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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Command chaining
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Pidgeon Saissore
Tyrant's
#1 - 2012-06-17 05:04:03 UTC
There are a nuber of functions that could be made continuous to a new target but the control does not currently exist that does so. Since you cannot select the next target for a module until the cycle is completed and your computer recieves that it has done so the effects of latency are multiplied. The functionality of the buttons could be slightly altered to correct this. If a new target is selected the module would continue its operation on it's current target until it becomes invalid and then immediately start its next cycle on the new target. If the current target or no target is selected it would stop its function as it currently does. To make it switch targets immediately while the current one is still valid simply double click the button or hotkey.

This functional idea exist for the sole purpose of compensating for latency since at present the time between a modules cycle ending and the time your computer recieves it is wasted. Also then there is still the time for your command to return to the server. After you see the cycle finish. With that in mind you will notice that when engaging multiple targets your ship is idle for an unacceptable ammount of time. By letting you set the next target before your cycle and/or target is finished it an completely eliminate that delay.

Also the same principle applies to starting your targeting while in warp or in exceeding your maximum targets. If you set it to start locking while you are for whatever reason incapable of it it would start the lock the instant you are able to do so again. Also it would put your targets in the order you innitiate the lock and not the oder in which the lock finishes. Also if you are targeting both friend and foe it can cause some confusion so it would seperate fleet members from hostiles in the lock bar.



On an entirely seperate but similar note there are certain patterns of functions that you will always do. (If you comment on this make sure you note it is eperate from my first idea)

For instance when launching scan probes I always:
align to an object
activate microwarpdrive
launch probes one center and one 2 au each up down left right forward and back
activate cloak
scan at 4 au

Also when collecting planetary material
warp to customs office
drop all raw materials that are used on that planet
Scoop everything that is made on that planet
warp back to base
stop and install the extractor program

These are only my personal examples. To configure your own chain command you would have to do it once yourself very precisely after setting it to record your commands. Also there would be a primary object you select after the set is recorded. The primary object would be the one thing that varies in your set. For my examples it would be the object I align to and the planet I collect from. There are a number of commands that are not shown but are obvious that they must be done to achieve the intended purpose. The full list of commands for my planetary collection example would look something like this:

Warp to customs office
Open cargo, Access customs office
Move item stack (designated at the time of the creation of the planet) from cargo to customs office
Move item stack from launchpad to customs office
Move item stack from customs office to launchpad
Move item stack from customs office to cargo
Warp to corperate hangar/station
View in planet mode
open extractor
Survey, stop program, install program, submit


There may be some variation in that if the comodities are used in the next planet in my line, though i do not expect that ammount of variation to be availabe to this queue. but normally it doesn't change much. Also the ammount of the comodity that I grab that is used on the planet would be beyond this kind of command chain.

If implemented there would be a number of short preset queues that you can implement. They would be added to the right click dropdown menu for the relevant objects. In my examples it would be on planets for the case of launch probes or the planet in my industry menu for my planet collection. In reference to my planet collection there would be a list of all things produced and used on each planet and more improtantly a seperate list of what is used but not produced.
Donna Blitzenn
Comprehensive Logistics And Warfare Supply
#2 - 2012-06-17 11:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Donna Blitzenn
If I understand it correctly, one part of your suggestion is:

Allow a module that is currently being 'deactivated' to have a new target assigned to it before the cycle ends, instead of forcing you to wait until the cycle ends and the module is inactive. This would not in any way reduce the cycle time of the module. It would simply wait for the current cycle to end, and then begin its next cycle, at the proper time, but on the new target instead of the old one.

The player would do this by simply having the desired target selected and clicking the module or pressing the associated key to reactivate it, exactly like you would normally do if it was inactive.

The colored glow would change to red when the module is set to deactivate, and then could simply turn back to green once the new target was assigned. If the reactivation was in error, it could simply be clicked a third time to set it back to 'deactivating' once again without activating on the selected target (assuming it had not begun a new cycle before that third click).

If this is correct: I fully support this proposal. I've wanted to be able to do this for ages, especially as a logistics pilot. (Those seconds, or even fractions of them, where my reps are idle are that many more seconds where a new friendly is taking damage that isn't getting fixed up.)

I also agree with the idea of toggling an 'attempting to lock on' state which would begin locking on to a target as soon as it became a valid target. It could put a non-animated version of the existing 'target locking' effect on such targets and not start playing sound so that you can easily distinguish them from targets which are now valid and your ship has begun establishing a target lock. It would be of great help on warp-in to a site to get cap chain up, or if unfriendly sorts began warping onto grid.

To make it easy to keep the locked targets UI sorted in the order that you clicked on the targets, it should show some sort of animated placeholder in that target slot, with the target's name, and allow you to use the existing 'unlock target' shortcuts to cancel the locking-on process.

