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Summer OTA changes

First post
Author
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#41 - 2012-07-09 08:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Lumi Leena wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
You want to run the easier ones then run ncos and nmcs, some difficult content needs to be left in each of the incursions systems...

The problem is that people show up right after downtime, do all the NCOs and NMCs, and by the time everyone else arrives there are only OTAs left to do, because nobody wants to do them. They're a lot more difficult than the other sites and have *smaller* reward due to taking longer to do but paying the same.


A quick 'fix' should be to at least double the payouts of OTAs no long development cycle should be necessary for that ( the Kundalini Manifest pays differently in HQ systems )... Dynamic payouts with certain sites that are so unbalanced would be a good carrot & stick that could be reviewed every few months easily. The NCN's also suffer still from how they take such longer times to form fleets! I'd like to see the old more dificult NCN ( post logi allowed on both sides of course ) if it too paid double or 1.5X I bet I could get those fleets running with the hardcore Incursion runners in arnour & entice the VG runners too into the more sociable, larger fleets.
Sort of makes sense in a roleplaying view too since Concord should start throwing money again because these sites now are bringing Sansha closer to total victory in lo/NULL Sec & crushing most systems in HI

So looking back I have to agree with much of what was said here ( although I doubt there is any single solution I think that there are many possible ):
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:


And i can hardly believe that moving things in site/removing and or shifting stuff around is more easy that change few digits in payment...call me mathematical r****d.


This is absolutely the correct "solution". Instead of making them easier why not just increase payment by a couple mil...

You essentially come to the same end by increasing the isk/hr ratio however you do it w/o trivializing content. Different sites with different difficulties and different payouts is OBVIOUSLY the correct solution. Watering everything down to the point where it's all the same bag of ez mode crap is not.



Funny how the development cycle appears to have been thrown out the window for the Inferno changes ( 2 weeks ago there was 1 patch a day for the entire work week!!!) but is strictly followed for the Escalation changes.
I think that the 'development cycle' may have to be sped up again when the mineral stockpiles are depleted due to the Drone Escalation nerf & CCP Soundwave may be forced to introduce the new line of mining ships' changes ahead of schedule.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-07-09 17:40:46 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Today Team Five 0 made some changes to OTA sites, due late Summer. They are as follows:

1. Move the tower closer to the entrance
2. Remove the Maras
3. Reduce the effective hit points - including a significant Niarja and Tama reduction

We are aware that the OTA sites are causing a lot of problems at the moment, and while we still have long-term plans for Incursions, we didn't want to make you wait for the OTA changes. I will update this thread when the changes hit SISI.

- Affinity



I tell you! These cheeky Irish Dev's changing things :P

Looking forward to it. \o/

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear

Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-07-09 17:42:26 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Lumi Leena wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
You want to run the easier ones then run ncos and nmcs, some difficult content needs to be left in each of the incursions systems...

The problem is that people show up right after downtime, do all the NCOs and NMCs, and by the time everyone else arrives there are only OTAs left to do, because nobody wants to do them. They're a lot more difficult than the other sites and have *smaller* reward due to taking longer to do but paying the same.


A quick 'fix' should be to at least double the payouts of OTAs no long development cycle should be necessary for that ( the Kundalini Manifest pays differently in HQ systems )... Dynamic payouts with certain sites that are so unbalanced would be a good carrot & stick that could be reviewed every few months easily. The NCN's also suffer still from how they take such longer times to form fleets! I'd like to see the old more dificult NCN ( post logi allowed on both sides of course ) if it too paid double or 1.5X I bet I could get those fleets running with the hardcore Incursion runners in arnour & entice the VG runners too into the more sociable, larger fleets.
Sort of makes sense in a roleplaying view too since Concord should start throwing money again because these sites now are bringing Sansha closer to total victory in lo/NULL Sec & crushing most systems in HI

So looking back I have to agree with much of what was said here ( although I doubt there is any single solution I think that there are many possible ):
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:


And i can hardly believe that moving things in site/removing and or shifting stuff around is more easy that change few digits in payment...call me mathematical r****d.


This is absolutely the correct "solution". Instead of making them easier why not just increase payment by a couple mil...

You essentially come to the same end by increasing the isk/hr ratio however you do it w/o trivializing content. Different sites with different difficulties and different payouts is OBVIOUSLY the correct solution. Watering everything down to the point where it's all the same bag of ez mode crap is not.



Funny how the development cycle appears to have been thrown out the window for the Inferno changes ( 2 weeks ago there was 1 patch a day for the entire work week!!!) but is strictly followed for the Escalation changes.
I think that the 'development cycle' may have to be sped up again when the mineral stockpiles are depleted due to the Drone Escalation nerf & CCP Soundwave may be forced to introduce the new line of mining ships' changes ahead of schedule.



