EVE General Discussion

EVE is NOT a abbreviation of Everyone Versus Everyone

Stop making **** up.

Personally i just say "Singularity is that way"

Thanks everyone for replying, some of you are very "passionate" about it .
It's nice to hear both sides of the argument.

Right vs Privilege

Ayeshah in #2 pointed out that "rights" is not exactly a helpful term to be used here, "privileges" is better.

I agree with her. "Rights" implies the sense of entitlement, which might not be the best word to describe activities like ganking and mining.

That misuse of the word has also lead to disputes as pointed out by Smegma in 3# , Tippia in #8 and Mag's #9

Mag's and Smegma asked for clarification on what did I mean by "rights" in



By "Right", or Ayeshah's better alternative "Privilege", I am referring to the ability of players to enjoy EVE in the playing-style that they prefer. I used the same word to maintain the validity of the opposite argument:



Obviously these two "Privileges" are discordant to each other.

Since I am neither a miner or a ganker, I can't imagine how conflicting it is for them to experience the incompatibility:
When you sincerely want to respect other player's privilege, while wanting to maintain yours.

This incompatibility, when taken too personally in their psyche, might be the source of many angry comments we read in forums that discuss Ganking. It is amazing how we human beings can get very emotional about these things.

As mentioned in the OP, I believe that

1) Forcing a combat pilot to mine when he is fighting (or ganking), or
2) Forcing an industrial pilot to fight when he is mining,

are both trespassing the privileges of players to experience EVE in the way that they enjoy. Luckily, only one of the two are constantly occurring, the other is merely to illustrate a comparative analogy. If CCP makes the first one possible, space battles would be hilariously confusing

EVE is what we make it to be, depending on how serious we are about it

Thor made an important observation in #4 that most pilots, which he referred to as "regular PVPers" and "competent carebears", are not taking this issue too seriously.

They just enjoy the game and adapt to the situation.

I would still maintain that this adaptation goes both ways; players adapting to the game and the game (CCP) adapting to player's demands.

Theoretically, If significant enough numbers demand a "social darwinism", as Smegma put it, EVE will evolves into that ethically primitive society. But if the community's personal values favor the "being kind to thy neighbor", EVE will shift into an optimistic simulation of futuristic civilization.

The philosophical caveat is, will that still be EVE?




Tor in #10 and Smegma his same comment also underlined an excellent point; there are more than two views about this issue.

When I said "Opinions are spread between these two poles ", I was hinting at the spectrum that exists between those two opinions.
But I did not emphasize that in the Subject unfortunately (honestly because I wrote the Subject last and was sleepy at the time ).

Tor and Smegma are absolutely right. In any complex issues, there is rarely a simple black and white divisions in terms of opinions. That applies to trivial gaming contention like Ganking, but also in essential, Real Life issues such as in politic or religion.

What most important is for us to learn to debate and disagree with one another in a tolerant, respectful atmosphere.

Anyway, thanks guys for participating, and happy mining or ganking, or both!


P.S.: Some other comments are great also, like the existence of Morality in EVE #14 by Mystic. It's a fascinating subject, but I've got to go for now. A subject for a new thread perhaps

I loved this analogy, keep posting.

I went to quote this post to say something, and got completely distracted due to the ridiculous amount of BBCode in these posts.

Anyway I see "EVE" as kind of a metaphor. New Eden is the grounds for a new era of humanity and a new civilization, and the EVE gate is the "mother" which brought forth the ancestors of this civilization.
Or something.

Solution is coming in the fall with the mining barge changes.
No other changes required.

Well neutral RR could be changed but I don't think CCP wants to deal with all the petitions that will come out of it so I doubt it will happen anytime this century.

Ganking, scamming... be in in the market or in space... PVP IS EVE, there is no question about that.

The question really is, is suicide ganking a non-combat ship the type of PVP we are striving for. Is that the pinnacle we are satisfied with?

I dont think it should be completely eliminated, I just dont think people who suicide gank miners, should be talking about how good they are. Especially when it comes to their overestimation of what they bring to the game.

I've never seen an eve video highlighting the excitement of killing a ship that can't shoot back.

Anyway...
The real problem here isn't ganking, its the POS s@!tty @$s criminal flagging system.
That garbage needed a complete overhaul 9 years ago.

Give people a real way to get back at people who hide behind the terrible HiSec mechanics.

Wait a minute there mister

stopping other people playing the game the way 'they like' is hillariously entertaining

Actually for those that want to be AFK or feel they need the extra protection they will be using the BS mining barge.
Those that are paying attention and yes some that have more ISK then sense will continue to AFK in a hulk or switch to the covetor.

Either way options.
Ganking in of itself is not a Issue.
When it turns into an epidemic via meta gaming then it can be a problem.
When/if that happens CCP will have to deal with it.

Are we there yet, apparently not.

This seems an issue already addressed by CCP with the new mining barges coming soon, so why beat a dead horse of a topic?