Not sure what could be done about separating friendlies from enemies - ships are ships, and EVE doesn't know what you plan to do to the targets you're locking on to. But having the placeholders appear in targeting order should help with that too.

I'm not going to comment on the second set of suggestions, other than to say I have no idea how the game could be set up to do all of that the way you want - some of those actions in your examples are pretty complex. What may seem intuitive to a person can be a very tough problem for a computer.
Pidgeon Saissore
Tyrant's
#3 - 2012-06-18 06:14:54 UTC
Ok so my second idea here is probably beyond what can be implemented though I would still like to see repetative things accomplished with less clicking. For instance on planetary there be a few master buttons that I would like to see. If these buttons could be configurable it would fufill my intended sugestion fully.
For instance:
resert all extractor programs: simply put stop and reinstall every extractor program you have on all planets without going into the planet view on any.
Transfer all preset products between launchpad and customs office: at any time this can be configured as to which items are moved in which direction.
scoop/drop and return: simply put it would warp you to the customs office drop any product you predetermine for that one and scoop a different predetermined product and then return to your predetermined base.

Essentially each of these links a sieries of commands together that you set beforehand.

I also see a number of things for other purposes that could be configured

When mining set it to jetison your ore or put it in a nearby corperate hangar

To steal something and immediately warp off. You would have to configure this command to an object to warp to prior to attempting it. I it would then loot all and warp without confirmation or even looking inside the container. A more complicated version would set an align path that takes it within reach so that the warp is instant. Also a counter to this if you have them targeted and a warp disupter it would point them the instant they go hostile.

When dropping things in a hangar with containers sort the items to the relvant containers. At any time if you attempt this with unassigned items it would ask you to assign them.
Pidgeon Saissore
Tyrant's
#4 - 2012-06-18 06:51:43 UTC
I have an idea of what the configuration of master buttons control would behave like. When making it you would set commands to do actions as normal. When you complete your sieries of actions you would then see the whole list of them. In this list you would set which of them are the variable and fixed points of it. A fixed point would do the same action regardless of what your target is. For instance warp to a saved loation at your control tower or drop an item in your hangar. A variable one would be linked to what you set the new command to. There would also be specific actions to a variable target and general ones. For the case of my planetary line a specific one would be what products are moved from that specific customs office while a general one would simply be scoop all. There would be a limited number of specific variable actions to be done for each command as these would likely only be made for certain objects in a home system.

A planet setting would that I would make would look like this.
Variable planet
specific variable (item that planet uses)
Take (number of that item) form corperate hangar (fixed)
warp to customs office of variable planet
drop item in customs office
move (specific item 2) from launchpad to customs office
move item 1 to launchpad and item 2 to cargo
warp to corperate hangar
drop item 2 in corperate hangar

what I say as an item here might be any number of different items. As you can see you would have to configure each planet to use a certain set of items though the action is the same. You would be returning to the same corperate hangar regardless of what planet you did our action on.

An example of a general one would be

Variable orca pilot
warp to orca
take all items from corperate hangar tab
warp to corperate hangar array(fixed)
drop all items in hangar tab
Pidgeon Saissore
Tyrant's
#5 - 2012-06-18 06:54:24 UTC
I would make it clear that I am not asking for a bot. These are a single set of non repeating commands associated with a single button that you create.
Varg Krugar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-06-18 14:05:11 UTC
i'm totally for command queuing. select an active module, click it once so it turns red while the cycle finishes, select a target (maybe even the old one), click the module again to queue up a module activation versus the new target and have it turn yellow in the UI. module will activate vs. the new target as soon as it can. if you click a yellow module while it still is in queue up mode, you deactivate it and it turns red

Pidgeon Saissore wrote:
I would make it clear that I am not asking for a bot. These are a single set of non repeating commands associated with a single button that you create.

but macros of any sort make botting easier, which is why this will probably not be considered.

on a related note: i would very much like to be able to save the relative positioning of probes as a preset. launch a number of probes, select "scanning pattern theta" from a probe positioning preset menu and have them move (well, not actually move until you press "analyze") to whatever my preferred setup for that set of probes is. a feature like that would remove one of the bigger clickfests from my day-to-day eve life.
Pidgeon Saissore
Tyrant's
#7 - 2012-07-12 04:47:02 UTC
Varg Krugar wrote:

but macros of any sort make botting easier, which is why this will probably not be considered.

I would disagree with this since bots are likely intended to be the macro instead of use them. There is nothing I am sugesting that woulden't easily be part of a bot. Setting this up wouldn't change much as the exact code made here would otherwise be written into the bot.
Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-07-12 05:48:15 UTC
So you want that the feature base that CCP has always tried to avoid most: Automation in the game.

You can feel lucky that we can pre-activate modules before a lock is established. I'd rather you use a bot and get banned, than to give us terribad ideas.

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