Warfare & Tactics

I'm noticing how you're completely ignoring the comments about "being locked in permanently as an ally is dumb", "unlimited allies which get free wardecs", and CCP saying "we know it's an issue, it's on our list", in a recording made (or released) the 24th (i.e. 2 days after inferno was released), where one of the main features were a mercenary marketplace, which because of the first two talking points I've outlined didn't even exist because of the whole "open the wardec up to the entire world, receive a bajillion allies for free" mechanic (which you also abused) ... but noooooooo, it has to be a "goon conspiracy".

One thing I'm noticing, though, is that you've now gone from "the goonies had to whine to CCP to change the wardec system because we humiliated them" to "the goonies had to whine to CCP to change the wardec system because the honda accord humiliated them". And, given that podcast, I suppose you're going to tell us that mittani has, now, more influence over CCP than when he was the CSM chair, to the point where he's gotten them to start redesigning the wardec mechanism within a day of its introduction? Despite the fact both CCP and the CSM claim pretty succinctly that it wasn't on the goons (or any other large alliance)'s behalf, and in particular Alekseyev Karrde made it pretty sure that he spearheaded the initiative to get the gaping holes in the 1.0 mechanic shuttered.

I see.

So let me see if I've understood you right. Mittani is the leader of a group which spent a fair bit of time collecting the resources to stage the "burn jita" weekend. He's leading an alliance which had, during april, well over 13000 kills (to the price of 1555 billion isk) for 10400 losses (to the price of 628 billion isk) ... and you're trying to tell me a pithy little war which hadn't even gotten past the 20 billion mark or past 400 ships after 1.5 months, let alone whatever it'd gotten to after a single day, is supposed to send Mittani crying to CCP to fix the mechanics? That's really going to be the line of logic you're going to go with, on the assumption that he cares so much about a hisec war?

Why, if he cares so much, did he not hold a speech and tell us to go forth and burn your maggot asses down? Last I checked, we'd been done with the tenal war for a long while by then, so it's not like there should be a shortage of manpower.


Again with the assumptions that the honda accord was big and mean enough to scare an enemy which is used to seeing a minimum of 8000 kills and 5000 losses pr month, over ... how few ships again? 10? in a day.

Yeah, it makes total sense that we'd even notice in any way, shape or form that we lost ships in hisec.

For it to smart, don't you think we'd have to give a flying **** about kill/death ratios in the first place? I mean, I can tell you time and time again that we really don't give a flying ****, but with your capacity to think that a change which was initiated 3 weeks prior to the devblog detailing the changes which were coming to the wardec system, was in fact in retaliation to your exploitation of the new wardec system, I don't really expect this to sink in.

In fact, I fully expect you'll keep posting about how mittens got so scared when he saw how effective you were, he went back in time a full 3 weeks and told CCP that they must make changes, and that CCP have suddenly come completely under mittens' thumb, to the point where they just went "yes massa" and made changes. In the past.

Oh, I see. So you've gone from "mittens went to CCP and whined because we owned him so hard", to "mittens went to CCP and whined because honda accord owned him so hard", and now finally to "yeah well, at least I won my isk war" because you know the img-timeline doesn't add up? And the only way you think you can salvage any of this, is to harp on about "you're mad. I know you're mad. See? See? I told you you're mad"?

That is pretty weak, even for you.

So to sum up the situation:

