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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#621 - 2012-08-01 17:40:17 UTC
WiS is important to the future of EVE no matter what the vocal minority says or does. WiS needs to be done but it needs to be done right. What Team Avatar was explaining in this thread sounds not only promising but epic. Get it done. If CCP's higher ups can't see the good it will do for EVE then they are blind.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#622 - 2012-08-01 17:58:03 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I wouldn't hold my breath for a dev blog. The CCP higher ups are no longer behind the idea so all a dev blog would do is build our hopes up only to be let down again.


Thought I'd jump into the discussion here by clarifying that this isn't true at all. The "CCP higher ups" are quite adamant about WiS involving gameplay, first and foremost, and are continuing to dedicate some resources to avatar development. The CSM was shown a demonstration of their work-in-progress, but its early enough that details are highly NDA-ed. I can't say much more than this officially, but I wanted to quickly dispel the myth that CCP has somehow decided to stop working on avatars altogether. I've also taken some time this morning to pass the message along that you guys are still anxiously awaiting a dev blog!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#623 - 2012-08-01 18:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
I wouldn't hold my breath for a dev blog. The CCP higher ups are no longer behind the idea so all a dev blog would do is build our hopes up only to be let down again.


Thought I'd jump into the discussion here by clarifying that this isn't true at all. The "CCP higher ups" are quite adamant about WiS involving gameplay, first and foremost, and are continuing to dedicate some resources to avatar development. The CSM was shown a demonstration of their work-in-progress, but its early enough that details are highly NDA-ed. I can't say much more than this officially, but I wanted to quickly dispel the myth that CCP has somehow decided to stop working on avatars altogether. I've also taken some time this morning to pass the message along that you guys are still anxiously awaiting a dev blog!


Thanks for speaking up but I didn't say the WIS idea was completely dead, just that we are not going to see any good avatar gameplay in eve for a long time. So it would be pointless for them to release a blog saying "these are the cool avatar things you will get in 2014" unless they want start another riot.

I really want avatar gameplay as it's the only reason I started playing but I don't want to have my hopes built up for a feature that is atleast 2 years away and might not even happen.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#624 - 2012-08-01 19:33:10 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Rek Seven wrote:
I wouldn't hold my breath for a dev blog. The CCP higher ups are no longer behind the idea so all a dev blog would do is build our hopes up only to be let down again.


Then they should say something.

If they won't publish the dev blog they need to say something

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#625 - 2012-08-01 19:54:19 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
I wouldn't hold my breath for a dev blog. The CCP higher ups are no longer behind the idea so all a dev blog would do is build our hopes up only to be let down again.


Thought I'd jump into the discussion here by clarifying that this isn't true at all. The "CCP higher ups" are quite adamant about WiS involving gameplay, first and foremost, and are continuing to dedicate some resources to avatar development. The CSM was shown a demonstration of their work-in-progress, but its early enough that details are highly NDA-ed. I can't say much more than this officially, but I wanted to quickly dispel the myth that CCP has somehow decided to stop working on avatars altogether. I've also taken some time this morning to pass the message along that you guys are still anxiously awaiting a dev blog!


I am 100% in favor that WiS gets gameplay.

Anyway I seriously object that by gameplay they intend to do the same old crap on foot, just swapping ships for avatars.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#626 - 2012-08-01 20:00:27 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
I wouldn't hold my breath for a dev blog. The CCP higher ups are no longer behind the idea so all a dev blog would do is build our hopes up only to be let down again.


Thought I'd jump into the discussion here by clarifying that this isn't true at all. The "CCP higher ups" are quite adamant about WiS involving gameplay, first and foremost, and are continuing to dedicate some resources to avatar development. The CSM was shown a demonstration of their work-in-progress, but its early enough that details are highly NDA-ed. I can't say much more than this officially, but I wanted to quickly dispel the myth that CCP has somehow decided to stop working on avatars altogether. I've also taken some time this morning to pass the message along that you guys are still anxiously awaiting a dev blog!


I am 100% in favor that WiS gets gameplay.

Anyway I seriously object that by gameplay they intend to do the same old crap on foot, just swapping ships for avatars.


they aren't making it ships on foot. they seem to making a survival horror shooter.

unless you think dust 514 too is just eve space ships with avatars.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Aooz
Doomheim
#627 - 2012-08-01 20:16:53 UTC
Do you see the irony in asking CCP to provide "game-play"?

