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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#401 - 2012-07-04 18:33:38 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Rees Noturana wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Rees Noturana wrote:
The NeX store pricing fiasco was probably an even bigger reason that WiS stalled out. At least the second round pricing seems in line with expectations.


The team wholeheartedly agree with the cheaper pricing structure. Big smile

Indeed. Although it would be amusing to put out a bi-monocle ( spectacle ) at double the price of the old monocles just for the troll of it.

But seriously, yes, we felt that this kind of pricing made much more sense, and we see it in how the items are selling now, that once the price was brought down and we added interesting designs, people are buying them. We'd like to put out more distinctive stuff, like the full body rubber female suits seen on Singularity, and a full body female leather strap catsuit, both which are important work attire for any serious capsuleer. If the clothes we're putting out now at lower prices sell well, we are very likely to kick off the manufacturing pipeline again, where we were planning to do more exotic ( cyberpunk, pirate etc ) clothes, than the more plain business and military clothes we have now.


For now, just getting the remaining color variations into the market would be cool since they are already done.

+1 for trolling with bionicles.


I have a serious suggestion. With the number of items in the Nex store now, and the prices being all over the place... you need to do a 180 on the Nex design right now.

You shouldn't have to buy the same shirt in different colors. It takes up WAY to much room in the character editor allready. Whats going to happen when there are 100 shirts? each with 5 colors? how will i find anythign to equip with that much junk to buy and sort through in the Nex store?

How have you people not noticed this issue? it's unavoidable. If I buy a Jacket, in black, just let me change the color with a little color tab, like you did with the makeup options. It doesn't have to take up a ton of room. And if you still want to make money off it, sell clothing dyes instead of more shirts.

Or sell them in packs, like pay 5 bucks, get this shirt in every color.

With special Factional warfare colors and such being locked to separate items that have to be bought separate. The point is to have more options with less screen clutter to go through.

OH, and before you forget, I'll personally never buy these Nex items, BUT, i will buy ship paint jobs, I have free AUR from the giveaway still plus I'd sink some money into paintjobs if they lasted forever, and it was more like buying the Skill book to a paint job style, so now that I've done it once, I can do it again.

And if every single paint job texture was sold as a separate ship you had to trade in your current ship for on top of a paint ticket or something stupid, I won't bother to navigate your 9 year old UI design.

Just make it so we pick our ship or clothing item, equip it, and then pick color as easy as mousing over our ship, and clicking any of the color patterns we have bought. Simple. And if you haven't bought it it should have a show info button to see the paint job, and a show in market button. So you can easily find a buy it.

And if you want to be real heros make this stuff take other in game materials to build. Instead of selling ships, sell BPCs for paint jobs and clothing. Make it so they require PI materials, and time to build. That way we the playerbase can set up a real market around them. right now everything is price caped to the price of plex.

Come on CCP, you could knock this one out of the park, if your Nex store had the new cheaper prices, and a functional easy to navigate Store window. If you want to get really slick program the avatar clothing customizing work in the Nex Store window. Disable the face sculpting and stuff, but let us change clothes without taking a new picture of our face. Why do I needto open a new window to change into new pants? Or in future cases, a new ship paint job. Make it like the fitting window? Or any other normal mmo?

A full screen editor is great for making your character, but for equipping new items?

also if you created a proper fitting window for avatars, it would lead nicely into this new on foot exploration game play. You could even include the implants slots into the window where you change your town clothes/combat suit and weapons.

Come on CCP, your a AAA mmo company, I believe you can turn this horrible nightmare that was incarna around. I want to bust some skulls, gamble away planets, watch dust matches, and explore old asteroid mining bases. Make eve into mass effect,DO IT. Show us you can build a polished game, not whatever the Nex store monster is :/

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#402 - 2012-07-04 18:38:24 UTC
would be funny to give each of your clones different clothes. Would ensure that you pvp with the right pants eh imps.
(its probably not impossible to implement and also makes somehow sense thats why i bring this up)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#403 - 2012-07-04 19:00:37 UTC
If i for the sake of argument ignore NeX hatred in me i will say that current options in it remand me of 2012 bland in stuff and not high tech pod pilot gear required for pod goo it self..further more little what i saw that didn't hit nex looks like stuff for vampire lovers or worse not to go in details...

So il stay strongly opposed at any nex garbage until it start to look like it is geared for EVE online and not some demo for you know what.