• Jade gets wardecced
• Jade opens up the war to everyone, and posts about it on eve-o
• CCP puts out a devblog detailing changes to the wardec mechanism (which were initiated within a few days of inferno 1.0 being deployed)
• Jade whines about the changes, and claims (repeatedly, I might add) that mittani is behind these changes because of how we're getting trounced by the star fraction's "friends", and how CCP are just cowtowing mittani.
• Everyone and their dog (i.e. various CCP and CSM members) tells Jade "that's not what happened, please remove the tinfoil hat", and "the changes were initiated several weeks ago". Soundwave even says outright that Jade is just fabricating this to support his opinion, by making incorrect assumptions about what goes on in meetings he has no information about.
• Jade keeps on whining about the changes and claiming that mittani is behind these changes because of how we're getting trounced by the star fraction's "friends", and how CCP are just cowtowing mittani.
• A few people (me amongst them) point out, again, that the changes were initiated several weeks prior to the wardec with the star fraction going active.
• Jade keeps on whining about the changes and claiming that mittani is behind these changes because of how we're getting trounced by the star fraction's "friends", and how CCP are just cowtowing mittani. Jade also claims it was "social consequences" which let him add 51 allies for free, claim how we've been sucking on the "moon-goo-teat for five years", and harps on about his kill/death ratio and his isk efficiency.
• I point out that by "social consequences", Jade really means "game mechanic exploitation" and call Jade out on the "moongoo teat sucking for 5 years" line, and I point out that Jade is adamant in ignoring when the changes were initiated.
• Jade basically ignores the entire post and claims I was lying.
• I claim the opposite.
• Jade claims I have a "pretty terrible reputation", and that my "credibility is at an all-time low", and harps on about some devblog which "specifically mentions unlimited allies".
• I call Jade out, again, on the "you lie" claim, and I ask for the devblog which "specifically mentions unlimited allies".
• Jade, again, does nothing but throw insults.
• I ask if Jade is done being insulting, point out (yet again) that the 1.1 changes were initiated several weeks prior to the war against the star fraction, and ask if he's going to keep claiming (falsely) that we were the instigator of the changes.
• Jade turns around and claims that it was, in fact, the war against the honda accord which caused mittani to whine to CCP, and he claims that he'd been saying it was all because of the honda accord all along.
• I point out that this claim is bullshit, and that the figures which Jade uses to categorize our losses as "hysterical losses" aren't even drops in the figures we regularly see on a monthly basis during our life in nullsec, and that even I could've covered the losses from my own pocket.
• Jade keeps on claiming that Mittens whined to CCP through "his proxy on the CSM" (whomever that is), and that mittens cares so much about this war that he can't live with losing it. Jade also claim that CCP and CSM responses have been "universally poor", how "CCP and the CSM have been quite negative to genuine neutral feedback" (of which I'm sure he counts his attacks on f.ex soundwave and all the CSM members vOv). Oh, and Jade provides a link to a podcast which was published the 24th, where Seleene and Two Step talk a bit about the wardec and mention things like "being locked in permanently as an ally is dumb", "unlimited allies which get free wardecs", and how CCP had said "we know it's an issue, it's on our list". This is at most 2 days after the 1.0 changes went live. And, of course, Jade claims that losing the war, and having that on our "war record" "must smart".
• I point out, again, that the losses are miniscule, and I point out that if Mittens actually cared about "the war", he'd have sent forth the same brigade he did during the burn jita event, since we were still not in an actual war at this point, and had nothing to do. I also point out the timing of the podcast vs inferno's launch date, release the 22nd and podcast the 24th, which basically not only invalidates Jade's "the goonies whined to CCP because of us", but also gives us less than 48 hours to "see how the war is going", which is ridiculously short.
• Jade keeps on evading my points and tries the "you're mad, aren't you? yeah, you're mad. Just look at how mad you are over a game." routine to win the argument.

Jade's posting record tells the tale.

I don't think that's exactly the exploit, though, more the "for free" part, since it basically killed off the merc market before it even got off the ground.


As "burn jita" has shown, if we wanted to shut down an entire solar system, then there's very little anyone can do about it, which means that if we absolutely wanted to do something to, say, honda accord or star fraction, then we could, more or less regardless of the number of "friends" they bring.

The fact of the matter is, however, that while we have "over nine thousand!" people in our alliance, those "over nine thousand!" people aren't in hisec, so for the main part talking about "over nine thousand!" seems to me to be more a case of "look at poor defenseless wittle me, the terrified cute little victim" than an actual cry about being blobbed.


I'm going to assume that you're referring to various comments from various linemembers saying "well, we live in VFK, if you're so upset. come at us" in literally every thread where people ***** and moan about "those evil goonies".


Nope.


Except absolutely everyone were saying how it would be exploited as far back as the 18th of may, 4 days before it was released. The changes which were put into 1.1 were initiated shortly after the 22nd, because CCP saw how people were abusing the whole ally mechanic to get essentially, in some cases as much as 50-70 wardecs, for free. Which means that one of the main features of inferno, the mercenary market, was absolutely worthless.

But if you want to ignore what CCP, the CSM and literally every goon has said on this subject, then feel free, I guess. Your loss, not mine.

So bringing up fact after fact is "the strangest inanities"?

Well, I guess if you can't argue facts, then insults it is. Seems to be par for your course.

Except for every single fact.


Nope. That's implying there's any "blushes" to be had.

Actually, there's one blush to be had here: your posting.


Saying something you wish were true, doesn't make it true. Saying it repeatedly doesn't help, either.

Well, given the layer of insults you keep lathering your posts with the last page or so, and the hilarious aversion to addressing a single ontopic point in them, I'm going to just assume that it's because you can't refute a single one of the facts I've brought to the table.

^

No not at all, but then you know that already. At this point you are just repeating the same flawed arguments already rejected by pretty much everyone outside your own narrow bloc. As I said earlier, it is getting boring. Either make an effort to address the points raised against you (on each of the previous half dozen pages of this thread) or try to get some new material.

Since you seem to think the history of the last 6 pages will help you, let's go there:

Yeah, you remember that podcast you linked, the one where it sounds like CCP began planning the changes to the system within 48 hours of it going into production? That means the honda accord had 24 hours, maximum, to deal "hysterical damage" before CCP began the process of fixing the system.

Incidentally, the honda accord is a 186 person alliance, whereas yours is currently 74. This jives a bit badly with the following:

So, hmm. CCP began fixing the problem within 2 days of launch, you're saying the biggest alliance needed CCP to protect them in a wardec against a 73 man alliance (which I believe would be your alliance), and yet you're saying you've always said the honda accord (a 186 man alliance) was the catalyst for CCP making the changes.