They've actually NEVER provided game-play for anyone and I mean that literally. They provided a sandbox and the players provided the game-play, unless you honestly count those missions as a game, while I guess it is possible to lose them... they were never fun, none of the farming which exists in this game was ever "fun" and while that isn't a requisite for a "game" it is for "play"

Beyond that, they couldn't over 8 years provide a station to walk in, even though they tried.

Your persistent hope is quickly starting to look like the onset of dementia.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#628 - 2012-08-01 20:28:41 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
I wouldn't hold my breath for a dev blog. The CCP higher ups are no longer behind the idea so all a dev blog would do is build our hopes up only to be let down again.


Thought I'd jump into the discussion here by clarifying that this isn't true at all. The "CCP higher ups" are quite adamant about WiS involving gameplay, first and foremost, and are continuing to dedicate some resources to avatar development. The CSM was shown a demonstration of their work-in-progress, but its early enough that details are highly NDA-ed. I can't say much more than this officially, but I wanted to quickly dispel the myth that CCP has somehow decided to stop working on avatars altogether. I've also taken some time this morning to pass the message along that you guys are still anxiously awaiting a dev blog!


I am 100% in favor that WiS gets gameplay.

Anyway I seriously object that by gameplay they intend to do the same old crap on foot, just swapping ships for avatars.


they aren't making it ships on foot. they seem to making a survival horror shooter.

unless you think dust 514 too is just eve space ships with avatars.


The appropiate name is "dungeon raider" and the avatar will have a shield, an armor and a hu... err, a life bar. They will be able to kill each other in a variety of means (weapons and using the environment) and of course any time your buddies will be able to shoot your back.

This, bear in mind, has been prototyped after not asking any player about it, and following how the release of everything CCP promised and showed for 6 years turned to be a malfunctioning contentless prison cell.

I could go on and on with the rant but you get the point. They disappointed us and now plan to cheat us and hand out WiS to those who never gave a damm of it.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#629 - 2012-08-01 20:44:01 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
I wouldn't hold my breath for a dev blog. The CCP higher ups are no longer behind the idea so all a dev blog would do is build our hopes up only to be let down again.


Thought I'd jump into the discussion here by clarifying that this isn't true at all. The "CCP higher ups" are quite adamant about WiS involving gameplay, first and foremost, and are continuing to dedicate some resources to avatar development. The CSM was shown a demonstration of their work-in-progress, but its early enough that details are highly NDA-ed. I can't say much more than this officially, but I wanted to quickly dispel the myth that CCP has somehow decided to stop working on avatars altogether. I've also taken some time this morning to pass the message along that you guys are still anxiously awaiting a dev blog!


I am 100% in favor that WiS gets gameplay.

Anyway I seriously object that by gameplay they intend to do the same old crap on foot, just swapping ships for avatars.


they aren't making it ships on foot. they seem to making a survival horror shooter.

unless you think dust 514 too is just eve space ships with avatars.


The appropiate name is "dungeon raider" and the avatar will have a shield, an armor and a hu... err, a life bar. They will be able to kill each other in a variety of means (weapons and using the environment) and of course any time your buddies will be able to shoot your back.

.

um yeah just like dust 514, whats your point?

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#630 - 2012-08-01 20:51:55 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Vaal Erit wrote:
By a 'bunch of players' you mean tens of thousands of accounts which caused the first ever slump in subs in EVEs existence that lost CCP millions of dollars and a significant decrease in CCP staff which is why we now have to wait over a week for a GM response.

Sorry but the players have spoken: WIS is cool, but not at the expense of the rest of EVE.

I dunno where the OP is getting his information, but it is a fact that WIS lost CCP millions of dollars while expansions focused on improving the base game and the war themed expansion gained CCP those millions back.

This. Suck it up, buttercup. WiS is in the shitter where it belongs.


What a QQ dude realy... Lets hope ccp release this wis project in this year on the next year.
Ghazu
#631 - 2012-08-01 20:58:15 UTC

fyi indahchuck is one of them dudes hoping desperately to emote with other dudes in a station, demanding the quick and dirty development of social gameplay,
as in duh uh just copy 2nd life into eve.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#632 - 2012-08-01 21:12:07 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
The appropiate name is "dungeon raider" and the avatar will have a shield, an armor and a hu... err, a life bar. They will be able to kill each other in a variety of means (weapons and using the environment) and of course any time your buddies will be able to shoot your back.