Did anyone else just glance at this post and go, Well.. F*ck am i reading that...


I thought you left the game, Did you go to WOW, i heard the IQ went up a little bit.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear

Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-07-09 21:45:36 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Today Team Five 0 made some changes to OTA sites, due late Summer. They are as follows:

1. Move the tower closer to the entrance
2. Remove the Maras
3. Reduce the effective hit points - including a significant Niarja and Tama reduction

We are aware that the OTA sites are causing a lot of problems at the moment, and while we still have long-term plans for Incursions, we didn't want to make you wait for the OTA changes. I will update this thread when the changes hit SISI.

- Affinity


\o/ Our voices have been heard!
KanashiiKami
#45 - 2012-07-10 02:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: KanashiiKami
incursions used to be interesting...

then i find mining to be more interesting... (after incursions got nerfed)... in 2 hrs i fill up my orca that actually makes more ISK than Q-ing for fleets ... WOW !!!

i have a feeling that CCP will not be rebalancing the incursions to the point that it becomes a smiley corner of the game, for that matter, why has TEC moons become a ISK printing machine and making some players smile??? bad rebalancing.

anyway, since the rebalance is only on OTAs, i do not bear much hope for ... what CCP is about to do in overall.

IF incursions makes too much isk, then let the market balance the ISK sink, players will still complain but market forces will self adjust. when you rebalance the game wrongly, it does not self rebalance like the market does. lets face it CCP, you created incursions, made alot of people happy, then you killed it, along with the fun of the thousands of us in it.

the only thing that made a variable in interesting incursion content was to be able to fleet up with space friends and have a good time and still earn isk together ... that now is not longer an enjoyment as you pull your hair out either waiting for fleets, or get trashed in chat Q because they whine that you are not leet enough to join the incursion fleets, etc ... which is hilarious. how on earth will even new pilots get the fun? logi pilots are going to lose their hair on the head and the pxxxc hair all together.

CCP, as much as there will always be people that are unhappy and hence whine, there will also be real players who play and really feel that there is not much fun left in the game, so please do something about it.

no beer for you CCP !

WUT ???

KanashiiKami
#46 - 2012-07-10 02:44:47 UTC
so in a fleet ...

everyone fleets up (time used = x)

everyone enters with certainty that risk is involved (risk factor = y)

everyone knows it takes time to complete a site (time used = z)

x,y and z is trying to balance with : payout and great company (served up at the end =enjoyment factor)

so where does the rebalancing of just an OTA EHP fit in? is tipping just the OTA EHP scales going to result in great increase in enjoyment factor in incursions?

WUT ???

Kamden Line
Sovereign Citizen and other Tax Evasion Schemes
#47 - 2012-07-10 05:00:26 UTC
I'm amazed there is no trolling by nulsec Santum runners.

Delve must be pretty busy to keep them all in CAOD Big smile.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#48 - 2012-07-10 10:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
WOW OTAs are a tedious mess. I helped in clearing a few out again in GALL space as the Vanguards became a 100% WALL OF OTAs again ( 25 otaS IN the constellation Straight )around 8 hours before downtime. My god it was so ******* tedious.
It is just no fun anymore. CONGRATs on sucking the fun out of the game DEVs. After 3-4 OTAs the fleet collapsed on itself
leaving a few non OTAs for others to do but there was no one else left in the community to do it.
The HQ community is still alive but how much longer can they without the Vanguards to recruit from?

lol: Pretty soon with numbers dwindling you're going to see a white flag spring up in NULL asking for CCP to stop spawning Incursions in NULL because Sansha HAS WON IN NULL! There has not been an INCURSION KILLED IN NULL OR LO SEC
SINCE THE NERF!!! SANSHA WON Shocked
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Felicity Barrington
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-07-10 12:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Barrington
DarthNefarius wrote:
WOW OTAs are a tedious mess. I helped in clearing a few out again in GALL space as the Vanguards became a 100% WALL OF OTAs again ( 25 otaS IN the constellation Straight )around 8 hours before downtime. My god it was so ******* tedious.
It is just no fun anymore. CONGRATs on sucking the fun out of the game DEVs. After 3-4 OTAs the fleet collapsed on itself
leaving a few non OTAs for others to do but there was no one else left in the community to do it.
The HQ community is still alive but how much longer can they without the Vanguards to recruit from?

lol: Pretty soon with numbers dwindling you're going to see a white flag spring up in NULL asking for CCP to stop spawning Incursions in NULL because Sansha HAS WON IN NULL! There has not been an INCURSION KILLED IN NULL OR LO SEC
SINCE THE NERF!!! SANSHA WON Shocked


Fleets get through HS OTA's just fine, infact, I prefer OTA's to NCO's. If you are setup for OTA's, you can get through them quite quickly and do around 8/9 an hour, a little less if you don't use a dedicated hacker.

