EVE General Discussion

If you decided to do that, i'm in :)
Last time i went into null i made it like 20 jumps in before i got tricked and blown up :)

Looking forward to do that again.

PvP as a hobby? Right there is the core problem. People are used to WoW and other starter MMO's where combat is only by consent, among like-leveled players, and with absolutely no point whatsoever.

People who think of PvP only as a pointless Battleground duel have missed the boat entirely on PvP as anything but an E-Peen waving device. Seriously, people accuse Eve PvP'ers of this but it's the non-PvP'er that only wants PvP to be a hobby, something removed from the actual game, and to serve no purpose except to pretend to be a warrior- but only when it's safe and you're totally ready to fight......blame those players for why Eve's PvP takes a black eye.

It's not the dedicated PvP'ers or pirates that are the problem in Eve, it's the weekend warrior wannabes that rely on consequence-free combat to pretend to be fighters.
They're the ones that show up to 'combat zones (low sec) ' in the shiniest boat their free PvE isk bought them- then run to the forums to cry that they lost despite EFT swearing they had the ultimate set up. Complaining bitterly that they 'had' to fight somewhere other than when they were ready for it.
Or more likely complaining that the newb in the T1 frigate they jumped in their 1bil canoe- actually has friends that come to his rescue- complaining about being out numbered or blobbed. They'll happily pounce on some poor sucker for a cheap KM, but if it blows up in their face, ZOMG, this game is terrible and needs 'fixed' right away....... That's GOOD PvP, not a bug in the system.

New Eden is at war, is full of dangerous space criminals, and just like RL, the NPC cops aren't there to protect you- only punish those that have already committed a crime...

The game is not a series of individual PvE single player bits with an arena to go play kiddie PvP on occasion. PvP matters in Eve.

Simply, if we (collective PvP community of Eve) wanted to swim in the shallow end of the PvP pool, we'd still be playing WoW.

i mostly live in high-sec. I don't PvP. Why? Because I don't F'n feel like it. and whose business is it anyways how one player plays the game over another?!

Nothing keeps me from PvPing. I just like doing other things in game. When I PvP Ill go and do it but its rare that I want to most cases as Im too busy with the economic aspects to the game. I find them fun, immersive and challenging. I love the analyzing, studying, understanding of market movements, Eve wide leading and lagging indicators, changes, buffs, nerfs that will affect market movements as well as integration of supply chains from primary production all the way to end manufacturing. Exploiting these or finding value within each is a huge factor of the game play that is Eve. I used to have my Mutual Fund license years ago and was in the stock world for a while. The fundamental markets and how they work remind me of that time and the skills and training I can reuse in Eve.

So truly I dont mind PvP at all, but by the time I get done doing all of the above I just dont find time to strap on a ship and go blow people up. Besides I was heavily into sports, at the end combat sports; jujitsu and boxing, and so if I wanted a fight Id go spar in real life with people or get muddy and bloody on some field somewhere. So the need to "fight" for the sake of fighting was very much taken care of by real world aspects.

So thats really why I dont PvP much.

I had this whole retort for stupid replies to my posts, but why waste the time on children?

If you want to PvP, you can. Excuses are like, well you know. You may just die a bunch for quite some time, or more likely not even get a fight that isn't an arranged duel. It's expensive and if you can't see why it's worth it to do- then it's simply not for you.
Like most MMO's people don't even want to 'play' Eve, just be told how to win by someone that already has. That is why these forums are full of 'what is the best ship/fitting for....." or 'What skills should I train now?" and of course all the EFT combat around here.


Here are things you need to know to PvP, learn them on your own while you skill up a bit. If you haven't bothered to learn a few basic things like these before you go looking to fleet up for PvP, you're not really interested in PvP, just a tourist wanting to whore a KM.
There is a homework required for this diploma, kids. It's not 'pop into a PvP fleet and get a running instructional course by the FC'. I made sure to learn this stuff and give it some practice before applying to a PvP corp. Lessons usually learned with lost ships.

1) Learn your D Scan like a big boy. Every roaming fleet needs a scout / tackler and new guy, it's the perfect job for you. Small, low sig frigates until you can fly Ceptors, at which point your FC will bear your children for volunteering to scout. Anyone that has fantasies of solo PvP is going to live and die by the D-Scan, so learn it, love it, live it.
Nothing should ever land on you that you didn't see coming unless it has a cloak.