This, bear in mind, has been prototyped after not asking any player about it, and following how the release of everything CCP promised and showed for 6 years turned to be a malfunctioning contentless prison cell.

I could go on and on with the rant but you get the point. They disappointed us and now plan to cheat us and hand out WiS to those who never gave a damm of it.


Do you have sources for ANY of this at all? Unless you have a dev on record talking about shields, armor, life bars, and weapons - please, please, please, refrain from wild speculation about the type of gameplay Incarna will bring. I understand that YOU are quite bitter about EVE's typical gameplay, but there's no good that comes from imposing your worst fears onto a feature that is no where near completion and about which very few details have been released. You are talking about this as if you know this is how it will work, which is incredibly misleading to other players and harms the discussion if you don't actually know what you are talking about.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#633 - 2012-08-01 21:21:14 UTC
Ghazu wrote:

fyi indahchuck is one of them dudes hoping desperately to emote with other dudes in a station, demanding the quick and dirty development of social gameplay,
as in duh uh just copy 2nd life into eve.


Provided that i've never stated what i do have in mind for WiS gameplay, your post can be considered plain trolling. I've suggested many features and/or mechanics that would allow players to create their own gameplay, and also have suggested means to allow players to develop WiS content as a way to make WiS development lighter on CCP's limited art resources.

But as for WiS gameplay, I haven't ever said a word... yet.

In a sense, the current idea of TA is wrong. EVE is about emergent gameplay, not about providing assembled toys with buttons to press and get bacon. There are only so much ways to raid a dungeon and forcing players to be in jail or face death in a 20 vs 1 gank is a waste of time and resources.

What would players like to do? Have more ways to kill each other? Is that all what CCP can come with?

Why don't ask players what ELSE would they want to do in New Eden...?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#634 - 2012-08-01 21:23:20 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:

Thanks for speaking up but I didn't say the WIS idea was completely dead, just that we are not going to see any good avatar gameplay in eve for a long time. So it would be pointless for them to release a blog saying "these are the cool avatar things you will get in 2014" unless they want start another riot.

I really want avatar gameplay as it's the only reason I started playing but I don't want to have my hopes built up for a feature that is atleast 2 years away and might not even happen.


Well, at least you understand the position the dev's are in. They could release a dev blog tomorrow, but there is no guarantee that it would look like the final product, and you're probably right about the time frame being a disappointment for most people. However you slice it, they dev's face criticism - if they release too early they disappoint / anger people that expected one thing and not the other, if they release too late players are frustrated that they had no say in the process.

EVE is ultimately a creative endeavour just like painting a picture or composing a song - and the developers are always going to release material when they are happy with how things are shaping up and ready to accept criticism - any of you that are designers, architects, fine artists, or writers understand what I mean when I say the dev's are probably just not at the stage they want others to see their work, this is very different than simple neglect which many have accused them of in this thread.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#635 - 2012-08-01 21:25:09 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
The appropiate name is "dungeon raider" and the avatar will have a shield, an armor and a hu... err, a life bar. They will be able to kill each other in a variety of means (weapons and using the environment) and of course any time your buddies will be able to shoot your back.

This, bear in mind, has been prototyped after not asking any player about it, and following how the release of everything CCP promised and showed for 6 years turned to be a malfunctioning contentless prison cell.

I could go on and on with the rant but you get the point. They disappointed us and now plan to cheat us and hand out WiS to those who never gave a damm of it.


Do you have sources for ANY of this at all? Unless you have a dev on record talking about shields, armor, life bars, and weapons - please, please, please, refrain from wild speculation about the type of gameplay Incarna will bring. I understand that YOU are quite bitter about EVE's typical gameplay, but there's no good that comes from imposing your worst fears onto a feature that is no where near completion and about which very few details have been released. You are talking about this as if you know this is how it will work, which is incredibly misleading to other players and harms the discussion if you don't actually know what you are talking about.

Exactly. Of course this is the internet...everybody is an expert on everything.

Honestly what I hoped for from WiS combat is something along the lines of a Mass Effect or Gears gameplay. 3rd person shooter style with a good cover system. I think that would fit perfectly because DUST is already an FPS through the PS3, EVE is a click in space point and click and WiS while part of EVE could round things out in terms of gameplay styles.

Either way I look forward to what comes down the pipe for WiS. In the mean time I think CCP should paste a "forever alone" face on the exit door of every captains quarters...

