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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Eve is Broken

First post
Author
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#61 - 2011-10-16 14:01:23 UTC
Indigo Amar wrote:

I guess thats one of the big things I really dislike about eve, is that you compared a level 5 vs a Level 80 in cookiecutter MMOs, to somone in eve who has played for TWO MONTHS versus you who has played for TWO YEARS, and obviously stating that you have a giant clear advantage, not by your experience, skill or knowledge, but simply because you have been paying for the game for 2 years with this character whereas the other guy has only been paying for 2 months.

And what has those 2 years given that player? That may be 2 years invested into Leadership and Mining skills, and when you face him in battle, your crappy 2-month noob character is actually much more qualified to kick ass.

That's the thing in EVE. You can actually nearly max out all practical skills for a branch in a couple of months. A new player who has spent 5 months training only to fly Interceptors and T2 Frigates will be just as good as a 7-year player, if they meet in the same ship on the field of battle.

The older player's advantage comes from two things: his increased flexibility - provided he actually has his entire hangar in his back pocket, and his contacts.

The first factor can be completely nullified through tactics, intelligence, and numbers. The second factor isn't difficult to counter either - just find a corp and make some friends willing to back you up. In WoW you'd never see a swarm of Level 2 noobs take down a bunch of Level 85 experts - but in EVE you see that kind of roaming gangs every day.

It's not the size of your skill points that matters, it's how you use them.

Indigo Amar wrote:
As far as I know, the skill points are linear and keep going up at a constant rate no matter how many you have, I guess I would be more interested if the system was like the awful game that is Mortal Online, where you are free to skill up every skill in the game, but you have a skill cap and after you reach the skill cap, you can only shift your points around by choosing which skills you wish to have points deducted from as you gain new skill points for different skills... so its not like Darkfall where you literally have to play for 5 months or so to even be a match for a veteran, which, like eve online, has nothing at all to do with your actual skill, expeience or knowledge.

The skill points go up at the same rate (well, faster once you can afford some advanced implants), but the skills themselves take more skill points to reach the next level.

Each skillbook has a multiplier stat. That stat denotes how much more difficult the skill is to train compared to a noob-level skillbook. For example: Level 1 of an x3 skill takes three times longer than Level 1 of an x1 skill. Simplistic, I know, but considering that the Amarr Titan skill has a whooping x16 multiplier, you're looking at months just to get up a single level in one skill.

And again, there might not be a skill point cap throughout the entire assortment of skills - but there are definitely skill caps in different areas. The number of points you can pour into Navigation skills, Gunnery skills, frigates, corporation management, etc, are finite. Once you max them out, you can't get any better, and have to figure out something else to train! Everyone that has maxed out Gunnery is equally good at those skills, no matter if they are 1 year or 7 years old.

Indigo Amar wrote:
Everyone i know who has jumped into Darkfall with me has allways become completely interested in the game, they love it, its like far beyond any of those cookie cutter mmorpgs to them, but they allways quit before their trial even ends because they figure THIS out, and these types of games wont last with these kind of systems..

EVE has lasted longer than WoW has, and has had a much more stable growth of players. Dedicated, loyal players.

Make of that what you will.

Indigo Amar wrote:
But now i figure I wont last in this game either way, I don't care for Making ISK, I don't care for the Industry stuff, I dont want to be a "Market Warrior", I just like flying through the galaxy with the music and colors, I enjoyed the new tutorial and the captains quarters wich many eve players consider as pointless as cruising through open space, I really just want to have fun as well.. I guess i just wanna fly around and have fun, while the rest of the community and the game is focused on.. somthing else.. a world of numbers and machines. "I guess I wouldn't last in this 'game' either way"...

There is definitely room for some pointless fun, especially if you can figure out ways to combine it with some casual PvP or PvE. Exploration can be entertaining, casual, or dangerous depending on where you go - and means you get to fly through a lot of specially built complexes that other players never see.

You definitely don't have to get involved with the market, or industry, or hardcore PvP if you don't want to. I personally do a bit of everything from time to time, because I enjoy trying new things, but mostly I just cruise around, doing easy exploration sites, occasionally stumbling on a cache of valuables I have to bravely run past a pirate blockade - or worse, angry Sleepers.