Practice it in high sec. Bounce around using the D-Scan to track down miners and plexers. Don't attack them, of course- but it's how you learn to do it, not deep in null sec with 20% structure and your FC is dead.

2) Manual Piloting. The difference between a PvP'er and a tourist. Approach, orbit, and keep at, become dusty buttons once you start fighting people and not just AI bots. It's especially true in really high speed brawling combat at knife-fight distances like you'll see in small hulls like frigates. Big lumbering BC's, not so much.
It is often the difference between life and death.

Practice this against belt rats. Don't shoot them, and they're not much threat to even a total newb- just practice setting your orbit to meet your max speed with and without prop mods on. Practice using manual piloting to keep rats inside your weapon or web/scram range and to disengage suddenly to GTFO. Warp in and out to practice keeping up transversal while approaching to attack range.

3) Countdowns. Timers are everything in PvP. Read the glut of info on aggression, GCC, redock, and what it all means. These timers are weapons themselves when properly wielded, and embarrassing to get wrong. Easily overlooked in the heat of battle (or fleeing for one's life), having a grasp of countdown timers is fundamental to PvP.

4) Comms. This one baffles me. The hardest part of any MMO is the simple act of getting people to speak aloud to other human beings.
Get on comms. Be a human, you can still stay in your mom's basement- but at least USE YOUR WORDS, man!
I gave up on knowing anything more about computers than how to DL then double click on it- and TeamSpeak, Ventrillo, and Mumble all worked for me immediately.
Comms are great just for giggles. I've fleeted with everyone from Russians to a Rasta dude form the Islands. Drunk is a virtue in any good fleet.
Find a good bunch of guys and I promise you'll come for the fleets but stay for the comms!

5) The ships, what they usually shoot and what you should shoot at them. This one just takes time and some memory. Especially to solo- you need to know what you can, and cannot take on. You may change ammo and optimal ranges on the fly, may get jumped by the unexpected- the FC can't do that for every fleet member, so KNOW IT ON YOUR OWN.
It changes with every patch too, so keep up on devblogs.

That's just a start, but you should have this sort of stuff down already if you're talking about PvP in Eve.

It's all stuff you can do in total safety before venturing out. Missions are supposed to be the primer for PvP, but it's usually not worth it to try to use missions for practicing specific tactics. Belt rats are quicker and easier to find.

Also- while SP isn't the be-all and end-all of PvP, it is rather skill intensive compared to raping roids. So at some point you need to either invest seriously in many skills to at least IV and several to V- or be content with being a mediocre combat character and losing more than winning.
Again- it's not a broken game when you don't constantly just win at something you dabble at. I certainly can't compete at mining or refining or manufacturing with my lack of skills- I just don't expect that I should be able to 'beat' market mavens just because I wanted to play at being industrial. Be realistic.

I'll happily share any tip that helps get people to PvP. Care bears are insufferable and the more of them we get to grow some teeth, the more interesting Eve will be. To get a bear to quit...just freaking QUIT being one..and become a useful- armed- member of society out in low sec, is really doing god's work.

You can thank me later.

and then you go to do just that O.o




Wanna hear the funny bit? I was evacuating stuff out of an alliance that wont be much longer. The funny bit is that I left the alliance, but its all good; they practice NRDS so even tho I was neut I got through upwards of 20 jumps of their space in that hulk. I even bounced off a gatecamp they set up but didnt keep going lol

peeps are missing out. you go pvp in eve you will get a rush. i remember when i first started my hands were shaking hahahaha. yeah you may lose but so can the other guy. you want to learn pew pew? convo me or join -BS- Public channel

@ alaric

Dude, u did read SOME of things writen in this thread before posting, did u?

PvP ers, relax - noone is going to change game mechanics because some ppl who lost ships whine on forums and DEMAND game mechanics to be changed..

I mean.. Yeah right.. CCP is not even reading such stuff..

1. Lack of funds
1a. High clone costs.
1b. Ship replacement costs (I'm terrible at PVP so die a lot)

2. The limit on how often you can jump clone. I like to be able to do a mix of PvE or PvP but tend to find myself having to choose one at a time because of the time limit and the fact that I don't play all that often.

3. Dealing with nullsec blob mentalities. Seriously, there are some disturbed people that play this game. There are also people that (1) take this game way too seriously; and (2) use it to fulfill their god complexes.

actually i think most players dont think about pvping because, it isnt like the old days anymore where you can have a honourable match 1 vrs 1 now a days if you engage 96% of the time their going to call there buddys in.