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Standard Missile Launchers - FIX
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Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#1 - 2012-06-22 09:37:18 UTC
Hi,

I am an user of the frigate class ships, I have used rockets pre buff and post buff for there consistent damage regardless of low dps number.

However I have tried numerous times to make Standard Missile Launchers work but the fitting for them is an absolute Joke.

All these stats with zero SP character, for reference.

Heavy Missile Launcher II - 105 PG - Approx 35km range
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II - 126 PG - Approx 8km range

Cruise Missile Launcher II - 1.31k PG - Approx 70km range
Torpedo Launcher II - 1.84k PG - Approx 8km range

Standard Missile Launcher II - 9 PG - Approx 8km range
Rocket Launcher II - 4 PG - Approx 4km range

Rapid Light Missile Launcher - 50 PG - Same range as Standard Missile Launchers, about 10% more dps but 100% not possible on a frigate.


I have bolded the important part, so why is every other launcher type short range weapon use more PG but for frigates it does not? Trying to fit a proper tank with propulsion on like a crow or a hawk is an absolute joke, yes its possible but you have to sacrifice lows/rigs to get just a basic cookie cutter fit.

I would say rocket PG should be upped 1 and then bring Standard Missile Launcher's down to 4.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#2 - 2012-06-22 13:22:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nestara Aldent
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Dain Highwind
La Isla del Mono
#3 - 2012-06-22 13:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Dain Highwind
So you have discovered that rockets are crap, they have been since 2003 and they will be till eve ends, CCP clearly doesnt love rockets. Nerfing them even more wont help.
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#4 - 2012-06-22 13:57:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gibbo3771
Dain Highwind wrote:
So you have discovered that rockets are crap, they have been since 2003 and they will be till eve ends, CCP clearly doesnt love rockets. Nerfing them even more wont help.


I presume you are either a bad troll or a complete idiot, rockets are the best frigate weapon in the game.

150 rocket paper dps is better than 300 turret paper dps.

Adding to the fitting cost wont effect anything considering hookbills, hawks, any af with a spare high all have extra cpu/pg to fit said rocket with ease but it will bring them in line regarding fitting when compared to there large counterparts.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-06-22 14:35:29 UTC
I thought this was a thread about Standard Missile Launchers, why do you want to nerf Rockets?
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#6 - 2012-06-22 15:13:17 UTC
Zyress wrote:
I thought this was a thread about Standard Missile Launchers, why do you want to nerf Rockets?


I would not saying 1 extra PG is nerfing rockets lol.

Its bringing the PG requirments inline with the fixed standard missile laucher, since 4 is already low as hell.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#7 - 2012-06-22 22:44:54 UTC
Gibbo3771 wrote:
Zyress wrote:
I thought this was a thread about Standard Missile Launchers, why do you want to nerf Rockets?


I would not saying 1 extra PG is nerfing rockets lol.

Its bringing the PG requirments inline with the fixed standard missile laucher, since 4 is already low as hell.


Nerf: Any change that negatively impacts a part of the game, by either increasing the cost or decreasing the benefit, without a corresponding bonus to said part of the game.

You just increased the cost of using rockets, without applying any benefit.

You just asked for a NERF TO ROCKETS.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#8 - 2012-06-23 05:22:14 UTC
Dain Highwind wrote:
So you have discovered that rockets are crap, they have been since 2003 and they will be till eve ends, CCP clearly doesnt love rockets. Nerfing them even more wont help.


Rockets? Crap? My Vengeance would like to have a word with you.

But I digress. I think the point that OP is TRYING to make, is that standard launchers are ridiculously hard to fit, for abysmal payoff.

Just like every single kind of railgun in the game. Interesting. All of the "Caldari" weapon systems are incredibly grid hungry, are underwhelming, and are intended to be used in tandem with ships that have I'm pretty sure some of the most anemic powergrid of the four factions... Coincidence?
Ruareve
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-06-23 05:36:02 UTC
I agree that SML's are very hard to fit for the return they give in DPS. However, simply making a change without comparing how it will effect some of the ship fittings is misleading. Also, take a look at the difference between torps and cruise missiles they are very similar to rockets and SMLs.

That said why not show us some of the ways your proposed changes would effect the kestrel and hawk which are probably the two frigates that mount SML's more often.

Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/
Idris Mandela
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-06-23 05:54:39 UTC
Ruareve wrote:
I agree that SML's are very hard to fit for the return they give in DPS. However, simply making a change without comparing how it will effect some of the ship fittings is misleading. Also, take a look at the difference between torps and cruise missiles they are very similar to rockets and SMLs.

That said why not show us some of the ways your proposed changes would effect the kestrel and hawk which are probably the two frigates that mount SML's more often.


One of the main reasons I dont much care for rockets is actually a consequence of the mixed slots in ships like the (pre-change) Tristan and the lack of rocket bonuses for ships like the Kestrel. The OP has a point regarding fitting SMLs and combined with thier low rate of fire make them somewhat less effective at short range than rockets. Even with Electronics V and Engineering V I still have to fit either a PDU or a Micro Aux to squeeze in the Meta 3 SMLs while leaving room for tank and MWDs - not that the cap lasts that long anyway.

Now there are some people who swear by rockets in close range DPS but in my experience firing a few LM salvoes from 30km off from the target does sufficent damage that even if the target gets into brawling range (5km approx) you would have done enough damage to take most t1 frigs into armor and then (assuming resistance to kinetic being poor) the LMs wil do sufficent dps to pop them.

Personally I would like to see a boost to Raw damage for rockets while at the same time some serious reduction of fitting demands for SMLs
Ruareve
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-06-23 06:03:32 UTC
Idris Mandela wrote:

One of the main reasons I dont much care for rockets is actually a consequence of the mixed slots in ships like the (pre-change) Tristan and the lack of rocket bonuses for ships like the Kestrel. The OP has a point regarding fitting SMLs and combined with thier low rate of fire make them somewhat less effective at short range than rockets. Even with Electronics V and Engineering V I still have to fit either a PDU or a Micro Aux to squeeze in the Meta 3 SMLs while leaving room for tank and MWDs - not that the cap lasts that long anyway.

Now there are some people who swear by rockets in close range DPS but in my experience firing a few LM salvoes from 30km off from the target does sufficent damage that even if the target gets into brawling range (5km approx) you would have done enough damage to take most t1 frigs into armor and then (assuming resistance to kinetic being poor) the LMs wil do sufficent dps to pop them.

Personally I would like to see a boost to Raw damage for rockets while at the same time some serious reduction of fitting demands for SMLs



I'm a big fan of SML's, but I also think the weapon system as a whole as to be looked at to include what it would allow ships to do if a change was made.

As for rockets, I've never looked at their DPS because I hate the range but if they need a buff then so be it. While we are at it there is definitely some more work to be done for rails, they are pitiful in any practical scenario.

Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-06-23 11:27:49 UTC
Dain Highwind wrote:
So you have discovered that rockets are crap, they have been since 2003 and they will be till eve ends, CCP clearly doesnt love rockets. Nerfing them even more wont help.


You realise rockets were fixed over a year ago and are now an excellent weapon system? Idiot.
As for the OP: a small reduction in grid requirements on SMLs certainly wouldn't go amiss, but rockets are fine as they are.
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#13 - 2012-06-23 12:14:11 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Gibbo3771 wrote:
Zyress wrote:
I thought this was a thread about Standard Missile Launchers, why do you want to nerf Rockets?


I would not saying 1 extra PG is nerfing rockets lol.

Its bringing the PG requirments inline with the fixed standard missile laucher, since 4 is already low as hell.


Nerf: Any change that negatively impacts a part of the game, by either increasing the cost or decreasing the benefit, without a corresponding bonus to said part of the game.

You just increased the cost of using rockets, without applying any benefit.

You just asked for a NERF TO ROCKETS.


When you put it that way, does sound like I am calling a nerf but really it is not what I am aiming for.

Currently it uses 4 PG to fit a Rocket Launcher II but since HML II's use less PG than HAM II's it would be unpractical and too easy to fit SML II's to a frigate, since they would need to use less powergrid that its close range high dps counterpart.

Thats why I propose rocket fitting be increased by 1 PG and then make SML II's use 4.

Rather than rockets using 4 and SML using 3.

I also think the CPU requirements for SML II's is an utter joke, considering most missile frigates have at least 4 launcher hardpoints you are using around 85 CPU alone just on the launchers. However railguns also use similar CPU and is a long range weapon so fair enough.

You can get 141 DPS out of a SML II Hawk with around 50-60km range, thats like a mini drake and it opens so much more opportunity for frigate kiting gangs or long range frigate support.