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Barge Fairy Tale

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Herr Hammer Draken
#1941 - 2012-07-30 06:09:50 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
It is for Miners.


More minerals in market = cheaper mineral prices = cheaper ships and modules = good for ganker.

No reason for you to whine here.


Yeah, and Bad for Miners.

I was for the Drone Poo nerf as well. Mining shouldn't be the worst profession in EVE by such a large margin. It should be halfway decent.

I just find it weird that Miners keep wanting their profession to be easier and don't seem to get that that ease that they're calling for will hurt their income.


And that would be intentional by design and themattic with the game. So your point is irrelevant except perhaps if it would hurt your own bottom line and that is the real reason for your post. Supply and demand issues are supposed to define the choices players make in game.

Only right now the control of those choices lies mostly with the gankers and not the miners themselves. Which is not themattic with the game design.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Knight Cabbage
Doomheim
#1942 - 2012-07-30 06:12:25 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Knight Cabbage wrote:
It seems like the goons and like-wise minded "PVP"-players are quite mad that CCP foiled their attempt to dictate the direction of the game by a little ship balancing.

Giving their gloating on the endless miner whine treads after the extention of the hulkageddon bounties, I find this quite amusing.


The new Hulk's gonna top out at 22k EHP now. I think we'll get some delicious tears from the Mining Forum Warrior community once it goes live.


Wouldn't bet on this one. Skiff and Mack cannot be ganked for profit and their yield don't look so bad.
They address to main point miners complained about - that the "PVP"-players could dictate others their playstyle.

Anyways, these numbers aren't fixed yet, who knows what will make it into the game eventually.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1943 - 2012-07-30 06:23:36 UTC
Almost 100 pages of griefer tears.

Awesome.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1944 - 2012-07-30 06:26:11 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Almost 100 pages of griefer tears.

Awesome.

Please point out an example of such tears.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1945 - 2012-07-30 06:30:43 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
La Nariz wrote:


Making something easier attracts more people to the profession which means more minerals will be being mined. More minerals being mined means more supply available which drives cost down. I never took an econ class and even I know that when somethings more common it generally gets cheaper.


... and how is this a bad thing?


Because what will happen is mining will become the worst profession again and then all the miners will throw forum tantrums again until CCP buffs mining again. I don't care if it becomes a terrible profession again, but I do care that CCP is giving in to stupid things like forum tantrums from people that basically want pvp removed from highsec.


Not to rain on your parade, but mining is still the worst profession...

Even worse than PI, I calculated I have made about 46.6M per hour with it.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1946 - 2012-07-30 06:32:27 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


That's true of a Stabber in a Level 2 as well. (Level 2 would be the roughly equivalent income).

Right Click > Dock takes 2-4s. Can you not hold it that long?


I have done thousands of missions, what you say is simply a lie. L3 can do that, L2 won't kill any vaguely fitted stabber expecially if it's not sitting idle at the center of the spawns.


If it's sitting AFK in the mission "because you had to go to the bathroom" it sure will die.


Nah. These days it's even hard to die in a L4, you really have to actively go out to something like Mordus Headhunters and then go AFK in the middle of the rats.

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Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1947 - 2012-07-30 07:05:13 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
Almost 100 pages of griefer tears.

Awesome.

Please point out an example of such tears.

You did read the OP yes?
Pipa Porto
#1948 - 2012-07-30 07:07:05 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


That's true of a Stabber in a Level 2 as well. (Level 2 would be the roughly equivalent income).

Right Click > Dock takes 2-4s. Can you not hold it that long?


I have done thousands of missions, what you say is simply a lie. L3 can do that, L2 won't kill any vaguely fitted stabber expecially if it's not sitting idle at the center of the spawns.


If it's sitting AFK in the mission "because you had to go to the bathroom" it sure will die.


Nah. These days it's even hard to die in a L4, you really have to actively go out to something like Mordus Headhunters and then go AFK in the middle of the rats.


Are we still talking Stabber, or have you wandered off into a different ship?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1949 - 2012-07-30 07:16:56 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


That's true of a Stabber in a Level 2 as well. (Level 2 would be the roughly equivalent income).

Right Click > Dock takes 2-4s. Can you not hold it that long?


I have done thousands of missions, what you say is simply a lie. L3 can do that, L2 won't kill any vaguely fitted stabber expecially if it's not sitting idle at the center of the spawns.


If it's sitting AFK in the mission "because you had to go to the bathroom" it sure will die.


Nah. These days it's even hard to die in a L4, you really have to actively go out to something like Mordus Headhunters and then go AFK in the middle of the rats.


Are we still talking Stabber, or have you wandered off into a different ship?


I don't pretend I write good English but the analogy is pretty straigthforward.