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#636 - 2012-08-01 21:43:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Soulpirate
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Well, at least you understand the position the dev's are in. They could release a dev blog tomorrow, but there is no guarantee that it would look like the final product, and you're probably right about the time frame being a disappointment for most people. However you slice it, they dev's face criticism - if they release too early they disappoint / anger people that expected one thing and not the other, if they release too late players are frustrated that they had no say in the process.

Problem is, they said it would be out after the 19th of last month.

Yeah yeah, I know, it is still technically after July 19th. Roll

Point being is we were made to believe that it was ready and just waiting for
someone to return from vacation and release it.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#637 - 2012-08-01 21:47:24 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Problem is, they said it would be out after the 19th of last month.

Yeah yeah, I know, it is still technically after July 19th. Roll

Point being is we were made to believe that it was ready and just waiting for
someone to return from vacation and release it.

OH ****! Someone might be doing work on something other than your pet feature/request in EVE!

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Ghazu
#638 - 2012-08-01 21:51:04 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Ghazu wrote:

fyi indahchuck is one of them dudes hoping desperately to emote with other dudes in a station, demanding the quick and dirty development of social gameplay,
as in duh uh just copy 2nd life into eve.


Provided that i've never stated what i do have in mind for WiS gameplay, your post can be considered plain trolling. I've suggested many features and/or mechanics that would allow players to create their own gameplay, and also have suggested means to allow players to develop WiS content as a way to make WiS development lighter on CCP's limited art resources.

But as for WiS gameplay, I haven't ever said a word... yet.

In a sense, the current idea of TA is wrong. EVE is about emergent gameplay, not about providing assembled toys with buttons to press and get bacon. There are only so much ways to raid a dungeon and forcing players to be in jail or face death in a 20 vs 1 gank is a waste of time and resources.

What would players like to do? Have more ways to kill each other? Is that all what CCP can come with?

Why don't ask players what ELSE would they want to do in New Eden...?


didn't you or your alt suggested some /dance game?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#639 - 2012-08-01 21:52:24 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Soulpirate wrote:
Problem is, they said it would be out after the 19th of last month.

Yeah yeah, I know, it is still technically after July 19th. Roll

Point being is we were made to believe that it was ready and just waiting for
someone to return from vacation and release it.

OH ****! Someone might be doing work on something other than your pet feature/request in EVE!

Pet feature request? Rather ignorant remark coming from that vocal minority...you guys are usually better than that.

Well no...no you aren't.

Sorry...forget I said anything.

I can't wait to see the Dev Blog...crossing fingers for this week.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#640 - 2012-08-01 21:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
The appropiate name is "dungeon raider" and the avatar will have a shield, an armor and a hu... err, a life bar. They will be able to kill each other in a variety of means (weapons and using the environment) and of course any time your buddies will be able to shoot your back.

This, bear in mind, has been prototyped after not asking any player about it, and following how the release of everything CCP promised and showed for 6 years turned to be a malfunctioning contentless prison cell.

I could go on and on with the rant but you get the point. They disappointed us and now plan to cheat us and hand out WiS to those who never gave a damm of it.


Do you have sources for ANY of this at all? Unless you have a dev on record talking about shields, armor, life bars, and weapons - please, please, please, refrain from wild speculation about the type of gameplay Incarna will bring. (...)


Did you saw the video with the box ninja in Moscow? There was that box guy with three stat bars (shiled/armor/life), environment eating first, then second, then last, and then the box ninja died.
So, evidence of shield, armor, life: 1 video.
Evidence of that being false/wrong/abandoned: Null.
Debate on it: Null.
Devblogs on it: null.

As for what incarna will bring, I tell you what it will NOT bring: what they DID NOT ask to players. Roll

Quote:
I understand that YOU are quite bitter about EVE's typical gameplay, but there's no good that comes from imposing your worst fears onto a feature that is no where near completion and about which very few details have been released. You are talking about this as if you know this is how it will work, which is incredibly misleading to other players and harms the discussion if you don't actually know what you are talking about.


I still haven't met a bigmouth that can't be put to shame with a few well thought pieces of information. I will gladfully eat my words when they talk and prove me a pessimistic paranoid freak and make me fall from my chair with gorgeous new venues of gameplay unlike anything in EVE now.

Meanwhile, what they show us is the same old crap on foot, presented in a theme park format, and is unlike what they had been showing for the last 6 years with null opposition and quite high interest.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you