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Destruction Testing the New Wardec System (Ganks Included - Free wardec inside)

First post
Author
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#361 - 2012-07-09 14:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
***

Anyway. Today is the day the 1.1 Wardec Changes finally hit. And all our allies have now been cleared away by Concord/CCP intervention so its time to take stock and have a look at the results of the war.

For the 5 week duration we've seen a general advantage for the heroic anti Goon fighters who have scored 166 kills against the most numerous alliance in New Eden while suffering 29 kills in exchange. Total value in isk destroyed by the defensive coalition as of this afternoon is 15,043,705.507 isk. Total value inflicted by the space fascists is 2,439,068,838. This marks the end of the formal Inferno war as CCP game changes have now priced effective defensive coalitions out of the market.

As promised I've contracted a Tempest Fleet Issue battleship to the most successful defensive ally (Freight Club) which can be picked up by their Naga pilot Snarkki.

Thanks very much Freight Club - I hope you go shooting bloated imperialists somewhere and somehow in New Eden.

***

I note from a quick scan of the war marketplace this afternoon that Goonswarm has shed/evaded around 150 wars for free from this 1.1 change (probably the most bald-faced case of wardec evasion in the history of Eve Online) and will now presumably be able to return to the original mission of the "ministry of love" initiative in griefing the Mittani's greatest foes from the game. Perhaps now their numerical advantage is re-confirmed as 9000 to 70 they will be able to muster the courage to stay on grid with me long enough for the torpedoes to arm!

Going forwards we in Star Fraction will be happy to allow one free ally into the fight (will generally choose the largest and most active trade hub raiding entity) - others interested in fighting Goonswarm for their own reasons are free to propose assistence and we'll allow the joining for 2 week period in exchange for the concord fees charged. A conversation needs to be opened so you can get an accurate quote. Currently this is on a scale:

10
20
40
80
160
320
640

So for the first 8 defensive allies it will still be cheaper to pay us isk (which we then pay to concord on your behalf) rather than wardeccing directly. I'm not particularly convinced this is a compelling mechanic (the 2 week enforced limitation is very annoying) but the option is on the table if people want to take it.

***

Anyway there it is.

Destruction Test of the Inferno 1.0 wardec system is concluded. It quite effectively destroyed Mittani's pride for a few weeks while ultimately CCP destroyed the mechanic with the deeply unpopular 1.1 clause. For the future large alliances can breathe a sigh of relief and go back to griefing their targets without large scale practical countermeasures.

But we pay a moment's respect for the Inferno 1.0 patch and its short but glorious life. For a little while Eve Online wasn't entirely dominated by moon-wealth-glutted fat-cats in their sovereign fortresses and like a sweet Saturnalia of carnage the brutalized stars sent their heroic sons and daughters to tear down the aristocracy from their golden chariots and beat them soundly to the common mud beneath all our feet. It was beautiful.

So a toast to the dead in cups made of the hollowed skulls of goon-freighter pilots!

Farewell Inferno 1.0

Star Fraction coalition 1
Goonswarm Federation 0

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2012-07-09 16:03:24 UTC
So many words in salute of inferno 1.0, the wardec mechanism release which would've caused more or less every wardec to be made mutual and get dogpiled into by every jita camping corp/alliance forever, for free, making the act of trying to wardec someone to f.ex take out a hisec POS an impossibility for anyone other than the bigger boys.

Good thing CCP ignored Jade's whining and trips to mount tinfoil, and made some much needed changes to close the loophope which was so readily available to everyone.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#363 - 2012-07-09 16:50:56 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
So many words in salute of inferno 1.0, the wardec mechanism release which would've caused more or less every wardec to be made mutual and get dogpiled into by every jita camping corp/alliance forever, for free, making the act of trying to wardec someone to f.ex take out a hisec POS an impossibility for anyone other than the bigger boys. Good thing CCP ignored Jade's whining and trips to mount tinfoil, and made some much needed changes to close the loophope which was so readily available to everyone.


