EVE General Discussion

One issue that never fails to provoke passionate responses from capsuleers is Ganking. Opinions are spread between these two poles:

Ganking is PvP, a part of EVE

This side would argue for the association of ganking with what EVE means, and how the game should be played. All activities in EVE are PvP in one way or another, and no pilot is excluded from that reality. Ganking is just a part of it.

Some may even proud of being gankers, dismissing the critics who reject their worldview. Comments range from polite disagreements ("EVE is a PvP game, and ganking is PvP") to veiled insults ("Hello Kitty Online is that way").

Stopping ganking is hurting EVE, because it denies players the right to play as they like.
EVE is a PvP game, and gankers are playing the game as it is meant to be.


Ganking is destroying EVE

On the other side of the fence of course are those who reject that association.

For them, a "PvP", a "fight", offers an image of two trained MMA fighters clashing in a cage, or a dramatic scene of a medieval knight throwing a sword to his opponent to be picked up, because defeating an unarmed man would be an insult his knighthood.

Ganking on the other hand, is akin to a big man sneaking behind a small boy and kill him while he is fishing. The big man later feels good about his win, calling that a "fight". He doesn't even consider that a cowardice, and instead blame the boy for not minding his surroundings.

Ganking is hurting EVE, as it is by definition trespassing the rights of players who prefer non-combat styles of PvP , such as mining.

As it is wrong to force a combat pilot to mine when he is fighting, it is just as unacceptable to force an industrial pilot to fight when he is mining.


EVE is what we make it to be

Of course, like any complex issues that have a whiff of philosophical flavors, there is no simple answer to this. CCP has tried to, and should continue to, remain neutral in this issue.

We, the pilots of EVE, are the ones who will shape what kind of community we are.

If we celebrate ganking as a fascinating PvP, CCP will have to let it spread. If we ostracise gankers as cowards who are hurting EVE, CCP will find a way to stop it.


Finding a resolution: Could we learn from Chess?

The challenge for CCP is to provide a resolution to this philosophical conflict without antagonizing the either the gankers nor the miners.

One idea perhaps is by rewarding balance engagements.

In Chess, players are rated by ELO system. One draw against a Grandmaster worths more to your ranking than beating 10 low-rating amateurs. So players are always looking to win against opponents with similar or higher rating.

If we have a ranking system like ELO, do you think it will encourage players to seek MMA cage encounters instead of killing a boy who fish?

Do you have other suggestions? Or do you think ganking is good for EVE? Why?


P.S.: I love EVE and want the best for the community, so I try to be constructive in this discussion, I apologize if I fall short of that. Thanks in advance for your constructive contributions to this discussion :)


Response to comments is in #25

Ganking isn't as much of a problem as the security mechanisms of high sec.

I mean wtf, -10 can enter in a pod? Where's even the fun in that?

As for the bolded parts, yes it is pvp, no it is not destroying Eve, it just sucks in a normal way. For you, anyway.


What rights? Wtf are you talking about?


Oh so you want as to cry as loud as possible. Nope, not participating. Also CCP doesn't "have to" do anything. They can remove ganking if they want, even though you aren't crying, or they can keep the mechanics in place like they are, even with your crying.

What you mean is: "I can't afk mine anymore while watching MLP:FiM on youtube!! (good series, granted) CCP please change the game mechanics cause I suck at playing Eve!!"

You could always, you know, pay attention to your environment, put hardeners on, do something else than mine in high sec, etc..

One more thing: There aren't just two perspectives on ganking. There are many. Not as many as there are Eve players, but many. You just picked "two" to make your tears-essay easier for yourself (suits you, high sec miner mentality) and to prevent yourself from actually putting any kind of thought into the subject.

PS: No I'm not a ganker, and I have nothing against afk miners. But the flaw in your gameplay routine should be obvious to you. Don't act so surprised. I don't make a Q.Q topic every time someone undercuts me either. This is a game of social darwinism. Someone with a plan like yours will fall short and rightly so.

PPS: I have considered to pick up ganking just for the epic tears. That idea would never occure to me without postings like yours.

miners need to stop complaining because they let themselves get ganked. simple as.

There is no need for a formal CCP backed ranking system to encourage 'better' PvP. People have their own reasons to do what they do for whatever reason they do it. To create ranks is to fix the entire situation into a very narrow set of concepts and trap it there.

As long as spaceships violence other spaceships all is as it should be. Someone's desire not to be violenced is irrelevant. Sometimes others can't find targets. If they cried out for ccp to force people to be around for them to shoot they would be told tough luck. Avoid being shot. It is an active excercise and one will not always be sucessful.

No one is locked out of a playing style. Being ganked is as much a decision made as what ore to mine.

Not liking something that is valid and nonexploit gameplay does not make it wrong.

Stop asking CCP to fix something that one can fix oneself.

What rights?

Miners mining non-stop with no risk is bad for eve. I think if a miner hasn't been ganked after 30 days they should self destruct a buy a new ship to contribute to the economy.

I think a ranking system would be very interesting.

Since KMs are here to stay, CCP could add in a ranking system that would allow people to stroke their epeen even more.

Each ship would be given a rank type, with things like miners, pods, shuttles and noobships being the lowest. Add in a modifier for beating a higher ranked player and you could create motivation to go after the bigger guys.


To make blobbing less attractive (though it will always be the choice when something matters) make the points divide by the number of attackers on a KM.


Won't stop ganking of course, but it would be a nice addition to KM whoring.

One can 'play as one likes' insofar as it does not stop any other player 'playing as they like' with the proviso that neither party is breaking any of CCP's rules.

Everyone
Versus
Everyone

Stop making **** up.

Ganking is part and parcel of eve but there is no punishment out there that deters gankers. Unfortunately the punishment of losing your ship is negated by the ISK from the salvage and loot from the gankers victim. Until the isk cost is greater than the rewards from ganking it will continue.