Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have been writing and re-writing my ideas on how Fractional Warfare (FW), null sec and low sec needs to be changed, only to come to this forum and see your ideas. Which are good ones Bloodpetal. Anyway my idea is that New Eden needs to be shaken to its core and make it so that what use to be, what use to be the way things are, is no more.

New Eden Needs An Emma -

By just implementing 3 changes will in my opinion make EVE an interesting place to live and play for maybe the next 2 to 3 years.

1. PVP can only happen in the systems declared to be involved in Fractional Warfare (FW). The way this can work is that there currently exists conflict between the 4 empires and only players who are born in an empire can do PVP for that empire. If a player can gather and lead as a squadron leader, wing leader or fleet commander, based on trained leadership skills then that leader and the members can work their way into being awarded rank within the Navy of that empire. Gaining rank in the empire navy will be based on the battles won and number of successful kills accumulated. They also can claim the solar systems they and their group conquer as a further reward. But that only lasts as long as they continue to beat back that empire's enemy's and the local PVE challengers. This approach has been masterfully laid out in the background stories of New Eden for each of the empires. This will I believe make it more meaningful to have read and utilized the great background stores produced by EVE writers. Furthermore, the resources of conquered solar system can be improve thru the system of system improvements as found in low and null sec today.

2. Low Sec and Null Sec systems not part of FW are open to all players, corporations and alliances. The following new rules will apply. War declaration must be initiated for corporation/alliances to engage in combat. GANKING a player in Low Sec or Null Sec will result in the immediate loss of ship, modules, pod, and salvage for that aggressive pod pilot. The possible loss of skill points will be based on the current EVE rules for maintaining a proper level medical clone. Additionally, that player will immediately be classed as a pirate with an increasing bounty based on the number of times GANKING occurs in increments of 10 million A further charge of -1 add to standings with the empire of birth and +1 for the NPC holder (such as SANSHA, BLOOD RAIDER, ANGEL, and etc) in that region. PVE in Null Sec will use the same improving AI that is found in Wormholes (WH) based on the reverse of WH classes, i.e., the PVE AI of a class 6 WH will be what is found in solar systems that are -0.0 and greater. The more positive the Null Sec system the less effective the PVE AI will be. PVE in Low Sec will be based on the AI currently found in the incursions by SANSHA. These AI implementations will need to be scaled by the Developers as they enable this functionality.

3. Low Sec and Null Sec opening/looting of Jet Cans and looting and salvage of not owned wrecks will have no impact on the pilot engaged in those actions.

There is no doubt that #1 and #2 changes above will shake New Eden to its core an just possibly bring back the old veterans and will most certainly bring a better mix of pilots into Null Sec and Low Sec. I am very sure the issue of "nothing new to do" go away for at least a while. Also these changes will in my mind bring CCP goal of making Low Sec and Null Sec a much more of a place where PVP thru War Dec's will occur and much more often than currently happens within High Sec. Besides the machinery of war needs to be Empire driven and the coporation/alliance squabbles need to be side-shows.

OK - Time for the forum Trolls to chew me up to little pieces.

Have fun and fly safe because change is coming to New Eden.

Agreed.


I have to say that although my posts may be aiming very high in terms of what COULD be FW, I at least feel that they acknowledge some of the common conceptions of what's wrong. There seems to be some misinterpretations as to WHAT they are meant to accomplish, or that they will have a somehow negative effect on PVP (which they won't)...


Omega's ideas seem just out of touch for what is probably healthy for this game as a whole. They also don't seem to have anything to really do with FW overall.

Clearly not keeping up to date on how Null Sec is falling apart. Yes, it's broken, it's a deal breaker, and people are leaving, so they're fixing it.





... I don't need to know what you want to know it will be better for OTHER people than just YOU (selfish). The doctor doesn't ask the child what will make him better.

You want incredibly bad reasoning? Saying that you simply want it means it is what will make FW better. That's pretty bad reasoning.




So you only want what YOU want, being selfish, and then come and tell me that obviously I can't know what is good for FW - because only people like you, who have the same view point as you, and who want what YOU want can possibly be correct?

Uh, no.


