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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#281 - 2012-07-02 15:23:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
See: Dust 514 Cloning tech.


Entirely different tech. We are not DUSTies. If we get killed outside of the capsule, our only recourse is a backup ("soft") clone that only contains memories (hint: SP) up to the point the backup was made - a time-consuming backup given the need to not destroy the brain in the process.

Furthermore, #2 is out entirely as well, unless there are some pretty drastic changes to CONCORD policies. Having two or more simultaneously active clones is highly illegal and a "crime of the highest magnitude". To avoid this you'd need to "shut down" the clone inside the capsule, leaving your ship entirely defenseless. That really sounds like an absolutely wonderful idea to me.

#3 is the most sensible: given the option of dying and losing your memories, causing CONCORD to crawl up your ass even more than they do already with all of the monitoring equipment stashed in our ships and capsules, or sending some expendable peons, what is any capsuleer with a brain going to do? That's right - they're going to use the redshirts.

On the other hand, #3 also defeats the purpose of it being our own avatar doing things, which begs the question: if, god forbid, CCP decides to design this feature with the intent of remaining consistent with EVE's already-existing and long-established Prime Fiction, what the hell is the point of this kind of WiS content?


The obvious resolution to this dilemma is to update the lore to say whatever we need it to say for the sake of good gameplay.


The other obvious solution is to design good gameplay around existing lore.

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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#282 - 2012-07-02 15:25:54 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The obvious resolution to this dilemma is to update the lore to say whatever we need it to say for the sake of good gameplay.


They did that with the release of FW. Remind me how well that worked out? Lol

Oh right. It didn't.

Rewriting lore for the sake of gameplay is a ****** cop-out - and the given case of multiple active clones is one that CONCORD - not to mention the Empires - would never consider changing for obvious security reasons.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#283 - 2012-07-02 15:28:37 UTC
These avatar sites should appear in all part of space; high, low, null and wormhole and the reward should increase in that order. The reward from HS sites should probably be equivalent to the crappy HS mag sites.

If you are going to allow capsuleers to physically enter these sites in high and low sec, the consequences for attacking someone should be as they are now while flying in space. You get a global criminal flag in low/HS and you get CONCORDED in HS. CONCORD should't just simply blow the site up to kill the criminal, they should send in drones to kill him/her.

Another option of exploring sites would be to use robots. These robots could be a new market item and be completely customisable. Maybe you could create a faction fit T3 exploration bot that cost 1 billion ISK, only to have it get destroyed by another player. There's you risk.

Lets not for get that this is a game, so i'm sure i won't be that hard for CCP to write some new lore explaining why capsuleers are now immortal outside of their pods.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#284 - 2012-07-02 15:35:11 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The other obvious solution is to design good gameplay around existing lore.


In this case the lore issue is a legal one and laws can be changed. Otherwise, we can just be committing a criminal activity and that is barely a speed bump for most capsuleers anyway.

_ _
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#285 - 2012-07-02 15:36:00 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The obvious resolution to this dilemma is to update the lore to say whatever we need it to say for the sake of good gameplay.


They did that with the release of FW. Remind me how well that worked out? Lol

Oh right. It didn't.

Rewriting lore for the sake of gameplay is a ****** cop-out - and the given case of multiple active clones is one that CONCORD - not to mention the Empires - would never consider changing for obvious security reasons.


Why can't the lore be added to as apposed to rewritten?

This new Dust tech has been discovered. It sounds plausible to me that over time this technology could be adapted for capsuleers.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Azrin Stella Oerndotte
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#286 - 2012-07-02 15:40:38 UTC
"Advancements in understanding Sansha mind control implants has allowed the ability to remotely control special clones, allowed in exploration sites only"

Problem solved.
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#287 - 2012-07-02 15:41:19 UTC
Another option is that mercenary style battlefield cloning is short range only. If you ship is destroyed as well and you suicide back to home base then you take a skill hit due to a partial and imperfect emergency cloning. Something that is normally avoided due to the advanced capsule cloning technology.

_ _
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#288 - 2012-07-02 15:46:11 UTC
with the route that I can see this going there will be the rising question once all our WiS/Ambulation stuff begins to really play a role in the game and that question will be:

so, I can get off my ship, walk around my CQ, I can get off my ship and fight with someone in an exploration site with guns or knives and other tech/resources. BUT I cannot get off my ship and fight alongside my mercs on a planet. then those dusties might ask the same question in vice versa, you mean I cannot be hired to fight on these exploration sites for the eve pilots?

some cross integration (PS3/PC) needs will begin to rise as you, CCP, start to have a demand by players on both sides of the fence for this. How you handle that, could possibly be a positive or negative for BOTH of your games.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#289 - 2012-07-02 15:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
arcca jeth wrote:

so, I can get off my ship, walk around my CQ, I can get off my ship and fight with someone in an exploration site with guns or knives and other tech/resources. BUT I cannot get off my ship and fight alongside my mercs on a planet. then those dusties might ask the same question in vice versa, you mean I cannot be hired to fight on these exploration sites for the eve pilots?


Sure you can... Buy a PC and a PS3 - WIN!