The game can accommodate almost any playstyle - something WoW definitely cannot boast. In EVE you set your own challenges. There are people who make it their goal to crush all rival alliances, to dominate the Shield Extender market, or just to murder all miners - and there are those who decide to visit every system in the galaxy, or become the most notorious space lesbian roleplayer, or just spin their ships because running a 1000-man alliance means they don't have time to undock!

In EVE you can do whatever you want. Ultimately, the game mechanics only exist to keep supply and demand in the market fluctuating. Everything outside that is in your head.
Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2011-10-17 01:17:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Zanzbar
Mocam wrote:

Just don't compare apples to oranges and call the oranges "junk" to orange lovers. That's bad form and shows you have no clue about differences in tastes.


this is exactly the way i feel. its one thing to come into game and express your concerns about mechanics and ask how other people manage to play with or around them, its another to come in and tell a bunch of long time players that their game is broken when you are still on the trial period yourself.



on a side note one of the things that makes me prefer eve over games such as wow, and yes i have played wow to max level in the past, is the fact that even if a person has been playing for years a resourceful group of newbies can still pose a threat. in wow your lucky to even land a hit on someone over a few levels above you, in eve its actually EASIER to hit that huge ship that vet is flying and his larger guns have a hard time landing any blows on your small little frigate due to your superior maneuverability.

and when it comes to player abilities in combat i know some people who have played less then a year that i would rather have in a small pvp fleet with me then many of the players I've known since i started 4 years ago
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#63 - 2011-10-17 15:30:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Indigo Amar wrote:

What is Everything a New Player can Do and Accomplish within their First 30 Days?


Can't do it alphabetically (because I can't be bothered, really), but here we go:

Mining
Trading
Exploring
Piracy
Bounty Hunting
Stock mogul
Corporate CEO
Shipbuilder
Manufacturer
Militia
Gun-runner
Smuggler
Booster peddler
Shipping/Transport
Mercenary
Mission-running

Now, 'mercenary' and 'bounty-hunter' are a stretch, they're both kind of the same thing. So are smuggler, booster peddler and trader, but 'transport' isn't so far off with decent industrial skills.

I guess that's only about ten or twelve days, if you really want to push it, but I suppose we can't be too picky with a sandbox game, can we....?

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Ravi Amergin
Perkone
Caldari State
#64 - 2011-10-28 19:46:41 UTC
HAHA just compare to runes of mgaic or aika instead and you'd have less angry squids attacking you

Indigo Amar wrote:
ninjaholic wrote:
Indigo Amar wrote:
This is my third trial of Eve Online, and I have to share the one thing that has stopped me in my tracks every time, the game breaking character advancement system that seems to turn the whole game into an illusion. One of this games major ideas - visions - that players put most of their time into is that of the whole character advancement system, where as you put time into the game you will become better, more capable, and more and more viable. However, in Eve Online, this is not a reality, and is nothing but an illusion in the game, where the player is put in a cage with a prison sentence from the start.

lets go to another Dimension to view what I see in Eve from another angle, in the World of Warcraft


I stopped reading there.

While I might go into detail about how I now regard you in the same light as a spoiled 4 year old with ADHD after 9 litres of Coca Cola and suffering from birth with some kind of palsy, I will instead ask this; Why, in the name of veldspar, did you come back to Eve twice?


I came back to Eve Twice because it is the vision of Eve that is Great, its what Eve wants to be that I would love to support, I say this later in the post... now, can you tell me why exactly you stopped reading there so I tear you apart for thinking that I'm comparing anything to World of Warcraft with that paragraph? It is simply a metaphor to attempt to show others what I see.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#65 - 2011-10-28 20:23:52 UTC

Horatius Caul wrote:

You definitely don't have to get involved with the market, or industry, or hardcore PvP if you don't want to.

In EVE you set your own challenges.

In EVE you can do whatever you want. Ultimately, the game mechanics only exist to keep supply and demand in the market fluctuating. Everything outside that is in your head.



A lot of good points were made, but these three are probably the most important that you have to keep in mind.

Excepting the PVP thing (seriously, undocking is PVP) ... you can rely on other players to handle the stuff you don't want to.

