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Summer OTA changes

First post
Author
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-07-23 02:03:07 UTC
Doing 10 OTA's in 1 hour? Wow....
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#82 - 2012-07-23 06:50:33 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Jude Nova wrote:

(snip)
Are OTA's easy ??.... Yes.. we run 2 Basi and 8 DPS and still make 100m per hour.! Shocked
There's no secret to it... Wanna know ??? Convo me or join our channel. (Incursion United).

(I dont mean to make above sound like a recruitment add but im just pointing out what Vanguard communitys can do... in this case...us at ICU)

But anyway.... While i agree alot with ISN i understand both sides of the coin and can confirm that BTL and the like have become ghost towns, But will i blame CCP for "nerfing" Vanguards?? No!!!..
(snip)
.


OK So go then with your shiney fleets in null/lo sec Incursions to knock down the Wall of OTAs there.
I'm sure the nerf had nuthing to do with not a single null or lo sec constellation MOM has been spotted since April 24th Roll


goldiiee wrote:
Ok so does this really make sense to anyone?

I keep hearing the constant complaint that ‘OTA’s are too hard’ and that the communities that do run them are ’Elitists that don’t let anyone in their fleet’ If these two item are true then

How are they running them? And, how did they form a fleet if they don’t let anyone in?
(snip)
First lets go with how.
It is done with a focused specialized fleet with the proper balance of range, firepower, and logistics. These types of fleets ca
I guess the long winded speech was unnecessary. Simply put if you can’t do these sites you are doing the site wrong, NOT that the site is wrong. Or that the other guys are cheating.


Talking about myopia: not only is there a wall of OTAs in HI SEC NULL/LO has been absolutely crippled by the Wall of OTAs
I went to the only NULL/LO Incursion (in Ewoks NULL SOV )I've seen yet that dropped to under 50% & pretty much saw the same thing Wall of OTAs. Here's my Journal entry for it :(
2012.07.16 13:14:26 Incursion expired 0 0 LP pool lost
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#83 - 2012-07-24 09:52:49 UTC
These changes will be released with Inferno 1.2 on August 8th

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Kodavor
Iz Doge Korp .
#84 - 2012-07-24 17:17:06 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
These changes will be released with Inferno 1.2 on August 8th


WOOOT !! Thank you %)))
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#85 - 2012-07-24 17:40:39 UTC
Kodavor wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
These changes will be released with Inferno 1.2 on August 8th


WOOOT !! Thank you %)))


You are very welcome :3

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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#86 - 2012-07-25 03:54:25 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Thanks for the definitive date Affinity Big smile
I had a longer post but the forums ate it Cry

To be honest I perfer Assaults over Vanguards but the impending death of communites from the Wall Of OTAs forced me to do soo many Vanguards to keep my community (TDF) alive. It was an act o will for the Armour commiunities leaders to stay alive without mechanics changes( still a bit surprised we outlived BTL PUB with their once vast numbers compared to ours). I'll be glad to get back to Assaults again even though they pay less. The old NCNs actually were more fun with thier randomness but they were 1 room middle too long IMHO.

I did not realize Vanguards were such an integral part of the lo/null sec incursions. The number of assualts done there must be infintessimal?

Been hoping to see some relavent stats about Incursions' histories past 3-4 months from CCP Diagoras in his tweets after his vacation last month but it sounds like the Wall of Text CSM minutes are eating up all his time & he has not peeped at all Roll

I hope you get to see your longer term goals for Incursions realized beore another Team reorginization. I'd have loved to see the site logs mentioned here over the past 4 months http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCf6pXHBFRM


I'm guessing right now Drone content is in your crosshairs?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-07-25 06:40:15 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Kodavor wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
These changes will be released with Inferno 1.2 on August 8th


WOOOT !! Thank you %)))


You are very welcome :3


I'm counting the seconds /)^3^(\


get a room you 2 >:3
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#88 - 2012-07-25 09:00:21 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Thanks for the definitive date Affinity Big smile
I had a longer post but the forums ate it Cry

To be honest I perfer Assaults over Vanguards but the impending death of communites from the Wall Of OTAs forced me to do soo many Vanguards to keep my community (TDF) alive. It was an act o will for the Armour commiunities leaders to stay alive without mechanics changes( still a bit surprised we outlived BTL PUB with their once vast numbers compared to ours). I'll be glad to get back to Assaults again even though they pay less. The old NCNs actually were more fun with thier randomness but they were 1 room middle too long IMHO.

I did not realize Vanguards were such an integral part of the lo/null sec incursions. The number of assualts done there must be infintessimal?

Been hoping to see some relavent stats about Incursions' histories past 3-4 months from CCP Diagoras in his tweets after his vacation last month but it sounds like the Wall of Text CSM minutes are eating up all his time & he has not peeped at all Roll

I hope you get to see your longer term goals for Incursions realized beore another Team reorginization. I'd have loved to see the site logs mentioned here over the past 4 months http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCf6pXHBFRM


I'm guessing right now Drone content is in your crosshairs?


