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Self-destruct changes on Singularity

First post First post
Author
Jack Miton
Holesale
Holesale Operations
#101 - 2012-07-28 01:27:51 UTC
I want to have your babies :)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Magnus Orin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#102 - 2012-07-28 01:46:21 UTC
About fucking time.
Myz Toyou
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2012-07-28 01:47:48 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:

Idea Upon SDing:

- killmail is generated
- no loot drops
- no intel on ship setup is provided
- no insurance is payed out

solves all the problems


I could live with that even if I like to see all faction/officer shizzle on the KM. Atleast CCP moving into the right direction and removing the *** way out of PVP.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#104 - 2012-07-28 01:51:30 UTC
Pleased.
Oh Hi There
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-07-28 02:20:54 UTC
I must follow the crowd in saying that you SHOULD get a killmail for self-destructing...but loot should NOT drop.

Think about it from a tactical approach...why would one self-destruct their own ship in a real-world situation? Because death is incoming, and to prevent the enemy from obtaining valuable cargo inside.

You should get a killmail.
You should NOT get loot.
ChaeDoc II
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2012-07-28 03:39:31 UTC
This just goes to show that if you whine and cry like little babies hard enough for a game-breaking mechanic to be installed, sooner or later you'll get your way.

This is a sad day for EVE Online.
joes Bazooka
Doomheim
#107 - 2012-07-28 03:56:34 UTC
ChaeDoc II wrote:
This just goes to show that if you whine and cry like little babies hard enough for a game-breaking mechanic to be installed, sooner or later you'll get your way.

This is a sad day for EVE Online.


Spoken by someone that couldn't balls up and had to SD his stuffs to save face.
Lord Maldoror
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
#108 - 2012-07-28 04:25:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Maldoror
While very pleased to see progress on the SD issue, I can understand people being concerned about the loot/scuttling aspect.

To maintain the balance of the loot issue and create a 'goal' for someone self-destructing, a sensible compromise might be:

- The rules as outlined, including mail
- No loot if self-destruct is successful but with:
- 5 minute SD timer for capitals
- 10 minute SD timer for supercapitals
- Once cancelled, self-destruct cannot be reactivated under aggression.

A 5 minute timer on a capital and 10 minutes on a supercapital would give someone an ambitious goal to reach toward by overheating everything in a final attempt to deny loot to the attacking party - whilst still giving some chance for smaller gangs to cut through the EHP in time.

Granted, this would still mean that if a larger group of capitals and/or supers all self-destruct, then a lot of groups aren't going to be able to cut through them in time. However, the 5 and 10 minute timers would represent some sort of balance for most situations - and you could argue it might even add the challenge of ship scanning a good primary for the loot you really want Big smile

In that situation, too, the inability to initiate a second self-destruct after a 'cancel' would elminate larger groups of capitals from making 'speculative' self-destructs if unsure whether they will get backup or turn the course of the fight.

Some might even go further and suggest removing the option to cancel at all - but then we'd need some significantly more prominent warnings and hurdles before pressing the big red button (or some mechanic preventing a cancel while constantly aggressed, yet allowing an 'accidental' activation to be cancelled in safety, etc etc.)

At any rate, the longer timers might provide a middle ground on the loot issue. Plus, it would vaguely fit the RP that it takes longer to properly scuttle a much larger ship.

CCP Masterplan wrote:

Yes, we've been kicking around this discussion with the CSM for a while now, and I think I remember seeing Meissa bringing up those numbers.


It was odd to go through all the numbers, screenshots and logs and see the actual result on paper. More even than mails or loot or anything like that, you look at the figures and simply feel the loss of a lot of ship hulls being pounded, weapons being fired, etc. The stuff that ultimately makes the world of Eve go round.
ChaeDoc II
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-07-28 06:03:21 UTC
joes Bazooka wrote:
ChaeDoc II wrote:
This just goes to show that if you whine and cry like little babies hard enough for a game-breaking mechanic to be installed, sooner or later you'll get your way.

This is a sad day for EVE Online.


Spoken by someone that couldn't balls up and had to SD his stuffs to save face.



Says the alt.
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#110 - 2012-07-28 06:08:17 UTC
ChaeDoc II wrote:
joes Bazooka wrote:
ChaeDoc II wrote:
This just goes to show that if you whine and cry like little babies hard enough for a game-breaking mechanic to be installed, sooner or later you'll get your way.