Make yourself "useful" -- learn how to scan down wormholes or sites, then fleet up with corpies to run the site/explore the wormhole. Ask the industrial guys to make you a new shiny... etc.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#66 - 2011-10-28 22:36:28 UTC
Jennifer Starling wrote:
Tagera wrote:
Safespots do not take hours to scan down. As for fittings, not really...I've had plenty of nice tech2s and other nicer ships smacked by cheap fit frigates, destroyers and other bits and pieces. So the idea that fitting=my ships better I win is false. Actually theres alot of people that lose tech2s to people in tech1 easily fit ships. Same with the expensive faction stuff.

Yes sure. But that's only half true. In other games I've also defeated players with higher level or better gear because my setup was simply paper when they were stone. That's nothing which is unique in EVE.

In EVE the results are still far more often at the advantage of the high SP player with more speed, damage, tank. Let alone when you're encountering capitals, even when they don't instantly kill you their massive HP doesn't give you any chance to destroy it before next DT or gives plenty of time to call in reinforcements.


Can a level 2 player in WoW do anything to a level 85, regardless of equipment?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Zethika
Hell's Kitchen Space Edition
#67 - 2011-10-29 10:42:20 UTC
In EvE, skillpoints are, beyond the 1-2 months of training the basics within your chosen field, if even that, nothing but an optimizer.
I'll gladly agree that a 7 year old veteran will have the supreme advantage on a "level" playing field, against a 2 month old player that's just started. I'll also gladly agree with you that the "end-game", in your sense of the word, takes a really long time to get to.

What I will not agree to is the word "end-game" can be applied in any meaningful sense to EvE. What you are missing is that whatever you choose to do in EvE, save for a few select professions and niches which have already been pointed out, you can do whatever you like within the first month of the game.
EvE is so much more based around the knowledge YOU possess, than it is the amount of skillpoints you have available to you. This knowledge enables you to train the right skills, pick the right modules for the job, the right ship, train for it and use the next best thing untill you have access to the best.
What you can do in EvE and can't in WoW, is play the actual game long before you are the best that you can be.

In short, a week of reading guides and the forums, or you know - playing the game, are more giving and much more enjoyable, than a year of training your skills while doing nothing but ship spinning.
Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#68 - 2011-10-31 13:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyric Lahnder
Jimminy Christmas... With the enumerable things you could be doing while you train, If you cant come up with one thing to do while your skills are training then thats just a plain lack of creativity.

Im sorry theres no hand holding in eve. Thats why were different from on the rails mmo's. If you want to be told directly what to do you'll have to go back to those Im afraid.

On top of that eve is less about "leveling up" its about the aquisition of wealth honestly. Thats where our "grind" is. Even if all you want to do is blow crap up like me you need an income stream to enable that in the first place.

Im sorry but your argument is very narrowly focused on eves advancement system and not how it interacts or compliments the rest of eves gameplay.

Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.com I Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers.

Elson Tamar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2011-11-18 11:09:24 UTC
In my first 30 days i missioned, stole two Noctis, made a massive amount of money trading, started a corperation, stumbled into a wormhole and had to pod suicide, got blown up by pirates, went mining, made stuff, made friends, got bored of the sisters eve arc and did my own thing, bought a ship that was overpriced and assploded it, conned isk and had fun.

Eve is what you make it and to quote LARP, you are not your skills.

Yes there are barriers, mainly created by other players, but with bluff, honesty and the right attiude (and insurance!) you can do alot. The only thing i have noticed is there is a skill barrier to getting into PVP, however tha may be down to where im looking for it rather than a real skill barrier.
Dervinus
Rusted and Rejuvenated
Triumvirate.
#70 - 2011-11-18 16:27:01 UTC
Last week I was in a fight with a bunch of players, many of whom were less than 1 week old. Everyone was flying frigates, and we managed to take down a few different fleets of battlecruisers, cruisers and battleships. Those newbies who we were flying with had the time of their lives. They couldnt believe that a bunch of us in nothing but rifters could have so much power. There was one guy who literally had been playing Eve for like 5 hours at that point and had come straight into 0.0 pvp. All of them had tons of fun and stated that they wanted to continue playing eve past their trials.