On a more serious note i was under impression that this thread was about emerging game development and not i wanna dress me like this or that...i guess i was wrong.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#404 - 2012-07-04 19:15:39 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Rees Noturana wrote:
The NeX store pricing fiasco was probably an even bigger reason that WiS stalled out. At least the second round pricing seems in line with expectations.


The team wholeheartedly agree with the cheaper pricing structure. Big smile

Indeed. Although it would be amusing to put out a bi-monocle ( spectacle ) at double the price of the old monocles just for the troll of it.

But seriously, yes, we felt that this kind of pricing made much more sense, and we see it in how the items are selling now, that once the price was brought down and we added interesting designs, people are buying them. We'd like to put out more distinctive stuff, like the full body rubber female suits seen on Singularity, and a full body female leather strap catsuit, both which are important work attire for any serious capsuleer. If the clothes we're putting out now at lower prices sell well, we are very likely to kick off the manufacturing pipeline again, where we were planning to do more exotic ( cyberpunk, pirate etc ) clothes, than the more plain business and military clothes we have now.


Just curious, but, where are all the items that are not in the NEx? Where can they be found? Is there a listing of what has been seeded to where? Also, I think CCP Karkur pointed that some items haven't been seeded yet, and you can bet that my first impression after seeing only 13 new female items in the NEx and nothing else in Jita was less than pleased... will there be more "missing" items for the Nex, or the remaining seeding is gonna be done elsewhere?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Anubis Star
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#405 - 2012-07-04 20:00:25 UTC
i want to walk in station and interact
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#406 - 2012-07-04 21:04:59 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
If i for the sake of argument ignore NeX hatred in me i will say that current options in it remand me of 2012 bland in stuff and not high tech pod pilot gear required for pod goo it self..further more little what i saw that didn't hit nex looks like stuff for vampire lovers or worse not to go in details...

So il stay strongly opposed at any nex garbage until it start to look like it is geared for EVE online and not some demo for you know what.

On a more serious note i was under impression that this thread was about emerging game development and not i wanna dress me like this or that...i guess i was wrong.


Its about both. And how hopefully this new direction of fitting modules to your self high medium and low slots for avatars is very exciting. But right now the current system of how they put stuff up for sale and how much of it there is with every color being a different item. There is even a right/left monocle, why? just sell one and let us put it on either. not that I'd ever.

If they start treating Our avatars like real characters, with slots just like a spaceship. That's very exciting. And hopefully they could then make ship paint jobs and avatar clothing look more like eve did back in 2009. Where are the ammar head dresses? where are the minmatar face masks? I haven't seen any clear head visor things, or the caldari robotic head implants. If they are going to release new Nex items they at least should...

A. Look AWESOME. Any normal looking T-shirts should just be released and added to the normal character creator for free. Released stuff should be elaborate and wroth buying for real money. It's almost insulting what they out for 50$.get the same artists as dust to make the casual clothes for eve.

B.Somehow actually effect something. Let us gear up, the armor we equip should determne how many low medium and high slots we get. With no uber gear, but balanced. Do you want 6 high 2 medium 2 low? Or do you want 4/4/2? 2/4/4? logistics role? Make stuff for eve online that doesn't cost real money. then release special colors of them for real money. Everything you guys make, unless super special should be free and tied to some sort of gameplay. Han solo didn't send all his time in bars.

So give us cool looking eve gear, don't make it cost extra money. then charge, if you must, for paint jobs and special patterns. Just like your about to do for spaceships. No more of this, Nex store or nothing monocle BS. I mean sure have a few super rare special items, but don't make them better than anything we can build in game. Just make them "side grade" or purely just a color difference.

If they start handling eve more like dust, WiS gameplay could in the future become something fun for FiS players.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#407 - 2012-07-04 21:37:24 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
No dedicated experienced explorer is going to enter these sites with the risk of losing their clone, their skill points, their implants, their ship, their loot and end up in a medical clone on the other side of the universe.

So your argument is that WiS explorers should have the rewards without having to accept any of the risks.

Got it.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#408 - 2012-07-04 22:32:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

My statement is not an assumption, it's a fact. My replies are based on viewing the Prototype Demo and comments made by the Devs, along with reading all the replies posted in this thread by die hard PvP fanatics. Most dedicated explorers are highly skilled, use top of the line equipment, have implants installed and use a T3 Cruiser which when destroyed, results in a loss of skillpoints.

