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Are constant rolling alts an exploit?

Author
Wolfgang Shogaatsu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-05-24 22:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolfgang Shogaatsu
I have two very similar questions and I would feel like I was double posting if I made them in separate threads so here goes.

I'm not 100% sure this is the right place for all of this so feel free to tell me to move it elsewhere and I will be happy to oblige.

I wish to ask about the following process and whether or not it is considered exploitative: (I have done a couple of forum searches on this and came up with nothing so apologies if my forum-fu is fail):

1) 21 Day trial a new account, using your main account as a buddy (I know this is allowed in vanilla form).
2) Plex that account thereby also plexing your main.
3)Train alt to light cynos.
4)Cancel account to avoid reccuring fees.
5)With one day left go back to step one.

I understand it is against to rules to create throwaway pirate alts as that's considered side-stepping game punishment mechanics but is this practice disallowed?

My second question links to this. Independently of whether rolling cyno alts constantly is allowed or not, are you allowed to roll alts in order to maintain the ability to access the rookie chat channel?

Thank you in advance for your answers,

Wolf
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#2 - 2012-05-24 22:07:53 UTC
Each alt is on a separate account.

You are paying for the account with PLEX - Albeit with signup PLEX.

I believe that PLEX transfer is your question. I am not sure if you can receive a PLEX for "yourself" as opposed to new players.

Is this about right in what you are asking?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#3 - 2012-05-24 22:09:40 UTC
Wolfgang Shogaatsu wrote:

I understand it is against to rules to create throwaway pirate alts as that's considered side-stepping game punishment mechanics but is this practice disallowed?

I think Buddy System abuse is disallowed. You would be effectively abusing it to a) create infinite accounts and b) pay 1/2 the subscription price. This would count as abuse, and you'd get in trouble.

Wolfgang Shogaatsu wrote:

My second question links to this. Independently of whether rolling cyno alts constantly is allowed or not, are you allowed to roll alts in order to maintain the ability to access the rookie chat channel?

That's allowed, yeah.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Wolfgang Shogaatsu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-05-24 22:11:56 UTC
AFK Hauler wrote:
I believe that PLEX transfer is your question. I am not sure if you can receive a PLEX for "yourself" as opposed to new players.

Is this about right in what you are asking?

Basically the process is activate buddy trail 21 day malarky, transfer ISK, buy plex on alt, activate. I have done this before when I first decided to get a mining alt and it gave me game time on my main. As far as I am aware and have been told that is completely fine in of itself.

However, my question is more related to the recyling of alts in order to constantly have cyno alts you never actually need to pay extra for and of course the rookie chat question as well.
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#5 - 2012-05-24 22:15:25 UTC
Wolfgang Shogaatsu wrote:
AFK Hauler wrote:
I believe that PLEX transfer is your question. I am not sure if you can receive a PLEX for "yourself" as opposed to new players.

Is this about right in what you are asking?

Basically the process is activate buddy trail 21 day malarky, transfer ISK, buy plex on alt, activate. I have done this before when I first decided to get a mining alt and it gave me game time on my main. As far as I am aware and have been told that is completely fine in of itself.

However, my question is more related to the recyling of alts in order to constantly have cyno alts you never actually need to pay extra for and of course the rookie chat question as well.




As I understand from what you wrote, no.
Wolfgang Shogaatsu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-24 22:16:59 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I think Buddy System abuse is disallowed. You would be effectively abusing it to a) create infinite accounts and b) pay 1/2 the subscription price. This would count as abuse, and you'd get in trouble.

That's my issue, the word "abuse" is vauge and there is a gradient between avoiding sec status punishment and rolling an account to keep being able to post in rookie, on which side of legality do cyno alts sit exactly?

Do you know of any actual rulings made pertaining to cyno alts specifically? I've definitely heard the lion's share about pirate alts but I can't for the life of me find anything on cyno alts.
Wolfgang Shogaatsu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-05-24 22:18:48 UTC
AFK Hauler wrote:
As I understand from what you wrote, no.


Sorry I don't understand what you're saying no to exactly here :$
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#8 - 2012-05-24 22:28:20 UTC
Wolfgang Shogaatsu wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I think Buddy System abuse is disallowed. You would be effectively abusing it to a) create infinite accounts and b) pay 1/2 the subscription price. This would count as abuse, and you'd get in trouble.

That's my issue, the word "abuse" is vauge and there is a gradient between avoiding sec status punishment and rolling an account to keep being able to post in rookie, on which side of legality do cyno alts sit exactly?

Do you know of any actual rulings made pertaining to cyno alts specifically? I've definitely heard the lion's share about pirate alts but I can't for the life of me find anything on cyno alts.

"Rulings" on game moderation are strictly between the player and the GM, so no, I do not have access to any. Abuse is whatever CCP feels is bad for the game or their finances. People running two accounts for the price of one, while generating useless inactive accounts, sounds like both of those put together.

You could file a rules petition asking specifically if this is allowed, or hope for a GM post in this thread, but I wouldn't try your idea before getting confirmation it's okay.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Wolfgang Shogaatsu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-05-24 22:33:25 UTC
To the petitions it is!

If I get a response before a GM replies on this thread I will update my main post.

Thanks both for your info.

Wolf
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-05-24 22:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Wolfgang Shogaatsu wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I think Buddy System abuse is disallowed. You would be effectively abusing it to a) create infinite accounts and b) pay 1/2 the subscription price. This would count as abuse, and you'd get in trouble.

That's my issue, the word "abuse" is vauge and there is a gradient between avoiding sec status punishment and rolling an account to keep being able to post in rookie, on which side of legality do cyno alts sit exactly?