CCP has no reason to fix things for you. You're already in FW. You'll keep playing the same "Arena" crap over and over, while other people continue to be bored with it, and nor care about it. Solving your issues doesn't solve anything. It makes you 10% happier than you were before. I agree with CCP 100% that the last 3 years of neglecting FW to make you 10% happier is not worth the development time.


The system has to appeal to other new, fresh, and rookie players, otherwise it's a failure and waste of development time.

Thanks for offering your support to the FW effort!

There have been some fresh ideas here that I have not seen before that I really like. Incorporating some of them, here is my vision for FW:

General:
The focus should always prefer PvP over PvE to the highest level possible. If any element of FW must incorporate PvE, it should either complement the PvP or, at the very least, not create a circumstance that deters PvP (such as mission-fitting ships, and NPC agro inside plexes).

Null-sec and FW are, and should be, different. I have no plans to move to null after using FW as a "stepping-stone". I intend to stay in FW and I believe the feature has the potential to provide some of the most fulfilling gameplay EVE has to offer. This goes hand-in-hand with the following point.

Arena or high-level? FW can cater to various PvP-oriented players with different goals and play-styles. It can serve the quick-action arena-style combat that many solo and small-corp players currently use it for, but it can also server larger, well-organized groups. Both of these things can be achieved if nicely balanced mechanics are implemented.

Sustainability without grinding or carebearing. There should be enough rewards from FW mechanics that you don't need to sneak around in complete safety in your cloaky mission-running ship for weeks while you grind through missions, just so you can fund a few PvP ships. The ISK-sink is too high right now, and it is another obstacle for PvP.

Plexing and Occupancy:
Everyone agrees there needs to be more motivation to seek occupancy. I think the OP has suggested a great foundation for occupancy, in that it should be constellation-based with an incursion-style progress meter and LP payout-system. Plexes with objective-based capping would satisfy my desire to curb or remove PvE from the plexing process. I also think that PvE should be optional while plexing, so if (god-forbid) no players show up to oppose you, you have something to do. Tentative LP is awarded (pending constellation take-over, incursion-style) based on plex completion, and maybe if you choose to engage the optional NPCs, you get an instant ISK payout?

There would a limited number of constellations contested at any given time. They would be chosen and viewed in the Militia Info Screen (see bellow). This would centralize the fighting, although that could be a bad thing since there would be other areas with little fighting... It could be opened up to allow any and all constellations to be contested at any given time (throwing out the voting system I outline in "Militia Info Screen") if there can be a good way to initiate the contesting, perhaps by completing a special officer site that only spawns in non-contested areas.

Attackers would be awarded LP for completing sites, and defenders would be awarded LP for defending them. The battle for a constellation would go on as long as needed for a side to win (achieved by something more fun than shooting the bunker). The winning side would receive their full LP and the losing side would receive some percentage of theirs, so that all their effort isn't for nothing.

Player kills within contested areas, or maybe just sites, could also generate LP that is added to the pay-out pool for constellation take-over.

There should also be benefits to holding occupancy. But it would be easy to get this wrong. In my opinion, having system-wide effects that directly affect your ship, such as resistance bonuses, or locking pilots out of docking, would wildly imbalance combat, and create (someone already pointed out) a snowball effect where the holders get more and more powerful to a point where there are more reasons to avoid the area then to attack it. Adding NPC "rats" to the systems is a less direct effect, and could possibly be implemented nicely, but then you've fallen into the trap of adding more PvE, which is bad. The best thing I've heard so far is free repairs from faction corp stations, tax reductions, PI fee reductions, and that sort of thing. But the main motivation should be racking up LP during a constellation assault, and seeing it through in order to receive the LP.

Ranks:
There should be more to ranks. I don't have much of my own opinion, but I like the idea of it being public, and I think that once the plexing mechanics are fixed, it will actually mean something again... it won't mean that you can speed tank some NPCs in an empty system :P. You should also be able to gain rank by killing enemy players.

FW Missions
Missions should only spawn in constellations that are contested. Their completion could count towards the total constellation control, and how about having them reward more raw ISK and less LP. This way, mission runners can't hide in safety away from the fighting, missions mean something to the bigger picture, and they have different rewards than plexing, and thus attract different players for different reasons.