I don't work on that - that would be CCP Bettik. We are on the same team, but we work on seperate projects to maximise the amount of content we can deliver. After Summer vacation I will hopefully be able to give you all more definite answers on what we will release for Winter. Incursion changes (including the OTA change) were not planned for the August release at all, we just felt it was important to not leave this issue until Winter. Hopefully after August 8th we will see an improvement in both Vanguards and Community spirit :)

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

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Team Astro Sparkle

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#89 - 2012-07-25 16:55:54 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:

Incursion changes (including the OTA change) were not planned for the August release at all, we just felt it was important to not leave this issue until Winter. Hopefully after August 8th we will see an improvement in both Vanguards and Community spirit :)


Well thanks for the earlier then planned release then, I hope it breathes life into null/lo sec Incursions too.
lol Community spirit right now is about to blow up into threatened wardecks & Blackbird squads again Twisted it'll be fun watching the farmers threaten each other with pitchforks again.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Thrace Lucre
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2012-07-28 13:28:33 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:

Well thanks for the earlier then planned release then, I hope it breathes life into null/lo sec Incursions too.
lol Community spirit right now is about to blow up into threatened wardecks & Blackbird squads again Twisted it'll be fun watching the farmers threaten each other with pitchforks again.


I do miss watching this kind of drama unfold :(
Would be nice to see the incursion community back at the point where this kind of thing happens when FCs burn out (example: HTIDRaver) and pilots take alts and attempt to take down mothership sites with groups like Brick Squad (example: Ammzi)

Even nicer would be seeing incursions at a point where it's "balanced" in all respects and is both fun and profitable for the pilot running the sites.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#91 - 2012-07-31 05:55:54 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:

Incursion changes (including the OTA change) were not planned for the August release at all, we just felt it was important to not leave this issue until Winter. Hopefully after August 8th we will see an improvement in both Vanguards and Community spirit :)


Well thanks for the earlier then planned release then, I hope it breathes life into null/lo sec Incursions too.
lol Community spirit right now is about to blow up into threatened wardecks & Blackbird squads again Twisted it'll be fun watching the farmers threaten each other with pitchforks again.


Didn't you say that you rage quit over incursions?


I see the true incursion carebear stench in you.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#92 - 2012-08-02 17:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
From the CSM notes I can easily draw the conclusion that the CSM doesn't have a clue about the Incursion communities.
There was not a peep about how we all knew that the 'rollback' would be a complete farce and they didn't even know how badly we were decimated by the Escalation nerf until CCP showed them.The distinct impression I got from the CSM is they'd rather see it die since it doesn't affect their interests
I'm reading that the CSM does not view us as a community because we are not a corp or alliance based which makes us a double anethema because CSM is repeatedly showing they are not at all representitive of HI SEC.
The current CSM is just not a good place to bounce Incursion ideas off of.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#93 - 2012-08-02 17:41:55 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
CCP Affinity one problem with your idea about having scouts as a mini Vanguard trainning area is that you still need someone to FC them that has done it before. Currently we train newbies by vetting thier ideas about fits & then giving them a full taste of a site by throwing them in the deepend but with a big watchfull eye after we make sure they know what tags & broadcasting is.

I guess I'm curious if you're going to want these scout site groups to be fleeted?

Still I sort of like the idea but you better not include any scramblers inside the sites else it'll become a graveyard and turn off potential Incursion runners before we get to throw them into the deepend without floaties...
Current scout sites work without a deadspace acell gate your current thinking thinking continueing that?

Also with scouts not sure how you'll get 5 or so newbies together & include 2 logistics when regular fleets are desperate for logistics unless you are going to have these mini vanguards logi-less which doesn't really train someone upfor any other Incursion site because without logistics not a single non scout can be completed. I guess you can try to have them spider tank (but that will leave them with the impression that spider tanking is viable in any other sitewhich it is not and was especially proved in the original NCNs )

Hope above is help full. An Incursion wading pool that helps us point potenial Incursioners to try out is alot beter then the elitist 'your fit sucks' mantra I always hear.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-08-02 21:32:14 UTC
...Yep, still ******

*goes back to running anoms*

Dont mind me,  just touching your stuff.

CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#95 - 2012-08-03 12:09:05 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Affinity one problem with your idea about having scouts as a mini Vanguard trainning area is that you still need someone to FC them that has done it before. Currently we train newbies by vetting thier ideas about fits & then giving them a full taste of a site by throwing them in the deepend but with a big watchfull eye after we make sure they know what tags & broadcasting is.

I guess I'm curious if you're going to want these scout site groups to be fleeted?

Still I sort of like the idea but you better not include any scramblers inside the sites else it'll become a graveyard and turn off potential Incursion runners before we get to throw them into the deepend without floaties...
Current scout sites work without a deadspace acell gate your current thinking thinking continueing that?