Why did they have so much fun you ask? Because they put themselves out there and got involved. In Eve, the fun doesnt find you, you have to find it. Its all about attitude. They understood that as newbies in frigates, they werent risking anything, and they had no fear of dieing. As a newbie in a frigate any loss you take is covered by insurance on your ship.

#1 rule in Eve for having fun regardless of the SP, - "NO NOT BELIEVING IN YOURSELF!"

the motto of Goons and Test newbies (>

o7 toonies

Fade Dren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2011-11-19 01:14:34 UTC
Might not be the game for you mate. Franky you should not need others to convince you to play or not.

Decide to move on or stay, either way good luck.
flakeys
Doomheim
#72 - 2011-11-22 16:50:50 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Mortis vonShadow wrote:

If I've offended you in anyway, I don't care. Your very presence offends the **** out of me. You come into my home, you make fun of my family, and you expect sympathy? **** on you and yours and your moral arrogance.




Hahaha pissed myself there.The one thing i at times so dislike and yet makes this game what it is at the same time , the eve-mentallity at it's purest.

You tell 'em mortis


At OP on one side you say you are caged and there is nothing to do and then a few posts further you say ' Yeah i can mine but i don't want to do that , i can be an industrial but i don't want to do that , i can missio, but i don't want to do that.... i just want to fly around'. Newsflash just flying around does not require ANY skilling so what skills would you even need to get out of that cage?


If there is nothing that interests you out of all eve professions you can have then really and without trying to be rude or troll you , WTF made you come back YET again on a trial?Try another game and don't play the trial AGAIN because by now you should really know this is not your game.

God knows how many mmorpg's i have tried and if i don't feel satisfied by what they give me then i just shut the door and look for another mmorg , there's enough around of all types and sorts these days unlike in the early days.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#73 - 2011-11-23 03:17:31 UTC
Indigo Amar wrote:
This is my third trial of Eve Online, and I have to share the one thing that has stopped me in my tracks every time, the game breaking character advancement system that seems to turn the whole game into an illusion. One of this games major ideas - visions - that players put most of their time into is that of the whole character advancement system, where as you put time into the game you will become better, more capable, and more and more viable. However, in Eve Online, this is not a reality, and is nothing but an illusion in the game, where the player is put in a cage with a prison sentence from the start.

lets go to another Dimension to view what I see in Eve from another angle, in the World of Warcraft. Lets say in place of World of Warcraft's current leveling system, you now gain 1 Level each day on your main character, this is on a preset timer, that has no player involvement, after 84 days, you would reach level 85. You are limited to only the quests, abilities, skills, professions up to the level that you are currently on, and regardless if you take part in any of that, or decide to not even play for that day, week, or month, you will continue leveling up, with everything you've done the day before being completely pointless to your characters advancement. As far as content goes, all the quests and professions serve the purpose of earning gold, but gold earned from such things, exponentially increases by level. Today you can make 1 gold per quest, and in a week you can make 10 gold per quest, and two weeks you can make 100 gold per quest, but you don't have to play today, and you don't have to play next week. You don't even have to play this month, you can wait a month without playing and make 1000 gold a quest, why does the level where you only earn 1 gold, or 10 gold even exist in the game? The game starts you out in a cage with a long prison sentence to give you the illusion of "character advancement".

There isn't much of anything to do in this prison, If I want to be free and play in the world, I might as well go afk and wait out my prison sentence, put absolutely no time into the game until its day 84, and iv paid for 3 months of subscription time, then I can play the real game. This is purely a content related review you could say, and I know this is a social game with a vision that I would love to support, but I cannot look past this, what I see as a completely game-breaking, undesirable, pointless system.

It has nothing to do with any complex learning curve or any kind of grind at all, this games character advancement is a Prison, where every new player starts with a very long sentence. This is what keeps players from playing, they think there is a grind, they think it takes a lot of time to play, but there actually is no grind at all but an illusion set up by this prison character advancement system.

Eve has no Grind
Eve is not Hard
Its just an Illusion and is not nearly as vast and complex as you have been tricked to think it is.