Remember, to be optimal in vanguards after the "knee-jerk" nerf: No shiney, no likey.

If you cannot be shiney, go and join TVP in HQ's, they are quite fun. :)

Added:
CCP made a major mistake in nerfing LS incursions, but this is the same people that nerfed RP and left the Moon Goo in place.
Seleucus Ontuas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-07-10 13:57:45 UTC
The main thing I want to know is when these changes are hitting SISI.
Miss Yanumano
Cadence Industrial Syndicate
#51 - 2012-07-10 16:27:35 UTC
Good thing CCP are still looking at Incursions! However, I've got a question!

How many low/null Incursion mothership sites have been successfully completed since the latest Incursion changes?
Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#52 - 2012-07-10 16:58:58 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
WOW OTAs are a tedious mess. I helped in clearing a few out again in GALL space as the Vanguards became a 100% WALL OF OTAs again ( 25 otaS IN the constellation Straight )around 8 hours before downtime. My god it was so ******* tedious.
It is just no fun anymore. CONGRATs on sucking the fun out of the game DEVs. After 3-4 OTAs the fleet collapsed on itself
leaving a few non OTAs for others to do but there was no one else left in the community to do it.
The HQ community is still alive but how much longer can they without the Vanguards to recruit from?

lol: Pretty soon with numbers dwindling you're going to see a white flag spring up in NULL asking for CCP to stop spawning Incursions in NULL because Sansha HAS WON IN NULL! There has not been an INCURSION KILLED IN NULL OR LO SEC
SINCE THE NERF!!! SANSHA WON Shocked


Sounds like an unsub vacation is overdue again.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#53 - 2012-07-10 18:36:43 UTC
Miss Yanumano wrote:
Good thing CCP are still looking at Incursions! However, I've got a question!

How many low/null Incursion mothership sites have been successfully completed since the latest Incursion changes?


Zero ( 0 ), none, nada
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Ana'Gia
Pink Bunny Club
#54 - 2012-07-10 19:34:13 UTC
Sounds good to me.

So VGs will be fixed again.
Hope you will take a look at Assaults and HQs after that.

Enjoy your summer vacations CCP.
Kodavor
Iz Doge Korp .
#55 - 2012-07-12 09:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kodavor
When will the changes be up on SiSi ? Or are they implemented partly ?
ChemicalQueen
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-07-12 14:36:34 UTC
Miss Yanumano wrote:
Good thing CCP are still looking at Incursions! However, I've got a question!

How many low/null Incursion mothership sites have been successfully completed since the latest Incursion changes?


None. CFC Stopped doing Incursions after the big patch due to other activities paying more isk/hr. It took a lot of organization to do low/null incursions, and it just wasn't worth it anymore.
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club
#57 - 2012-07-14 09:38:58 UTC
Speaking of incursions, does anyone bother flying that space turd with the head of a fly known as the revenant?
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-07-14 13:04:54 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Today Team Five 0 made some changes to OTA sites, due late Summer. They are as follows:

1. Move the tower closer to the entrance
2. Remove the Maras
3. Reduce the effective hit points - including a significant Niarja and Tama reduction

We are aware that the OTA sites are causing a lot of problems at the moment, and while we still have long-term plans for Incursions, we didn't want to make you wait for the OTA changes. I will update this thread when the changes hit SISI.

- Affinity



Make Command Ships to be able to enter a Cruiser Side of the NCN

Would make a nice change.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#59 - 2012-07-14 15:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Pink Marshmellow wrote:
Speaking of incursions, does anyone bother flying that space turd with the head of a fly known as the revenant?



CCP_Diagoras wrote:

29 May Tweet:
Supercarriers: 3,463. 2,049 Nyx, 826 Aeon, 414 Wyvern, 172 Hel, 2 Revenant. So, 4,405 characters with a supercap as their active ship atm.



So a month & half ago there were 2 player pilotable space turds... dunno if any got flushed since then but I bet if one was we'd heard about it!
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Jakerien Pahaydan
Flux Divinity
#60 - 2012-07-15 09:34:03 UTC
Hi,
"we didn't want to make you wait for the OTA changes". The recent rollback was insignificant IMO, too little and already too late. Does CCP think the end of summer is not waiting? Your patient is beyond critical condition. Go ahead and wait to start CPR in late summer. Vanguards will be long dead and buried by then. Sad