What CCP ignored was good player community suggestions to properly reform 1.0 resolving issues with permanent lock-ins and dogpiles on smaller aggressors to produce a competitive wardec system. Instead they rush-deployed a half-finished back of a beermat 1.1 patch in response to goon (and test) whining. But then you know this and you've been beaten around the head by hundreds of independent posters over the last few weeks trying to get the message through your skull - but perhaps unsurprisingly you as a agent of the largest and fattest alliance in the game didn't really want to hear about losing your advantage.

"turkey's vote against Christmas - more news at 11"


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#364 - 2012-07-09 16:55:50 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
in response to goon (and test) whining.

This is a baldfaced lie which has been refuted, repeatedly, by CCP, the CSM and us.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#365 - 2012-07-09 17:03:16 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
in response to goon (and test) whining.

This is a baldfaced lie which has been refuted, repeatedly, by CCP, the CSM and us.


And I say you lie. And so it continues ad infinitum - on this issue CCP and CSM have very little credibility whatsoever and goons - as I said "turkeys voting against christmas - more news at 11".

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2012-07-09 17:06:17 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
in response to goon (and test) whining.

This is a baldfaced lie which has been refuted, repeatedly, by CCP, the CSM and us.


And I say you lie. And so it continues ad infinitum - on this issue CCP and CSM have very little credibility whatsoever and goons - as I said "turkeys voting against christmas - more news at 11".

So you're still travelling to mount tinfoil and trying to claim that CCP, the CSM etc are still trying to cover up some deep conspiracy where we've made CCP make changes to spite you?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#367 - 2012-07-09 17:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Lord Zim wrote:
So you're still travelling to mount tinfoil and trying to claim that CCP, the CSM etc are still trying to cover up some deep conspiracy where we've made CCP make changes to spite you?


The only reality here is that CCP have made changes to the game that specifically benefit the largest, loudest and best-connected alliance in the game to the detriment of all smaller corporations, alliances and independent players wishing to fight back.

But in the words of the famous prophetic singer Leonard Cohen on what the conspiracy is?

Well everybody knows

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#368 - 2012-07-09 17:26:11 UTC
Let me just remind you of something:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1457284#post1457284
CCP Goliath wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding the war dec system changes being some goonswarm conspiracy - all of these changes were decided (and most implemented) long before this particular goonswarm war even started. Do you really think we add new stuff a few days before a release just because of one war?


The Honda Accord wardec has been running for several weeks longer and has created the same precedent.

CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding defenders now being defenseless, etc. This change will make it a little bit more difficult to defend, but what we have to do is strike a balance between defender options and incentives to declare war. We can give defenders all kinds of shiny new tools to defend themselves, but if they result in nobody declaring war anymore, then why bother? Yes, we want the system as a whole to have more consequences, but that cuts both ways.


What you have done is completely remove consequences from the largest entities in Eve. You have made it utterly impractical to add enough allies into a war to discomfort a very large alliance and made it impossible to lock such an alliance into a war so they are forced to consider surrender.

And the thing is - who was complaining about the way this was working? Certainly not the hundreds of small corporations getting to try empire war against large territorial alliances for the first time. The only people complaining were ... well, Goonswarm really.

I don't think you have given the Inferno wardec system long enough in the wild to make any kind of rational assessments of how it is working in practise. And this rapid near-complete nerfing of the ally system does sound like a developer batphone being picked up and whined into.

These are changes purely to the benefit of the largest most powerful and best connected alliances in Eve and to the huge detriment of the smaller entities.

You have to acknowledge this stinks like a container of rotten fish in a cesspit.


Not only do I not acknowledge it, I have and will continue to actively refute it. I want this thread to be relevant to teams collecting *valid* feedback on their features and so hereforth will be deleting any half baked conspiracy theories.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1457292#post1457292
Two step wrote:
Come on Jade, being able to lock allies into mutual wars is clearly a really bad idea. Right now, I could form two alt corps, have them wardec each other, and then grab a bunch of free allies or even paid mercs, make the war mutual and never let them out. This is a bad thing, and these changes go a long way towards fixing that problem.