Interesting. I'm sure you're not lying.


Actually, history will show that CCP launched a mechanic with bad holes in it, started the work with changing them pretty rapidly after they saw the players exploiting it exactly the way the players said they would. 2 weeks later you bumble along and proclaim, loudly, that you will be testing the system to its breaking point by allowing everyone and their dog to dogpile in on the wardec, only to start yelping like a kicked dog when CCP announces their intention to release updates to the wardec mechanic soon.

Sadly, you weren't relevant in this process except as another datapoint, well after the decision to start iterating had been made, in verifying that the war mechanic did, indeed, need changes.


Ah, yes, the podcast which was released 2 days after inferno was released, where seleene and two step said CCP knew about various idiotic holes in the system, and that they would be iterated upon.

I'm sorry you've been utterly irrelevant in the entire process, I can only imagine how much it must've hurt your ego to realize.

Oh, by the way, I did stumble upon someone who isn't swallowing your ... whatever we should call it.


vOv

If only everyone thought the same way you did, and would stop pestering you with all these pesky facts then the world would be a better place, eh?


And this is exactly what everyone said would be abused, and funnily enough, it is exactly what was abused. Which is why CCP began the work of changing it within 2 days of release, because they saw exactly how it was being exploited, well before anyone could weep copious tears over "how unfair it was".


The war on the honda accord was initiated the 3rd of may. The final wardec devblog was released the 18th of may, and your scrabby little alliance was wardecced the 31st of may.

CCP released the war mechanics the 22nd, and started working on fixing the exploitable part of the mechanic the 23rd or 24th, i.e. 3 weeks after the war against the honda accord was declared.


This "declared unfair" aspect was done by CCP within 2 days of the wardec mechanism going live, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was initiated even before a single shot was fired by anyone.

The only one still insisting on this being "by the big bad alliances", is you. The rest of the eve forums have seemingly caught on to the fact that CCP are actually monitoring and iterating on their features now.

And the only weeping I've seen have been you weeping copiously about how unfair it is that the war mechanic, which you've said you were going to "test to their breaking point", have been changed, is you.

As for the effectiveness of your whole campaign, your miserable little alliance still haven't even managed to kill as many ships in total (i.e. over a period of almost a month) than we lose each day during a slow month. The honda accord has done better in that regard, but we're still talking about less than 2 days' worth of ships in 1-2 months. Oh dear, how terrifying. I think I'm going to go cry in a corner now, in sheer terror.


Yes, yes, I know you're pissed that CCP began changing the war mechanics 3 weeks prior to you saying you wanted to exploit it as hard as you could. I guess you're going to just have to decide whether or not you want to have allies such as:

• We help noobs (2 players)
• INVARIANT TENSOR (20 players)
• Tremendous Fail Inc. (2 players)
• Angelservice (3 players)
• JESUS CHRIST IT'S ROBOT UNICORN ATTACK PARTY (3 players)
• Dukes of Noobs (3 players)
• Spontaneous Castigation (1 player)
• Pods Must Cry (0 players)
• Nocturnal Twins (2 players)
• I AM UGLY AND THIS MAKES ME ANGRY ALSO JUMP (1 player)
• Kicking Smurfs (18 players)
• C.I.A. NRDS (1 player)
• Hostile Kids (5 players)
• Freight Club (7 players)
• Owl Squadron (4 players)
• Next Era Dawn (10 players)
• Born In Sodom (2 players)
• Kamikaze Tactics (11 players)
• Unicorn Zero (3 players)
• PAX Interstellar Mercenary People (6 players)
• The Chihuahuas of War (1 player)
• The Blacklist LTd. (1 player)
• Sons of Michael (1 player)
• Kursk Security (0 players)
• Destruction Overload (1 player)
• Envy. (0 players)
• Multicultural Appreciation Society (0 players)
• Pandora Cartel (3 players)
• New Oregon Republic (0 players)
• labour anal (3 players)
• Kutisha ujuzi (3 players)
• Terry Mad Tuff Tuffs GmbH und Co. KG (2 players)
• We have flatulents (0 players)
• Samoan Joe's (2 players)
• Advanced Ballistic Retail Armoury (1 player)
• Moar Tears (30 players)
• P O D (111 players)
• P I R A T (31 players)
• Iron Oxide. (119 players)
• I Know Right (77 players)
• Corsairs. (27 players)
• Let Us Sleep (16 players)
• Ex Obscuritas (3 players)
• Electric Society (29 players)
• The State (5 players)
• Tactical Knoghtmare (24 players)
• New eden lotto (1 player)
• Hikage Corporation (3 players)
• Rowdy Ramblers (5 players)
• Moustache Twirling Space Cads (11 players)
• Corpus Alienum (12 players)

Or maybe, just maybe, you should consider the value of adding more 0-3 member corps to your war, and instead make a conscious decision as to who you hire as defense mercenaries.

You know, actually look at how effective a corp/alliance is at hisec pvp instead accepting everyone and then crying about how unfair it is that it'll cost $300000 to add the next 1 man corp to your war.