Do you know of any actual rulings made pertaining to cyno alts specifically? I've definitely heard the lion's share about pirate alts but I can't for the life of me find anything on cyno alts.

Vagueness is necessary for that sort of policy - otherwise players would instantly start looking for loopholes.

A sufficiently vague policy allows the GM to take likely intent and circumstances into account when making a decision and it prevents the policy from having to be updated each time some player thinks he found a new loophole.

Your "question" sounds to me like

"Dear CCP, I want the utility from two accounts but I don't want to pay for two. Are you ok with me abusing the buddy system to achieve the desired result?"

Now read that question and use your commonsense.

What is the intended purpose of the trial system and buddy program?
What is the motivation of your use case?
Are the intended purpose and your purpose at odds with each other?
How do your intended action affect (a) gameplay and (b) CCP's coffers?

I don't know what's wrong with people (and maybe it's culture/internet-related) but I am getting pretty fed up with all the people who knowingly ignore the intent of restrictions/rules so they can find "clever" loopholes by interpreting everything as literally as possible.
What kind of thinking is that? I know that what I am going to do is not ok but now I will just turn my brain off and pretend I'm mentally ******** so i can justify doing it anyways.
Don't like playing by the rules and don't have the balls to admit to yourself that this is the case? Spent too much time dealing with byzantine bureaucracies and lost your commonsense on the way? Think the other guy doesn't realize what you are up to?

.

Tiffany Goodwill
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-07-18 07:32:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiffany Goodwill
Vera Algaert wrote:


...

Your "question" sounds to me like

"Dear CCP, I want the utility from two accounts but I don't want to pay for two. Are you ok with me abusing the buddy system to achieve the desired result?"

Now read that question and use your commonsense.

What is the intended purpose of the trial system and buddy program?
What is the motivation of your use case?
Are the intended purpose and your purpose at odds with each other?
How do your intended action affect (a) gameplay and (b) CCP's coffers?

...


Checking the forums, this issue has been around for atleast 2 years, if it was a major issue I feel it would be added to the buddy offer T&C, because banning a paying account means less money in CCPs "coffers". Since this concept has had moderate documentation on the forums, and threads have not been deleted, although they have been locked. So this supports that the concept is legal.

However I haven't seen any well written step by step posts on Wikis, or forum confirmation, so that supports that the concept is illegal. Thus the whole things kind of confusing to know where CCP stands on the subject.

I also petitioned CCP and am waiting on a response.

Edit: Removed False info
Alpheias
Farmhouse.
Fraternity.
#12 - 2012-07-18 07:38:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Alpheias
Separate characters on a secondary account, third account and so on, to serve a purpose is not an exploit. To fuel the very notion is just silly.

It would be a exploit if you had character A and character B on one account and being logged on character A and character B at the same time.

edit: If you just use (abuse) the buddy system to make a bunch of disposable account to light cynos or whatever, then you are just a douchebag and I fully support CCP in banning these individuals that take advantage of the system.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Charles Case
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-07-18 07:40:57 UTC
you're going to get banned
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#14 - 2012-07-18 07:43:59 UTC
Yup you would get banned of you did that.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-07-18 08:01:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
I am not aware of a crystal clear response from a GM on this matter, nor of anybody who actually got warned/banned over rerolling trials. However CCP have stated several times in uncertain terms that "excessive abuse of the buddy invite will not be tolerated".

Is making a new cynoalt whenever the last one expires wrong? Maybe, but I don't think anybody would get banned over it. Is making 20 trial alts and using them to spam in all trade hubs at once okay? Most definitely not.
Melikor Tissant
Odd Fluffy Bunnies
#16 - 2012-07-18 08:02:08 UTC
From the initial OP question, I think its a sort of an exploit, but not an obvious one.
You can use that way to infinatly make new accounts.
Account A invite B, B before ending invites C and send plex to A, C before ending invites D and send plex to A and so on.
The only account you need to pay for is A.

As long as CCP say "this is not allowed", I'm not sure you will get banned.

But basically you can use that way to make a new account, train a character for almost free, and sell it for the price of 2xplex + a few extra ISK to make a profit, and than kill that account.

You can also use that way for example to chain invite 3-4 accounts, train them to gank, use them to gank for a couple of weeks, and than before the end make new accounts with fresh characters, 0.0 security, and restart the fun.

This in a whole opens a lot of options.
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#17 - 2012-07-18 11:03:28 UTC
I thought i remember reading somewhere that abuse of the buddy system in such a way was considered an exploit. Making throwaway alts weather it be for pirating or not doesnt exactly seem like its within the rules.

It would lead to false statistics in all those loves charts and graphs CCP like to give!
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-07-18 11:13:28 UTC
Wolfgang Shogaatsu wrote:
My second question links to this. Independently of whether rolling cyno alts constantly is allowed or not, are you allowed to roll alts in order to maintain the ability to access the rookie chat channel?






Unless something has changed recently, alts have no effect where the Rookie help channel is concerned. Rookie help is only available for 30 days from when you start the account. But of course the other help channel is available.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#19 - 2012-07-18 11:52:47 UTC
Considering how dizzy they will get, you can roll alts all you like.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)

Shad0wsFury
Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
Seventh Sanctum.
#20 - 2012-07-18 12:52:48 UTC
In the past, CCP has come down hard on people who abuse the buddy system. I don't think the case the OP lays out would result in a full ban or anything, but CCP might take away the offender's ability to use the buddy program. Someone who creates a number of new alts at once and farms game time with the buddy program on a bigger scale very well might get a ban for it though.
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