Limits on allies are not just about Goons, why would *any* corp wardec anyone else right now? If you do so, you are subjecting yourself to a possibly unlimtied number of allies. You talk about 9000 vs 100, but what about a 20 vs 20 wardec. Right now, the defender can pull in many hundreds or even thousands of allies, and there is no way a small corp would be able to deal with that.


Since you're insisting on claiming that this whole deal is a goon-led conspiracy, either you or they are lying. Are you saying CCP and the CSM are lying?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#369 - 2012-07-09 17:32:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
As I said, CCP and CSM have very little credibility on this issue. The quotes you provide above simply reveal Soniclover evading the argument with some off topic bluster and twostep being dishonest (bearing in mind his podcast some weeks earlier where he specifically talks about his concerns of large alliances being disadvantaged.)

You will not find any support for your propaganda in the old threads.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#370 - 2012-07-09 17:48:10 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
As I said, CCP and CSM have very little credibility on this issue.

This seems like a recurring theme with you. Anyone who doesn't agree with you 100%, have "very little credibility on this issue".

So in other words, you're saying that CCP and the CSM are lying about this.

Jade Constantine wrote:
The quotes you provide above simply reveal Soniclover evading the argument with some off topic bluster and twostep being dishonest (baring in mind his podcast some weeks earlier where he specifically talks about his concerns of large alliances being disadvantaged.)

And the same podcast says exactly the same thing about "reputable merc corps" and "everyone is at war with everyone because everyone brings in everyone else as war allies, and this is kinda stupid and this is not a good system", but it's interesting how you just ignore those annoying little facts.

(Actually, no, it's not interesting so much as "it's expected at this point".)

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#371 - 2012-07-09 17:55:27 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
So in other words, you're saying that CCP and the CSM are lying about this.


Some of the CSM are indeed telling fibs about aspects of this situation. I've been quite blunt in my criticism of the current CSM and I think they have a lot of responsibility for the fiasco to date. What I think about CCP's general handling of the situation is not printable on these forums. Suffice to say the interactions on the threads concerned show the principles in quite an unflattering light.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#372 - 2012-07-09 17:58:25 UTC
So you're not saying CCP is lying, which means that when CCP is emphatically saying the changes are not in response to goonswarm requests, and you are saying it is in response to goonswarm requests, you're lying.

Glad we got that cleared up.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#373 - 2012-07-09 18:09:14 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#374 - 2012-07-09 19:01:29 UTC
Sanity 0
Jade Constantine 1
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#375 - 2012-07-09 19:04:15 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
For a little while Eve Online wasn't entirely dominated by moon-wealth-glutted fat-cats in their sovereign fortresses


That's a lie we didn't stop being fat for one second
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#376 - 2012-07-09 19:05:38 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
in response to goon (and test) whining.

This is a baldfaced lie which has been refuted, repeatedly, by CCP, the CSM and us.


And I say you lie. And so it continues ad infinitum - on this issue CCP and CSM have very little credibility whatsoever and goons - as I said "turkeys voting against christmas - more news at 11".


The only problem with you saying that he, CCP and the CSM are lying ad infinitum (italics) is that you are objectively wrong.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#377 - 2012-07-09 19:09:57 UTC
Careful, he'll tell you "your credibility it at an all-time low" soon if you're going to continue being mean to him like this. :(

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Ndjia Taranda
#378 - 2012-07-09 19:10:50 UTC
I'm worried about my credibility, where in this spectrum do I fall?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#379 - 2012-07-09 19:11:01 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
The only problem with you saying that he, CCP and the CSM are lying ad infinitum (italics) is that you are objectively wrong.


"Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia."

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#380 - 2012-07-09 19:26:19 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Werst Dendenahzees wrote:
The only problem with you saying that he, CCP and the CSM are lying ad infinitum (italics) is that you are objectively wrong.


"Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia."

No, you're not fake wrong or revisionist history wrong, you're plain wrong.