EVE Information Portal

As I said before on a post in this thread that can only have been deleted by mistake, as it was entirely constructive, unline a truckload od posts from Punkturis or whatever the name is regarding popcorn...

Just make it a free for all. Allow all sides both sides of the war dec to get unlimited allies for no cost at all, or for whatever cost is agreed amongst themselves and take your cute little isk sink somewhere else. Put it on clones' cost cause a whole lot more will be podded then. I really hope the purpose of the Inferno expansion was to be a war themed one and not just yet another jab at Diablo3. Saddly however, after much promise CCP has been behaving like the freaking UN.

On a side note, I now have this post saved on a .txt just so I can keep on posting it every time one of you mods deletes it just because.

Well its a good point you raise really as to "what is the actual problem?" with Inferno wardecs escalating in size of participants and leading to more mayhem in empire exactly? One of the problems Eve has faced recently is in the slowing of conflict and loss in 0.0 (not enough people dying and too few wars) leading to people getting super fat and bloated and driving up prices everywhere. Whilst I can't see wardecs actually making up for the terrible balance and poor game design in 0.0 currently - it might help a bit to have actual expansion of war participation (rather than the contraction and imposed barrier to entry in 1.1)

And yep, for a War-themed expansion to end up stifling war and choking off participation is pretty sad.

For what its worth I'm not sure we've seen the worst of the nerfs yet.

What 1.1 will achieve will be the crippling of defender participation in wars. It won't do anything for paid mercs and the only actual winners (aside from 0.0 alliances who will be safer) will be the largest trade hub raider entity who will get invited into ALL wars as the free ally. This means Orphange will have a renaissance of popularity and as long as they can manage not to be inflitrated and disbanded they'll have a field day - and frankly good on them!

Of course the "mercenary profession" will keep complaining and whining that they haven't got an income stream from Inferno and the next nerf we'll see to the war system will be restricting any organization from allying in more than one war.

And so on really.

This is the problem with Team Superfriends (in my opinion) not really understanding the problem with Eve Online wardecs and trying to legislate with the stick rather than the carrot and being badly advised by various "merc professionals" on the CSM.

One thing is sure though, no mercs are getting rich on these changes and for that alone we can draw some small crumb of satisfaction.

goliath please allow me to wardec jade on the forums tia

You know perfectly well that would lead to one of your alts losing a thread full of moon minerals on the first day and once I got 50 allies you'd have to whine to Goliath to turn off the forum ally system again

[citation needed]

You're STILL making assuagions that this is the result of GSF whining about it.

Really.

Wow.


I literally couldn't count the number of times this has been explained to be a bad idea. You still maintain that no one has said anything against it despite there have being countless posts on exactly that. Quoting sources which are obviously biased (Jester openly so, Mabrick is ALSO currently wardecced by GSF) is just bad form. Hilariously, I quoted Mabrick about 10 threads ago saying the 1.0 system was broken.

C'mon, this discussion is better than flat out lying to try to affect a change, no? Can you honestly not do better?

It's a bit early to be joking about being a rabid conspirator, when you're still posting such.

Using internet (fallacy) logic, since no one argued my point, I must be correct.

Seriously though, I'd like to hear someone counter my points by saying how important/good the wardec system is for hi-sec because I simply don't see the benefits.

The sad thing is that in its current state (the wardec system) you actually have a point. And I hate that you have a point. I mean, I used to love the wardec system. I really enjoyed the notion of corporate warfare, alliance showdowns - roleplaying wars, wars for resource and area denial and all that jazz. I've probably a longer wardec history in this game than anybody outside privateers/orphanage and I've been using the system since the servers turned on.

But little by little wardecs did become increasingly irrelevant.

NPC corps are partially to blame, its an obscenity that large alliances can use NPC corp alts to move their wealth to market in perfect safety while using the wardec system to dec smaller targets for vanity griefing purposes with no consequence. Given my way I'd force ALL characters over a month old to leave the NPC corp for a wardeccable corp.

Faction Warefare is partially to blame (for my playstyle, all roleplay alliances basically got eaten up by FW so it became pointless to pursue decs for roleplay ideology and pay for it when you could just join the opposite faction and have it for free).

0.0 stasis and ultimate boredom doesn't help, it used to the case that 0.0 alliances died and lost space and got busted back to the empire where they floated around in confusion and wardecs would blow them to bits. Last few years all 0.0 is napped and static and nobody really loses space any more.

Add to that the increasing risk-averse cynicism of the player base and perception of "us and them" mentality between pvp'ers and pve'ers / nullsec/hisec etc etc and you get a situaiton where rather than getting a wardec and thinking "great lets fight!" it turns into getting a wardec and groaning and making plans to move 30 jumps away, form a shell corp and go play in that till the attackers get bored.

All these things add up to wars being a bit rubbish currently, and I guess part of the disappointment with the Inferno 1.1 nerf is the dawning understanding that they will keep being a bit rubbish because CCP doesn't appear to have the knowledge and interest to design a truly good wardec system. Instead we get this half-assed stumbling thing that lurches between idiot (but enthusiastic) mayhem one week and dullsville crushing stasis the week after.

So yeah. I hate your argument Makari, but frankly I'm not sure I have much to fight it with.

The saddest thing is that I think CCP *could* genuinely have renewed and regenerated the wardec system this summer if they'd had the courage of the initial convictions expressed in the early devblogs - but a cavalcade of whinging from the big alliances and their CSM appointees have led to the neutering of creativity to short-sighted narrow-minded lobbying that doesn't even benefit half the lobbyists at the end of the day (ie big alliance protection boosted, merc profession completely thrown under the bus).

Another suggestion...

What about separating mercs from allies

Allies are your "friends". They join the war because they are your friends. Friends stand by friends. They join for free. In unlimited numbers and have no way of backing out of the war. Friends to the end!

Mercenaries are not friends. They join the war for money. You buy them for 2 weeks at a time. Prices as described elsewhere in this horrible thread.

EDIT: Allies are not dropped from the war if the war goes mutual. Friends to the end!