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#1950 - 2012-07-30 07:20:08 UTC
Octoven wrote:
Ganking for profit lets see how that works, you have one ship topped out at 120 mil taking down a ship valued at 280 mil. The gank pilot makes a profit the miner loses. It goes beyond that though right? The gank toon grabs another nado and repeats the process, meanwhile that miner that just got ganked is busy grinding to replace his ****. Ok, fine he got ganked, miners arent bitching that they are getting ganked, they are bitching because the gankers lose such a small amount compared to the miner himself.

Granted, this is eve and dark bullshit is everywhere. However, with changes to barges it will take at least 2 nados if not 3 to drop a barge. Even at 3 that puts ship cost at 270 mil for a 280 mil ship. Sounds like a fair deal to me. High sec isnt a pretty playland where you can comb each other's hair, you can STILL be ganked, its just going to cost you just as much as your costing the miner. If you want to be a pirate Pirate try your luck in low sec. In a logical sense, why is it so damn important to gank miners for profit?

A 50-dollar steel mallet destroys a $300,000 Ferrari. A 10-million-dollar torpedo boat destroys a billion-dollar cruise ship. A few tens of billions of dollars spent on developing a nuclear weapons program can wipe out a trillion-dollar nation.

It's much easier to destroy than to create. Establishing parity between the costs of production and destruction is exactly the thing that an open-ended game like EVE does not need.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1951 - 2012-07-30 07:20:12 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Octoven wrote:
Ganking for profit lets see how that works, you have one ship topped out at 120 mil taking down a ship valued at 280 mil. The gank pilot makes a profit the miner loses. It goes beyond that though right? The gank toon grabs another nado and repeats the process, meanwhile that miner that just got ganked is busy grinding to replace his ****. Ok, fine he got ganked, miners arent bitching that they are getting ganked, they are bitching because the gankers lose such a small amount compared to the miner himself.

Granted, this is eve and dark bullshit is everywhere. However, with changes to barges it will take at least 2 nados if not 3 to drop a barge. Even at 3 that puts ship cost at 270 mil for a 280 mil ship. Sounds like a fair deal to me. High sec isnt a pretty playland where you can comb each other's hair, you can STILL be ganked, its just going to cost you just as much as your costing the miner. If you want to be a pirate Pirate try your luck in low sec. In a logical sense, why is it so damn important to gank miners for profit?


120 mil spent on ganking a miner put you deep into loss to the tune of around 100 mil.

One of the reasons why its important is because this is the only risk a miner will ever face in high sec. You can easily avoid this by tanking your ships, a lesson many hauler pilots also seem to not be able to grasp.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1952 - 2012-07-30 07:21:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Because what will happen is mining will become the worst profession again and then all the miners will throw forum tantrums again until CCP buffs mining again. I don't care if it becomes a terrible profession again, but I do care that CCP is giving in to stupid things like forum tantrums from people that basically want pvp removed from highsec.


Cheaper minerals doesn't mean just cheaper Catalysts/Tornadoes. It also means cheaper supers.

He knows this, and I'm pretty sure with most Goons and other CFC members like me, he's against further proliferation of supercaps.


Completely agree, EVE does not need more super caps.

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Dave Stark
#1953 - 2012-07-30 07:25:39 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Ganking for profit lets see how that works, you have one ship topped out at 120 mil taking down a ship valued at 280 mil. The gank pilot makes a profit the miner loses. It goes beyond that though right? The gank toon grabs another nado and repeats the process, meanwhile that miner that just got ganked is busy grinding to replace his ****. Ok, fine he got ganked, miners arent bitching that they are getting ganked, they are bitching because the gankers lose such a small amount compared to the miner himself.

Granted, this is eve and dark bullshit is everywhere. However, with changes to barges it will take at least 2 nados if not 3 to drop a barge. Even at 3 that puts ship cost at 270 mil for a 280 mil ship. Sounds like a fair deal to me. High sec isnt a pretty playland where you can comb each other's hair, you can STILL be ganked, its just going to cost you just as much as your costing the miner. If you want to be a pirate Pirate try your luck in low sec. In a logical sense, why is it so damn important to gank miners for profit?

A 50-dollar steel mallet destroys a $300,000 Ferrari. A 10-million-dollar torpedo boat destroys a billion-dollar cruise ship. A few tens of billions of dollars spent on developing a nuclear weapons program can wipe out a trillion-dollar nation.