NPC's don't attack Pods anywhere so warping out is not a problem when ship is destroyed. A player can also warp their Pod out after their ship is destroyed by other players unless they are surprised, panic or fumble around with the controls. If they remain calm, then a Pod loss is due to being warp scrammed or smart bombed by the aggressors.

I already explained how making it a group based content will cut out a lot of people being able to engage in this activity. Incursions is is based on group activity with Logistics support. High level sleeper sites are usually done by multiple members belonging to the same player corp, again usually supported by Logistics as well. In both cases they aren't looking to kill each other.

Having group activity in these new Avatar sites is fine, but the constant demand to focus on the ability to 'Knife' another Avatar in the back is simply more grief play, nothing more. There's already plenty of that in this game. How about having Avatar game play focus more on the other side of the coin, such as support with Logistics? That's a very big aspect of this game which is greatly overlooked.

I already posted how the sites could work via the different security sectors in Eve. I'll expand on it some more.

The main focus should be a race to get the loot supported by Logistics team work. Ships dock in the site which gives no indication that it's occupied. Capsuleers use Drone Clones (represented by their Avatars when active) that are stowed in their Cargohold which are launched after docking. If the Drone Clone dies, the player respawns back in their ship where they can either launch another available Drone Clone or they undock from the site to get more Drone Clones. When site is completed, it despawns.

High sec - up to 3 players per group, 3 groups allowed. If you initiate Avatar PvP action within the site, you incur GCC timer with large security status hit. Site has strong interior weapons (Concord) that kills aggressor. The site can not be destroyed.

Low sec - up to 6 players per group, 6 groups allowed. If you initiate Avatar PvP action within the site, you incur GCC timer with small security status hit. Site has weak interior weapons that open fire on aggressor while GCC is active. The site can not be destroyed.

Null sec - up to 8 players per group, 8 groups allowed. You can initiate Avatar PvP action within the site. Site has no interior weapons. The site can be destroyed.

I'd elaborate more but I'm tired now.


I don't really disagree with what you said there, as long as your not saying that sites should be specifically designed for solo player. However, i have no problem in the avatar environments containing mechanics that support the inexperienced/solo players.

I have been playing for a while now and on the odd occasion i leave w-space and run exploration sites in HS, i find that the competition for the sites is less about skill and more about knowing what spawns to kill to blitz the site.

Here's how i would do it

A capsuleer scans an exploration site down and warps to it. He then docks with the structure in his ship of choice (even a shutte) and he can either send in a drone clone or go in himself.

Once in the structure he has the option to hack a computer terminal (if he has the skill) which can do multiple things including :

  • Online internal defences (to protect against illegal activity)
  • Download data (data cores)
  • Prevent access to the site for other for a limited time (can only be done once per site and would have a short timer for say, 3 minutes)



    • Once done with the initial terminal you continue through the site finding artifacts and such...

    If another player arrives at the site he can either enter the site or destroy the structure.

  • The structure should have a large amout of hit points
  • If the structure is attacked while a player is inside, the player inside gets kill rights on the agressor.
  • when the structure is attacked alarms sound and walls shake/break appart.
  • Once the structures hit points are gone it goes into a reinforced mode for 30 seconds or one minutes (time for players inside to escape)

    • The explorer would have several options when for his escape:

  • Return to his ship with the loot
  • Return to the ship without the loot for a faster escape
  • Use the structures escape pod and leave the loot and the ship behind
  • Die a fiery death.


    • Disclaimer - not saying that this is how it should be or that this is the best idea but i think something like this could work

    The wishlist is pretty much complete...
    Lapine Davion
    Outer Ring Applied Logistics
    #409 - 2012-07-04 23:17:12 UTC
    Rees Noturana wrote:
    The NeX store pricing fiasco was probably an even bigger reason that WiS stalled out. At least the second round pricing seems in line with expectations.


    The failure of Incarna was a serious of failures.


    • The Insane pricing structure of the Nex coupled with the single player environment of CQ. It was basically horse armor for eve.
    • The milions of dollars and years of development given to what we were promised was going to be an incredible multiplayer, multi-avatar station bound experience that just turned out to be a crappy studio apartment requiring a lifetime supply of tetanus shots.
    • The threat of "Gold Ammo" being whipped up by alarmists.
    • And then also the promise of yet more development time being taken away from a core component of the eve experience (spaceships) in favor of the incredibly underwhelming CQ.


    Any two of these would have made Incarna just another lackluster expansion, but the combination of all of these factors made it the most disasterous expansion to the game ever released, *maybe* with the exception of boot.ini.

    But what separates this from the boot.ini fiasco is the fact that Incarna was released as intended (minus the performance issues), whereas boot.ini was just a really unfortunate bug. (I hope)

    [b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
    Vincent Athena
    Photosynth
    #410 - 2012-07-04 23:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
    CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
    ......

    But seriously, yes, we felt that this kind of pricing made much more sense, and we see it in how the items are selling now, that once the price was brought down and we added interesting designs, people are buying them. We'd like to put out more distinctive stuff, like the full body rubber female suits seen on Singularity, and a full body female leather strap catsuit, both which are important work attire for any serious capsuleer. If the clothes we're putting out now at lower prices sell well, we are very likely to kick off the manufacturing pipeline again, where we were planning to do more exotic ( cyberpunk, pirate etc ) clothes, than the more plain business and military clothes we have now.


    Maybe you could sneak some charts on Nex store sales into the dev blog please?

    Edit: Also, do not forget just casual clothes. I still want my Gallente robe/toga back.

    Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

    Frozen fanfiction
    Wu-Tian
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #411 - 2012-07-04 23:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Wu-Tian
    Pix Severus wrote:
    Is anyone else as disappointed as I am about how the whole Incarna/WalkinginStations thing turned out?

    I left the game for a while after Tyrannis was released and came back to Eve recently (a couple of weeks ago). I was looking forward to going for a stroll in a station or two, spamming /dance, playing some games, hitting up the bar staff, etc. Instead I find I'm stuck in a small room, forever alone.

    A new player to the game would question: "Why such an involved 3D character creation process when there's nothing in-game to actually DO with said creation?" This was an issue before Incarna with the old character creation process too, going through it all just to snap a portrait.. Well, what we have now is just a 3D, movable portrait.

    Anyway, I did some digging to find out why it ended up this way, and it turned out that a bunch of players had a hissy-fit when Incarna was released, which forced CCP to take a different direction, thus leaving the whole thing as an unfinished mess. How unfortunate. Maybe now that the whole thing has calmed down somewhat, it is time to finish it? Get WiS rolled out fully, the code is probably there, waiting, I don't know if you figured out how to handle choke-points like certain Jita stations, but I (and I'm sure many others) would love the extra functionality for our 3D characters, especially those who spend all day playing the market.


    Don't worry, CCP will expand incarna/WIS in the next 2-3 years. That was the plan back in nov. 2011.

    Hilmar Veigar Petursson, CEO,CCP Game
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV9pr-wEFl0&feature=player_detailpage#t=512s

    Patience is a virtue.

    edit: maybe it will take some more time... Just found out that CCP will shift focus to exploration with avatars. We'll see.
    oldbutfeelingyoung
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #412 - 2012-07-05 00:30:00 UTC
    CCP Bayesian wrote:
    It's great to see everyone debating how these sites would fit into EVE. I'd like to take a moment to reiterate that our focus was on the minute-by-minute gameplay rather than looking at the idea holistically. We wanted to make sure there was some fun gameplay to come out of the concept before we started deep diving in how it might be integrated into EVE proper, which is a question worthy of serious consideration.

    Lots of people are off making assumptions about how the gameplay would fit into EVE as if it were decided and implementation was already in progress! We've definitely talked about this subject within Team Avatar and with others in the company in much the same fashion you guys are here but there is nothing set in stone. There are a lot of ways this could work that complement what exists already.

    The dev blog is about the prototyping so there isn't really any discussion of social spaces in it at all. As far as I'm concerned they are a no brainer for inclusion, particularly as the tools and technology that would be developed to create gameplay get you 90% of the way towards creating a social space. As with the more active gameplay this is stuff we should be getting into the hands of the players early when we actually get greenlit.



    I guess that the wish for true Wis/Ambulation is still big

    I wonder if CCP ever expected this ,after Incarna

    R.S.I2014
    Russell Casey
    Doomheim
    #413 - 2012-07-05 00:33:30 UTC
    I subbed for Incarna too, though mostly just for entertainment. IMO there was no one thing that caused so much rage as there was several different factors coupled with CCP having its priorities mixed up leading to Incarna being such a powder-keg. WiS was never unpopular, just poorly implemented with a bunch of other random crap happening that the playerbase felt was more important.

    People were excited about WiS when the idea was about players actually mingling and chatting with one another in stations. Instead, we got a single room to shamble around in and sit on a couch. This came after a long, graphics-card straining load time without no way to turn off, with very little spaceship related content otherwise.

    And THEN came the Fear-less leak with rumors about Aurum being used to buy special ships, mods, ammo etc. ala pay-to-win, to say nothing of the stories about Incarna being an alpha test for World of Darkness.

    Finally there was still no attempt at adjusting the supercarrier blobs overrunning null after years of the community pointing out the imbalance. EVE players basically felt snubbed and taken advantage of, and while major developers like Blizzard and EA might not have given two ***** about reaction to one game, EVE is pretty much all CCP has.

    So they're playing nice and working to stay on the playerbase's good side for now, which means putting WiS on the back burner, perhaps indefinitely (at least until they straighten out faction warfare and high/nullsec).
    Irya Boone
    The Scope
    #414 - 2012-07-05 08:58:26 UTC
    no no they have to make it come true as soon as possible , and No don't make the sites become Some stupid BG 6vs6 etc etc

    The sites Must be an open space you come in , you don't know if you're alone , if there is Npc left in it , or other player .. etc etc

    Thaht should be that Way ,

    CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

    you shall all bow and pray BoB
    Malcanis
    Vanishing Point.
    The Initiative.
    #415 - 2012-07-05 09:04:42 UTC
    Scatim Helicon wrote:
    DeMichael Crimson wrote:
    No dedicated experienced explorer is going to enter these sites with the risk of losing their clone, their skill points, their implants, their ship, their loot and end up in a medical clone on the other side of the universe.

    So your argument is that WiS explorers should have the rewards without having to accept any of the risks.

    Got it.



    Please don't mischaracterise his arguments. He only thinks that hi-sec explorers should get rewards without risk.

    "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

    Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
    Mechael
    Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
    #416 - 2012-07-05 09:50:54 UTC
    It was more about how terrible microtransactions in a sandbox sci-fi scimulator are. That was the initial outrage, anyway. Eventually it turned into "WiS" vs "FiS" which doesn't make any damned sense.

    I would like to see Aurum removed from the game. I would also like to see ambulation ... sorry, Incarna ... as it was originally intended.

    Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
    Samuella IV
    #417 - 2012-07-05 10:46:16 UTC
    Very disappointed.
    Cedric deBouilard
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #418 - 2012-07-05 11:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Cedric deBouilard
    CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
    We'd like to put out more distinctive stuff, like the full body rubber female suits seen on Singularity, and a full body female leather strap catsuit, both which are important work attire for any serious capsuleer.


    Now shut up and take my money!
    Crimson Midnight
    Commando Guri
    Guristas Pirates
    #419 - 2012-07-05 11:21:08 UTC
    CCP RedDawn wrote:
    Commissar Kate wrote:
    Speaking of the NeX store and Incarna.

    When are you guys gonna fix the underwear bug that has been in game since the Incarna expansion. I'd like to use some of the new stuff in the NeX store but until the bug is fixed my character will just look silly. http://i.imgur.com/pVHaf.png





    Yup, we have known of this bra defect for a long, long time. Unfortunately it's just been a matter of prioritisation.
    To be honest most of our defect fixes have suffered due to our prototyping efforts but i'll raise this one up again and push for a fix.


    Strange, that's very different to my bra defect.
    Lexmana
    #420 - 2012-07-05 11:23:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
    DeMichael Crimson wrote:

    High sec - up to 3 players per group, 3 groups allowed. If you initiate Avatar PvP action within the site, you incur GCC timer with large security status hit. Site has strong interior weapons (Concord) that kills aggressor. The site can not be destroyed.

    Low sec - up to 6 players per group, 6 groups allowed. If you initiate Avatar PvP action within the site, you incur GCC timer with small security status hit. Site has weak interior weapons that open fire on aggressor while GCC is active. The site can not be destroyed.

    Null sec - up to 8 players per group, 8 groups allowed. You can initiate Avatar PvP action within the site. Site has no interior weapons. The site can be destroyed.


    Do you also want a dungeon finder?