Also with scouts not sure how you'll get 5 or so newbies together & include 2 logistics when regular fleets are desperate for logistics unless you are going to have these mini vanguards logi-less which doesn't really train someone upfor any other Incursion site because without logistics not a single non scout can be completed. I guess you can try to have them spider tank (but that will leave them with the impression that spider tanking is viable in any other sitewhich it is not and was especially proved in the original NCNs )

Hope above is help full. An Incursion wading pool that helps us point potenial Incursioners to try out is alot beter then the elitist 'your fit sucks' mantra I always hear.



I think what you should take from the summit minutes is that Incursions is not being forgotten. It was high on my priority list to discuss with the CSM and, while the ideas were still very high level - we wanted to make sure everything mentioned was included in the minutes.

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Team Astro Sparkle

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#96 - 2012-08-03 15:22:31 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
CCP Affinity wrote:


I think what you should take from the summit minutes is that Incursions is not being forgotten. It was high on my priority list to discuss with the CSM and, while the ideas were still very high level - we wanted to make sure everything mentioned was included in the minutes.


I think you & Soundwave are the only ones that hadn't forgotten about Incursions.

What I took from the summer minutes was that the CSM was clueless about how the Incursion communities were decimated until CCP Soundwave told them
"Soundwave sheepishly mentioned CCP broke incursions and showed the CSM a graph depicting the drop off in incursions activity. There were many “Ohhh snaps” around the table."

CSM gave me a distinct impression of Schadenfreude (or skadefryd ):
"The massive drop off of Vanguard sites was praised since they were relatively risk-free ISK."

And they buy into the forum trolls' lies assertion incursions are 100% risk free:
"Soundwave pointed out that people do die in incursions at rates higher than some other kinds of PvE content"

While only caring about thier own interests:
"UAxDEATH would like to know how any of that related to null sec,"
BTW: UAxDEATH could have been informed not a single MOM site has been destroyed in NULL since the Escalation NERF and beore the nerf they were being run more and more often in NULL which could be attested by CCP Diagoras ( were is he anyways seems like he fell of the face of the earth is he one o the DEVs that had a kid orsomething? )

My after impression is that the CSM would rather see us wither and die:
"Seleene then asked if Incursions were ever going to end."
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#97 - 2012-08-03 15:40:21 UTC
In the CSM notes you mentioned looking into Concord LP store expansion I overheated my brain trying to figure out what'd be good items for newbies would be to get them into fleets... not alot although maybe a Concord equilvalent to the Sansha Purloined Codebreaker that is actually usefull (ie: does not have to be fitted on the useless 1 mid Echelon ) that'd hack towers faster?

Also usefull would be Concord webifiers becuase I think that is one item used extensively by all fleets armour & shield. Of course I'd like the range to be 20km+ Lol but the 14kn Fed Navy ones seem to be the most used becuase those pesky Incursion frigates allways just hangout righ at 10.1km just out o the range of t1&t2 webbiiers.

Strange that we have all those capitol mod BPCs although a the beginning days o the Incursions I recall they were the big sellers to NULL fetching many 9k ISK per LP I think the flooding of the market has reduced Cocord LP value to ~750 ISK per LP.
I now only use my 4.5 million pile of LP to buy faction crystals(ammo) for personal use & have 2 clones with full of 6% Concord implants in all slots and won't buy anymore because I liketo reserve my other clones for NULL SEC jaunts
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#98 - 2012-08-11 08:00:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Spc One
Even with the changes, it's super hard to get people and fleet together.
We tried to form up a fleet but ended waiting for 1 hour for people, then fleet disbanded because we couldn't get 10 people.

I guess no-one is doing incursions anymore.
Ugh

I also want to know why do we get 10.395 mil instead of 10.5 mil if we get 10 people doing incursions ?
Since ccp "Unnerfed" incursions we should get 10.5 mil per tick for 10 people.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#99 - 2012-08-11 17:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Spc One wrote:
Even with the changes, it's super hard to get people and fleet together.
We tried to form up a fleet but ended waiting for 1 hour for people, then fleet disbanded because we couldn't get 10 people.

I guess no-one is doing incursions anymore.
Ugh

I also want to know why do we get 10.395 mil instead of 10.5 mil if we get 10 people doing incursions ?
Since ccp "Unnerfed" incursions we should get 10.5 mil per tick for 10 people.


It may take a bit for peeps to trickle back to Incursions even though the Wall of OTAs(TM) has been brought down.
Another thing is that the ticks in no way are as quick as they were pre NERF so expect the non-social farmers to stay in FW in speedtank frigates until the LP item market crashes big time... sort of a good thing IMHO because FW needed some love & although I doubt they like the farmer luv a few of them will inevitably stick to lo sec.

I suggest you may want to check out one of the more traditional chat channels like "The Ditanian Fleet" for armour or "BTL PUB", tvp, or ISN for shield fleets in the mean time because that is where many weathered out the Escalation nerf bat decimation.

As for the 10.395 versus 10.5 programmer DEVs can't do math: I blame the Icelandic education system. Lol
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'