Yes Eve IS borked. Why are you still here after discovering this?
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2011-11-24 14:07:43 UTC
WoW + Expansions = Around $100 & $15 per month
EVE + Decently skilled toon bought with PLEX off Character Bazaar = Around $100 & $15 per month

Instantly face-melting without the endless tedium of xp grinding....Priceless.

*Note - You can forego the Character Bazaar and STILL facemelt within a few days. You'll die more, but who cares. Your ships are going to be cheap as chips anyway.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.

Vandy ColdStone
Doomheim
#75 - 2011-11-25 17:40:29 UTC
If you leave EvE and go back to WoW, the average player base IQ will likely rise for both games.

Later kid.
Adainy Gwanwyn
Project Blueprint Research Foundation
#76 - 2011-11-28 02:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Adainy Gwanwyn
Not sure what this borked mess was. See post below for what I meant to put.
Adainy Gwanwyn
Project Blueprint Research Foundation
#77 - 2011-11-28 02:19:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Adainy Gwanwyn
Indigo Amar wrote:
...But now i figure I wont last in this game either way, I don't care for Making ISK, I don't care for the Industry stuff, I dont want to be a "Market Warrior", I just like flying through the galaxy with the music and colors, I enjoyed the new tutorial and the captains quarters wich many eve players consider as pointless as cruising through open space, I really just want to have fun as well.. and I see that most eve players find their fun, and actually want to do things like Industry, and many things that are focused almost completely around making and managing ISK... even the Pvp seems this way... and to become a dominating force in Eve... I guess i just wanna fly around and have fun, while the rest of the community and the game is focused on.. somthing else.. a world of numbers and machines. "I guess I wouldn't last in this 'game' either way"...

I will continue playing the trial, I have a fully equipt Thorax and still 9 days left(out of 14) and see if anything changes me.


Research.

Look at this (http://evetravel.wordpress.com/) or this (http://www.saganexplorations.net/).

Mark726 and Katia Sae are the two most prolific explorers out there, that I've heard of, and are generally regarded as pretty badass by the EVE community.

You know one of Mark's favorite ships? A Buzzard. It's a T2 frigate. It takes less than a month to train it and cloak it decently. You don't even have to worry about weapon modules.

As a side note, I don't do industry and I only have the one account. I usually undock in a Helios, take some pretty pictures. Maybe sometimes I'll be feeling fancy and undock in a T1 frigate called the Maulus and go sensor damp someone while my corpies kill them.

I could be flying a Megathron, or an officer fit T3 cruiser, or hell, even a Brutix. I choose not to because a) those are tools of necessity to me because of my IG income or b) I'm going to get ganked by some "newbs" in T1 frigs or Thrashers when I do. In fact, I'm sure many intrepid new players are capable of doing that and could, by their own decision, start a little corp and do something like this (http://aidenmourn.wordpress.com/). And, in the off chance you really don't like making ISK, you could donate all the money you get from ganking High Sec mission running officer fit battleships to Project Halibut (http://projecthalibut.org/).

Look at that, I just made you a plan! Let's cut it down.

1. Start training for your racial cloaky ship.
2. Join Project Halibut
3. Make friends
4. Gank Hi-Sec missioners with your new friends in T1 ships after scanning them down in your cloaky ship
5. Give money you make off of ganking back to Project Halibut
6. Put down $15 to pay for your first month as a non-trial account because you had so much fun.
7. ????
8. Profit!

Lastly, you'll notice there are no constraints mentioned above because they are an illusion, much like Elvis being dead, the Pyramids being built by humans or that Reptilian shadow government FOX News won't seem to believe me about.

On a serious note, if you really aren't having fun, don't ruin your experience more by trying again and again. If it's not for you, it's not for you, and there's no good justification for coming back.
Revajin
Doomheim
#78 - 2011-11-28 09:57:35 UTC
Guys I don't know if you realize this but the OP was a scrub who is long gone now. You can stop arguing with him.
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#79 - 2011-12-01 20:02:54 UTC
Revajin wrote:
Guys I don't know if you realize this but the OP was a scrub who is long gone now. You can stop arguing with him.



Just as you are a Fanbois who has been milked for years out cash for a game that has no "game".
So what's your point? Let the forum whores have their fun.