It's much easier to destroy than to create. Establishing parity between the costs of production and destruction is exactly the thing that an open-ended game like EVE does not need.


your analogies are wrong because neither of those things happen in 30 seconds.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#1954 - 2012-07-30 07:26:30 UTC
Does anyone think, that if supers cost less, more would be out fighting. Or even with plummeting mineral costs, it would still cost to much to openly pvp or risk them?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#1955 - 2012-07-30 07:27:37 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Ganking for profit lets see how that works, you have one ship topped out at 120 mil taking down a ship valued at 280 mil. The gank pilot makes a profit the miner loses. It goes beyond that though right? The gank toon grabs another nado and repeats the process, meanwhile that miner that just got ganked is busy grinding to replace his ****. Ok, fine he got ganked, miners arent bitching that they are getting ganked, they are bitching because the gankers lose such a small amount compared to the miner himself.

Granted, this is eve and dark bullshit is everywhere. However, with changes to barges it will take at least 2 nados if not 3 to drop a barge. Even at 3 that puts ship cost at 270 mil for a 280 mil ship. Sounds like a fair deal to me. High sec isnt a pretty playland where you can comb each other's hair, you can STILL be ganked, its just going to cost you just as much as your costing the miner. If you want to be a pirate Pirate try your luck in low sec. In a logical sense, why is it so damn important to gank miners for profit?

A 50-dollar steel mallet destroys a $300,000 Ferrari. A 10-million-dollar torpedo boat destroys a billion-dollar cruise ship. A few tens of billions of dollars spent on developing a nuclear weapons program can wipe out a trillion-dollar nation.

It's much easier to destroy than to create. Establishing parity between the costs of production and destruction is exactly the thing that an open-ended game like EVE does not need.


your analogies are wrong because neither of those things happen in 30 seconds.


What about pregnancy. A child can cost hundred of thousands of dollars, and all it took was $5 dollars of beer.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Suvari Khashour
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1956 - 2012-07-30 07:30:11 UTC
This is going to be freaking hillarious, i can't wait for the next 'hulkageddon'

we'll have to have a killboard just for miners, with prizes to the miner with the most confirmed killsTwisted

suicide ganking will become suicide spanking...

seriously, im thinking of trading in my Hulk for a Skiff, just so i can go mine ore in the closest belt to Jita.. Pirate
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1957 - 2012-07-30 07:31:20 UTC
rodyas wrote:


What about pregnancy. A child can cost hundred of thousands of dollars, and all it took was $5 dollars of beer.


New mechanic: suicide bang.

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#1958 - 2012-07-30 07:33:27 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
A 50-dollar steel mallet destroys a $300,000 Ferrari. A 10-million-dollar torpedo boat destroys a billion-dollar cruise ship. A few tens of billions of dollars spent on developing a nuclear weapons program can wipe out a trillion-dollar nation.

It's much easier to destroy than to create. Establishing parity between the costs of production and destruction is exactly the thing that an open-ended game like EVE does not need.


your analogies are wrong because neither of those things happen in 30 seconds.

Tell you what: you provide the car, I'll provide the mallet, and then we'll have ourselves a good old-fashioned scientific experiment.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1959 - 2012-07-30 07:36:04 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
Almost 100 pages of griefer tears.

Awesome.

Please point out an example of such tears.


Summary of OP.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
Pipa Porto
#1960 - 2012-07-30 07:39:30 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Octoven wrote:
Ganking for profit lets see how that works, you have one ship topped out at 120 mil taking down a ship valued at 280 mil. The gank pilot makes a profit the miner loses. It goes beyond that though right? The gank toon grabs another nado and repeats the process, meanwhile that miner that just got ganked is busy grinding to replace his ****. Ok, fine he got ganked, miners arent bitching that they are getting ganked, they are bitching because the gankers lose such a small amount compared to the miner himself.

Granted, this is eve and dark bullshit is everywhere. However, with changes to barges it will take at least 2 nados if not 3 to drop a barge. Even at 3 that puts ship cost at 270 mil for a 280 mil ship. Sounds like a fair deal to me. High sec isnt a pretty playland where you can comb each other's hair, you can STILL be ganked, its just going to cost you just as much as your costing the miner. If you want to be a pirate Pirate try your luck in low sec. In a logical sense, why is it so damn important to gank miners for profit?

A 50-dollar steel mallet destroys a $300,000 Ferrari. A 10-million-dollar torpedo boat destroys a billion-dollar cruise ship. A few tens of billions of dollars spent on developing a nuclear weapons program can wipe out a trillion-dollar nation.

It's much easier to destroy than to create. Establishing parity between the costs of production and destruction is exactly the thing that an open-ended game like EVE does not need.


your analogies are wrong because neither of those things happen in 30 seconds.


You're right.
Torpedo Travel time is much less than 30s.
A Nuke's drop time is much less than 30s.
A Sledgehammer will cause Tens of thousands of dollars in Damage in 30s.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto