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New dev blog: Inferno 1.1 Changes To the War Dec System

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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#541 - 2012-06-29 14:57:52 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Thats social consequences for you Richard Desturned. If you are in an unpopular organization making wardecs is supposed to be a risky business. At least that was the stated intent of the 1.0 devblog. But 1.1 removes social consequences from the largest alliances in the game by rendering the scale of defensive allying null by introduction of a ridiculous exponential cost multiplier. At the edge case of 9000 vs 100 then nobody is going to be selective - you need to at a couple of hundred allies before you are even close to parity in on the books numbers.

If CCP were to go on record with the admission it can't balance competitive game mechanics where the largest entities of the game are concerned then :shrug: really - thats would be a pretty damning admission.


no, humor me, how much have corps like "Sons of Michael," "The Blacklist LTd," "Spontaneous Castigation," "Tremendous Fail Inc.," "Dukes of Noobs," "C.I.A. NRDS," "We help Noobs" and the other one-man tax dodging corps in your "alliance" contributed, compared to, say, Moar Tears and Double Tap? I mean you could literally boil down your entire "defense" to 3 groups and you'd still have all of those random Ibises and Badgers to brag about killing.

oh btw a bunch of the corps in your "defense" are closed, lol

edit: seriously when you can have 6 "quality" allies for the less than the price of a t2 fit battleship every other week i don't see why you're complaining


Because it costs an aggressor with 9000 members the cost of a t2 fit cruiser to wardec an entity 100 times smaller than itself and in order for the defender to assemble a coalition to equal the attacker side would cost more dollars than exist on this planet.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#542 - 2012-06-29 15:03:48 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Because it costs an aggressor with 9000 members the cost of a t2 fit cruiser to wardec an entity 100 times smaller than itself and in order for the defender to assemble a coalition to equal the attacker side would cost more dollars than exist on this planet.


unless you find an ally with 9000 members, in which case, well, it's free

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#543 - 2012-06-29 16:38:36 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Because it costs an aggressor with 9000 members the cost of a t2 fit cruiser to wardec an entity 100 times smaller than itself and in order for the defender to assemble a coalition to equal the attacker side would cost more dollars than exist on this planet.


unless you find an ally with 9000 members, in which case, well, it's free


But is the intent of the inferno 1.1 changes to ensure there is an overwhelming game benefit to be had by cramming 9000 people into the same alliance?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#544 - 2012-06-29 16:52:31 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
But is the intent of the inferno 1.1 changes to ensure there is an overwhelming game benefit to be had by cramming 9000 people into the same alliance?


No, that's the intent of the game as a whole. Why shouldn't you have an advantage if you can get 9000 dudes (we don't actually have 9000 dudes, we have maybe 5000 and that's being optimistic) into one alliance under a common command structure and solid in-game and out-of-game communication?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#545 - 2012-06-29 17:32:27 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
But is the intent of the inferno 1.1 changes to ensure there is an overwhelming game benefit to be had by cramming 9000 people into the same alliance?


No, that's the intent of the game as a whole. Why shouldn't you have an advantage if you can get 9000 dudes (we don't actually have 9000 dudes, we have maybe 5000 and that's being optimistic) into one alliance under a common command structure and solid in-game and out-of-game communication?



Well you do of course have a great many advantages that come from pure numbers. Many many aspects of the game provide this to the side that simply "brings more." But my question to you was specifically about a mechanic bias in favour of "more" in a single alliance structure. Things don't neccessarily work like that even in 0.0 - where the dogpile is unlimited and you can literally bring the kitchen sink into a fleet fight. So why specifically should 9000 in a single entity be specifically advantaged (by game design bias) in empire warfare?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#546 - 2012-06-29 21:27:15 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Well you do of course have a great many advantages that come from pure numbers. Many many aspects of the game provide this to the side that simply "brings more." But my question to you was specifically about a mechanic bias in favour of "more" in a single alliance structure. Things don't neccessarily work like that even in 0.0 - where the dogpile is unlimited and you can literally bring the kitchen sink into a fleet fight. So why specifically should 9000 in a single entity be specifically advantaged (by game design bias) in empire warfare?


