived and grown, and become a giant. Does this make EVE broke? No, this says EVE works. EVE is at war on a global scale. This makes that danger more imminent, since you don't have to run around an overpopulated city and queue for an "even fight" to be handed to you. You want the field to be even against that blob? Make your own, unite some corps or alliances and start claiming your piece of the pie. Trust me, these big, veteran alliances and players WANT fights. They don't want street sweeping battles of domination either, they want good fights that will be challenging and fun.

For those of us who want a challenge, up to and including possibly having to gang up with several friends to bring down One veteran (player, corporation, or even Alliance), EVE has established that for us. In EVE, almost everyone is the underdog. I guess I just enjoy that challenge, and I know other people who love EVE share that same feeling. Many people I know who have high SP characters end up selling them off and starting over because they enjoy that challenge.

I'm 3 days old and about to be in a Cruiser later tonight. I'll train up some more skills to make myself better at it and then starting training/planning on my next ship. I've already ran L1 all the way up to L4 missions with friends, helping where I was needed, if it be tackle, dps, salvage, whatever.

In 3 days I've done all this. I still have 2 weeks of my trial left. In that time I'll have the skills to run L2 Missions solo in my Vexor. And this is just the path I picked for my character. There are many more to pick and many more things you can accomplish in the same amount of time.

This is not a traditional MMO. You CAN NOT do everything in this game, attempting to do so sets you up for instant failure at all of it and a very boring game. Pick something you want to do and learn to be great at it. train the skills you need, not the ones you don't. You don't need to train Industry if you are going to be a PvP character that never even manufactures a single run of ammo.

Choose your path.

Safespots = hours of scanning.
Fitting = my ship's better, I win.

Yeah you pretty much supported that blokes argument, GJ.

Might I counter with....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Q6M6pO_2s


I saw the....other MMO reference and had to read the thread for the lulz.

To all the nay sayers of EVE Online, and to those that think that WoW is better: STFU and stop playing. No one is forcing you to play EVE. If you think WoW is sooo much better, why are you still here?

And to all those that say that the vets ruin the game for the newbies, I have one place for you to remember: The Barrens. When I played WoW, all the vets end up in Barrens ganking newbies. So, **** off.

EVE is a niche game, its not for the masses. Thats the reason for the 100k subscription count. Plus, the avg age that plays EVE is in their 30's. The avg age of those that play WoW about 13yrs old. I don't like playing with little children, do you?

If I've offended you in anyway, I don't care. Your very presence offends the **** out of me. You come into my home, you make fun of my family, and you expect sympathy? **** on you and yours and your moral arrogance.

We have a saying in EVE: Those that leave WoW to play EVE, then go back to WoW, raise the avg IQ of both.

Buh-bye and have a nice day.

No Hugs for you.

Fun read through this thread.

WoW is a different game than EVE - better? Not for some, yes for others. (it's up to 85 levels now? I quit right after the cap was raised to 70).

If you find that game more enjoyable, feel free to go there and play. This game is different and should be seen as such and, quite probably, not a game you'll find interesting.

There are levels in EVE and if "DING!" is your goal - spend the next 3 years playing and you'll have hundreds of skills at "level 5" - the max level for those skills. Just don't expect to be "a master" of a lot of more complex ares but you will have a lot of level 5 skills.

In games like WoW, getting "max level" means nothing. Once there, you start playing - the prelude is the leveling up process then the gear chasing begins and continues forever.

It's different in so many ways... Go find one more like that and you'll be happier.

It's a shame SWG is fading away, you might have liked that game. It had classes and levels and gear chasing - space combat that was an FPS vs the usual MMO style... If you didn't like leveling up, you could download bots from links and it was legal to do so - big reason I left was the bots but many like the idea of "not having to level up" and the like.

Just don't compare apples to oranges and call the oranges "junk" to orange lovers. That's bad form and shows you have no clue about differences in tastes.