Militia Info Screen
This would be similar to the incursion global report. It could show which constellations are contested, their current level of occupancy, and update once an hour with the number of pilots from each militia in them (which would be like a delayed military report of enemy forces vs friendlies). It could also serve as a way of choosing the next constellation to contest, perhaps by vote... the higher your rank the more your vote is worth? Once the constellation is taken or successfully defended, the next constellation successfully voted is started. This could be considered a decision on how to allocate military resources.

Just to complete the cross-referencing Faction Warfare circle jerk, I wanted to point out that I had already started this discussion in GD, here's the link....

By no means am I trying to draw attention away from Bloodpetal's thread, there are great discussions going on in both places. I just wanted everyone here who's interested to be able to chime in there as well if they've got something relevant to say.

Thanks everyone for all your ongoing feedback about Faction Warfare!! Regardless of the fact that we all have different opinions about the issues, the more dialogue takes place the better the finished product will be once CCP gets to work. They certainly should not be without enough feedback from the player base!!

EDIT - my bad, I didn't see that Cearain had already linked to my thread, which I appreciate Cearain.

Bloodpetal, now that I've had the time to properly read the posts in this thread, including your lengthy proposal, I just wanted to take a moment and say while your imagination is vivid and ideas quite visionary, I'm afraid I have to agree with Kuan, Rothgar, Wolfsbrigade, and the others in this thread who have all flown with or against me in Faction Warfare for the last few years, in that there are some tweaks, adjustments, etc. that can be implemented sooner than later in order to inject some life into the Faction Warfare scene.

I summarily reject your idea that "FW is dead", that has been said many many times before, and I always reference the host of blogs, killboard data, and general media that says otherwise.

The problem with FW is that those who arent involved (of which you already included yourself) see Faction Warfare as a broken mechanic, and not as a community.

There are hundreds if not thousands of pilots who have persisted and involved themselves with faction warfare over the years, and have had tremendous fun with what little, arguable broken mechanics CCP provided us with. I still maintain that the FW community is best poised to make suggestions as to its improvement, as we know from first-hand experience what draws players, and what sends them elsewhere.

We, the community, have been waiting for YEARS for some fixes, adjustments, and many of them are simply and easily implemented. We also don't want to wait a day longer than we have to, and see right now as a great time to seize on CCP's newfound interest and point them towards the most common ideas that have popped up over and over again as we've hashed these things out.

This is not in anyway to diminish the premise of your post. The more ideas the merrier, I'm always open minded about suggestions. However, my fear is that if FW is slated for a drastic revamp, along the lines you propose, than nothing of use will be implemented Winter Patch.

Keep dreaming big, I hope CCP does take a sweeping visionary approach to FW in the future - but not at the expense of listening and responding to the specific feedback that has already been given and can be addressed in a much narrower timeframe than the overhaul you propose.

With the exception of the occupancy mechanic, FW is great - free war dec, great way to make income to lose tons of ships.

Free War Dec: Best feature.

Missions: Great isk maker, gets pilots out and about and moving around. We're not like 90% of the pirate groups that sit in one system running L5's all day. I wish there was a way to grief pussy mission runners who run, but that's just me.

At a minimum: Fix the occupancy mechanic and we're good. Less orbiting buttons for fixed time (BORING), more leaving when objective is complete (like killing all rats in plex). 10 guys running a plex should take1/10th the time as one guy.

Request:
Let alliances into FW so rp types can play too.
Minnies/Gallente, Amarr/Caldari should be blue.
You should not be able to dock in enemy stations. Enemy stations should have gate guns that shoot you (creates safe zone).
Enemy stations switch sides based on occupancy. (not every station in system, just the stations associated with FW)
Fix standings hit on remote repping/warp bubbles.
other usual requests....

As an Independent corporation operating in Low Sec in the Faction Warfare Zone, we deal with the militia's quite often. However, to most individuals who look at Low Sec they don't really see operating in low sec as anything other than "Pirate" or "Not Pirate".



The militia's for a long time, for the most part, were a non-pirate and in many cases "anti-pirate" entity that cleaned up a lot of the rabble living in low sec, and was for a long time declared to have "Ruined Low Sec!!!" by many a pirate.