You're missing the point entirely. You know full well that the weight of our "9000 man alliance" will never bear down on you. And like I've already said, if you trimmed your "defensive coalition" (it's not a coalition no matter how much you say it is) down to the top six, it wouldn't make a difference because the rest of that "coalition" consists of closed corps, one-man tax havens and coattail riders who kill a couple of Ibises and declare victory.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#547 - 2012-06-30 00:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mechael
Jade Constantine wrote:
Well you do of course have a great many advantages that come from pure numbers. Many many aspects of the game provide this to the side that simply "brings more." But my question to you was specifically about a mechanic bias in favour of "more" in a single alliance structure. Things don't neccessarily work like that even in 0.0 - where the dogpile is unlimited and you can literally bring the kitchen sink into a fleet fight. So why specifically should 9000 in a single entity be specifically advantaged (by game design bias) in empire warfare?


Because Empire space is designed for and has always been intended to be for noobs only. And the hyper-casual, I suppose I can grant that as well.

Once you know how to play, gtfo of rainbow unicorn land where people still struggle to find stargates. Get out of the theme park and go play in the sand.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Andrew Keiran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#548 - 2012-07-02 21:06:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Keiran
/deleted/
Tug McLub
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#549 - 2012-07-06 01:51:14 UTC
10,20,40,80m for allys?
Really?
Why dont you make it cost like Decs cost, 10 m isnt ****.



This game is going to the nubs
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#550 - 2012-07-10 15:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
The whole damn wardec / alliance and for that matter, criminal flagging system suffers from a bit of an identity crisis. It wants to be too many things while contradicting its motivation.

If a big alliance is pissing off enough people that 80% of the player base wants to declare massive war against them and it takes 100 allies of smaller corporations to equal the larger alliance numbers, then so what. Why is that a problem?

These fragmented allies still need to coordinate resources and deal with internal politics to such a degree that it could completely work against them. Let that skill set be the determining factor of success.

Take the example people keep citing here about the massive war with tonnes of allies against the Goons. Now, I like the Goons, but they started this "emergent gameplay" nonsense propping up Hulkageddon indefinitely, kept shooting their mouthes off, keept saying how "no one wants risk and no PVP" and blah blah blah, and then finally there was "do something about it".

So they did, people got together and declared war and got all the allies they can muster... now, all of a sudden, there is something wrong with that.

Stop B!tching.

The tiered alliance fees are stupid, plain and simple.

CCP just needs to remember what happened a while back when they tried to cover too many bases and lost their way, same thing is happening here. Don't try to cover all the bad things that may happen, especially if those things are a natural or there are loopholes that can achieve the same result (Actually Forming a real alliance)

It REALLY needs a fresh look from the ground up and needs to have some balls attached to it.
Get an expert already or some outside advice, its just not working, especially the criminal flagging system, I think maybe a handfull of people even have a clue as to how it works most of the time. Should not be so confusing.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Grojar Flesp
SQS Group
#551 - 2012-07-25 20:18:43 UTC
Quick question, thought to look up the new skill on evelopedia, wasn't there. Shocked

Found out it was a stub, so could somebody please update something so that the stub is up to date again?

Perhaps rattle a server, jiggle with an utp cable, you know, standard ITIL service management please Big smile
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#552 - 2012-09-05 11:37:40 UTC

So (just curious really) its been a few months now. Is anyone currently enjoying the Inferno 1.1 wardec system in game?

If so could you take a moment to explain the good things about it and how you've found its enhanced your enjoyment of Eve Online?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#553 - 2012-09-05 13:37:57 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

So (just curious really) its been a few months now. Is anyone currently enjoying the Inferno 1.1 wardec system in game?

If so could you take a moment to explain the good things about it and how you've found its enhanced your enjoyment of Eve Online?

Also, is there data available on pre and post Inferno wardec kills? In other words, is this new wardec system facilitating more death and destruction? Was the old system better at enabling combat with war targets? Etc.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.