Of course people are always going to want more. When they release exploration sites people will demand they allow use to access public areas in stations. When the allow access to stations people will demand that we be allowed to explore planets. After that we'll want to board enemy ships.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#290 - 2012-07-02 15:51:23 UTC
i have no issues there as I have both. But CCP will have to figure out how to implement those things, not me
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#291 - 2012-07-02 15:55:27 UTC  |  Edited by: oldbutfeelingyoung
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Just for reference sakes, if we went for your actual avatar use, I would not be voting for a permadeath.
Maybe just a bad limp in the CQ. Blink



blog?


and what about ,just implementing the stuff ,as presented a few years ago and then ask yourself about how to die

R.S.I2014
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#292 - 2012-07-02 15:58:43 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Team Avatar, maybe just providing meeting areas rather than having the players re-purpose exploration content would be better?


We'd have nothing against people camping out in these structures.

That said making actual gameplay gives us a much better point to add social areas as you note yourself they share a lot of the same technology requirements. So I'd rather hope that we did both. Smile


I wonder in what point "actual gameplay" became "dungeon raiding shooter", as i can't recall that anyone asked the players interested on WiS what did they want or expect from it. Question


Team Avatar is prototyping as we speak, but "Meaningful/Actual" sure as hell aint a bunch of dudes emoting each other in a station.



show me on the spacebarbie doll ,where the emoter touched you so badly.


R.S.I2014
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#293 - 2012-07-02 15:59:31 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Just for reference sakes, if we went for your actual avatar use, I would not be voting for a permadeath.
Maybe just a bad limp in the CQ. Blink


Have you given any thought to changing the appearance of an avatar after the player has been poded?

I think for the first couple of days the avatar should be bald, skinny and pale. Smile

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Conrad Makbure
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#294 - 2012-07-02 16:10:06 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
This is the most exciting thing I've heard in ... ever? I'm glad to see they have some actual gameplay underway with Incarna. It's a very impressive engine; I hate to see it being used solely for staring at the door.


Just to be totally clear this has so far been prototype work and we need management support to move further on into the production of it. That lots of players and developers are actually quite excited about it is obviously a big plus point in that regard.



Put me down for being in the camp of excited peeps! I'm looking forward to this for sure. I get to walk out of my ship and the environment might actually extend beyond the station? Hell yes, please.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#295 - 2012-07-02 16:13:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Rek Seven wrote:
CCP RedDawn wrote:
Just for reference sakes, if we went for your actual avatar use, I would not be voting for a permadeath.
Maybe just a bad limp in the CQ. Blink


Have you given any thought to changing the appearance of an avatar after the player has been poded?

I think for the first couple of days the avatar should be bald, skinny and pale. Smile


I insure my clones have the proper hair style and have tanning lights installed in the tank, thank you very much.

The existing lore does include progress. Any additions to the lore that are consistent with that is already widely known and used by role players would be OK.

Gutting the entire lore framework to make one feature is not.

For example (as mentioned above) we could say the soft clone doing the exploring is active, or the main one in the pod is active, but not both. CONCORD then says this is legal, as it means your mind is only in one body at a time.

Edit: Another way. You can enter either with a clone or your main body. To use a clone you got to go get one of your jump clones and carry it in your ship. On arrival at the site you send in the clone. If it dies you wake up in your ship, and you are out one jump clone. You got to go purchase a new one. Or you could elect to risk not using a clone and leave your ship, leaving it vulnerable to being stolen. (Have a friend scoop it into an orca? It is supposed to be a cooperative play feature.) Then if you die, you wake up at your med clone station.

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CCP Bayesian
#296 - 2012-07-02 17:54:05 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
[quote=CCP Bayesian]I wonder in what point "actual gameplay" became "dungeon raiding shooter", as i can't recall that anyone asked the players interested on WiS what did they want or expect from it. Question


A "dungeon raiding shooter" is definitely not what we envisage this gameplay as being.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#297 - 2012-07-02 17:56:03 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
[quote=CCP Bayesian]I wonder in what point "actual gameplay" became "dungeon raiding shooter", as i can't recall that anyone asked the players interested on WiS what did they want or expect from it. Question


A "dungeon raiding shooter" is definitely not what we envisage this gameplay as being.

We getting that blog to day?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#298 - 2012-07-02 17:57:43 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
[quote=CCP Bayesian]I wonder in what point "actual gameplay" became "dungeon raiding shooter", as i can't recall that anyone asked the players interested on WiS what did they want or expect from it. Question


A "dungeon raiding shooter" is definitely not what we envisage this gameplay as being.



Are you aware of this conversation?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1559407#post1559407

tl;dr: allow station wrecking by flying supercaps into them, then instead of player assets in the outpost being destroyed, you have to retrieve them via a WiS scenario.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#299 - 2012-07-02 18:02:11 UTC
I'm opposed to any further Incarna development unless it includes this feature. My expectation, based on CCP's own presentations and videos, is a station environment just as dangerous for capsuleers as the space they fly in.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#300 - 2012-07-02 18:03:02 UTC
Baneken wrote:

Well that certainly sounds promising, I wonder if in future we could interact with DUST soldiers on stations, now that would be just awesome.


Could that be the reason why we aren't getting DUST for the PC? Because WiS will let us interact with DUST players in FPS style shooter mode? /me starts rumors