This is a sad day for EVE Online.


Spoken by someone that couldn't balls up and had to SD his stuffs to save face.



Says the alt.


I'm not an alt. And seconded. You're whining because you probably lose nine times out of ten. To those who win, this simply isn't a problem. For everyone else, it's a HUUUUGE problem. Clearly, you're in the latter group.
Ambassador Crane
Hellhound Productions
#111 - 2012-07-28 06:41:33 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:

Idea Upon SDing:

- killmail is generated
- no loot drops
- no intel on ship setup is provided
- no insurance is payed out

solves all the problems


+1 to this.

When you ask most people why they're upset about someone SDing, it's because of the lack of killmail and then the lack of loot. And if you ask most people why they use SD, it's to deny their killers of the loot and then the killmail. This change could upset a lot of people and make the others very happy. In other words, it's a rather one-sided change. By implementing the above recommendation, I'd say it'd be an even balance of give and take from both parties. A balance that I'm sure both would willingly accept.

Only one that won't be easily accepted is the insurance payout. But then everyone was arguing for suicide gankers not to receive insurance payouts. They said it didn't make sense to get paid insurance for purposely getting your ship destroyed. So why should an SD receive an insurance payout?

As for SD timers. My thoughts would be to keep all but the pod as it is. I would surely miss the theatrics of trying to kill a ship before the timer runs out!Twisted But while I can see a faster pod SD could be bad (pod yourself back to your station to get another ship and get back in the fight much faster), majority of 'pod express' users is for other logistical purposes.
Efraya
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#112 - 2012-07-28 07:12:32 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh78T--ZUxY

[b][center]WSpace; Dead space.[/center] [center]Lady Spank for forum mod[/center][/b]

Almox
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2012-07-28 07:43:47 UTC
Zorakk wrote:


Better yet SD should be an AOE explosion that generates a blast wave like the old school AOD DD. Size of blast is based on size of ship. If you got the balls to SD a Super, go for it. Anyone who had aggression when you SD'd gets a KM. And you get one for anyone you wipe out in the blast radius.




Please make this happen, maybe even have a mod for it (I don't mean smart bomb but a SD mod), like a all else's fails take as many as you can with you :)
Steelworks II
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2012-07-28 08:05:57 UTC
exellent change to self-destruct
drop more capitals in to the sacrificial fire for the wormhole gods!
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2012-07-28 09:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Marconus Orion
Add the following please:

- Don't allow self destruct while in a POS shield.
- If entering a POS shield, self destruct timer is cancelled.
- Lighting a cyno cancels self destruct.

Also what is the point of self destruct (scuttling) your ship to deny your enemy loot? Also I can't remember, but do you still pay out insurance? If so, self destruct should cancel the insurance payout.
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club
#116 - 2012-07-28 10:45:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrrax Thorrk
One of the best changes CCP has ever made. Big smile
Thank you, finally.

Joccob wrote:
Yes to killmail. No to loot. Scuttling your ship has a long Naval history in RL. For example the famous
Admiral Graf Spee


You do realize you can still loot a scuttled ship right ?
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2012-07-28 10:58:43 UTC
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
One of the best changes CCP has ever made. Big smile
Thank you, finally.

Joccob wrote:
Yes to killmail. No to loot. Scuttling your ship has a long Naval history in RL. For example the famous
Admiral Graf Spee


You do realize you can still loot a scuttled ship right ?

Well at this point if you can't make the tactical decision to deny loot, why don't they just remove self destruct completely from ships? I am all about there being kill mails and such, but with a properly balanced self destruct timer based on ship class/size blowing up everything including loot should remain an option.
JamesCLK
#118 - 2012-07-28 11:27:20 UTC
Heck yes!

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#119 - 2012-07-28 11:45:59 UTC
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
One of the best changes CCP has ever made. Big smile
Thank you, finally.

Joccob wrote:
Yes to killmail. No to loot. Scuttling your ship has a long Naval history in RL. For example the famous
Admiral Graf Spee


You do realize you can still loot a scuttled ship right ?

It requires EFFORTS and sometimes it's just not worth it. Just imagine looting a scuttled submarine LolLol

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#120 - 2012-07-28 11:48:21 UTC
Mac Zehn wrote:
Please make self destructing ships damage other ships around them tia


Couldn't you at least post with your non-goon alt and not make it completely obvious as to what you are up to?!

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.