To me, that created a beautiful and interest synergy in the Low Sec regions. It went from being this lawless place to a place that had SOME form of "Law" in the militia's - although not intentional and only looking for PVP - the FW corps are actually very cooperative when on the same side (mostly due to taking MASSIVE standing hits on shooting another Friendly Militia). This creates a form of a "solid front" when dealing with certain situations, but not so united that it can overcome any and all challenges.


The intriguing element to that dynamic became that it opened up low sec to more independent and not pure Piwate corporations - although discreetly and sometimes THROUGH their militia - Low Sec somewhat opened up in a way from the 50 man pirate gangs with nothing better to do.


The dynamic to me in the FW zone is more than just "Militia" VS "Militia.

To me, it's a bit like the game "Privateer" for those that played it. You can end up moving and oeprating between the militia's, who are either not pirates, or in ships not exclusively fit for pirating all the time - so they're not always in a position to pirate or gate camp on independents moving through. Although there is no strict delineation that matters to anyone who crosses the sovereignty line, and in most cases the "frontlines" are very shallow - to the wandering independent who knows what he's doing, moving around and seeing the Militia's operate is actually quite fun part of the experience, learning to pay attention to who is on which side of the war - and then using that to your advantage in either a fight or in logistics, etc adds tremendous amounts to the Low Sec experience overall.


The issue is that the FW system IN ITSELF is not doing what is intended, and has diverted from what would have once been the main goal of FW.



As a Veteran EVE Player from 2005 and had the chance to explore almost all of EVE - living in low sec near the infamous Rancer (before the Thelan pipe was opened to Hagilur), survived in Null Sec as renters and as owners through some fun moments in EVE history (BoB Fail, Goonz Evacuating Delve, etc) - before FW ever existed, and then having gone through and participated in FW (having done little to nothing of the FW content in itself having realized it was futile and not fun. Period.) The FW experience of a "Free War and Arena" really just doesn't phase me as a strong argument for FW. Go to null sec and explore different parts and you will find those experiences and even better or bigger ones (or used to be able to before Null went to hell). FW needs to be more and more for the newer player who can bridge into other experiences, but potent enough to actually maintain SOME of the player base.


A pilot coming out of the militia should be able to say "I'm a Militia Veteran" and people know it means SOMETHING - and it has SOME story behind it.


Even look at the current situation, I'm a Militia Veteran and some people just say "That doesn't matter". Why? What has changed? Nothing! Exactly. So How can my experience be THAT different from yours? Other than the fact that you are clearly invested in whatever few things FW offers to you and are happy with that, and I wasn't? And why does CCP suddenly want to "Fix FW"? Suddenly. The only valid reason is to appeal to new players and HOLD ON TO THEM. That's the ONLY valid reason to do so. They have lost subscriptions and online activity - and they know they must start with the new players to keep them.

FW offers that solution. Fixing things for the FW vets gets CCP nothing to speak of, that's the facts.


P.S. The only other reason to "Fix" FW is for Dust514 beta opening up this Winter. So FW Pilots should chew on that thought a bit.

Another request: Treat pirate faction ships as T2 ships for plex entrance requirements. This one request will do more to help out younger players get into and succeed in FW than anything else you do to attempt to fix FW.

Lots of people do lots of PVE in Eve without ever pvp'ing. What's the big deal?

In any case the solution is pretty straight forward and doesn't require a set of complicated rules. Modify missions to have a "poison pill" that allows you to grief a mission runner if he bails from a mission. Something like with documents in Cutting the Net - he need them to complete the mission. A misison griefer, however, can take them from the cargo container and then either destroy them or ransom them back to the mission runner.

w.r.t limiting locations of conflict to create more pvp: Won't work. One side will eventually dominate a region by bringing superior force/numbers and the other side will retreat. No fight. Happens all the time everywhere in FW.

Then I guess we don't agree on this.

I don't think people should join fw for the sole purpose of farming the missions. I think fw missions should be for people in fw to recoup their losses in fighting for their faction. I don't think it should be something for people who have no interest in fw to farm - like level 4 high sec missions.

As far as it being hard to gank fw pilots in their pve mission ships or otherwise grief them. Well, I think that is working as intended.