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"combat" supporting an Orca/Hulk

Author
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-06-17 07:10:45 UTC
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
Please show one single killmail where gankers shoot an orca assisting in mining without agro...


http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16720958
Sean McIlhenny
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-06-18 16:07:50 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
Please show one single killmail where gankers shoot an orca assisting in mining without agro...


http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=16720958

That's not a suicide gank. Either there was a wardec or that orca went flashy to the attackers.
Marsan
#23 - 2012-06-18 16:23:06 UTC
Honestly you are better off not flying a hulk if you are worried about a ganking. Take that RR ship and add another cheap miner. Fly something that if someone blows it up you shrug and buy another out of petty cash.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

ashley Eoner
#24 - 2012-06-18 21:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
Why tank the orca?
Dc2 + cpu rig + sieldextender rigs, inv field and emp hardners...
Might need a shield extender, but hey.

No alpha ship will touch you.

But screw brick tanking the orca, that is just dumb.


Looks like someone wants easy Orca kills.

Do you know why some people like to brick tank their Orcas?
Orca can reach 280k EHP with just T2 mods and T1 shield rigs.

You want to gank that in 0.7 or higher? Prepare to lose ~1,5 bil worth of Tornadoes.
Confirmed my Orca with cargo expansion and no combat rigs still has about 230k EHP with a character that isn't maxed out on skills.

Personally I would suggest you just mine in covetors since they are nearly 1/9th the price of a hulk. With just a DCU for a tank and average skills you can easily have over 16k EHP.
Cap James Tkirk
Asteros Anonymous
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#25 - 2012-06-18 22:29:21 UTC
Smirky Dirk wrote:
Cap James Tkirk wrote:
hi sec = african safari............. fail
low sec and null are more like african safari where the preadtors eat the prey hs is for thoes that are prey and wish to remain prey i understand you might think your a mighty predator but your just a fish in a bowl. come out to lawlessness and practice being a predator

i know i was a bear in hs for a long time but im shifting into better gears

im not saying your prey but a predator ehhhhhhh thats up for debate

(im not a predator im a toon)

Low and null are not like the savannah, unless there's an army of gazelles and zebras with machine guns out on the plains. It isn't a Pixar or Disney film, as hard as that may be for the intellectually challenged to understand. low and null are active warzones in which everyone is both predator and prey. The analogy is a simple one. Herds of nearly defenseless prey graze while staying alert. It's pure hunting. A killer vs. a runner.

People with THIS kind of kill board should probably shut the **** up and avoid talking like a tough guy. Seriously, 13 kills in just over a year? That's pathetic.

In the last few days it's been hard to get a gank because the miners are finally, at long last, getting smarter. I think that's a good thing for everyone. It makes the stalk much more fun. Despite what p*ssies like you think and say, its actually fairly easy to avoid getting ganked if you LEARN HOW THE GAME MECHANICS WORK. Instead of spending time writing treatises on the unfairness of it all, how about you spend that time studying game mechanics?

Finally, I came IN from null sec to set up my hunting alts. You're just now going out. We'll meet again. I promise.


lol tough guy and pro pvper are not things i claim to be but thanks for the moral support..... and in what part of nature are thier police to stop an animal rom eating another.............. o shiza that doesnt happen so happy internet tough guy day to you good sir.
Lady Darkmoon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-06-18 23:18:32 UTC
The ganking is just way too simple, cheap and effortless.

A one week old alt with a catalyst can freely gank retrievers and hulks.

Sure, there are some that try to tank up their barge or exhumers, but realistically, how many miners/builders have invested weeks of training into shields? And how much more buffer do you really get compared to the insignificant time investment required to make a gank destroyer?

Not to mention the barges/exhumers are pretty tight on their CPU and PG, and adding extenders and/or resists quickly makes players without really good fitting skills end up being unable to fit the tank they need.

So your hulk tank withstands the gank attempt of one player in a catalyst. One week later you have two alts jumping you at same time cause they know you are trying to tank up your miner.

Really nice to have a 300mill isk ship be blown up by a 7 day old clown with a destroyer.

The barges and exhumers have way too little EHP compared to their cost (exhumers in particular). Granted, they have hinted at addressing those issues this winter. Until then it's free for everyone who is bored to just roll out alts and gank any miner in sight.

After the massive banwaves the mineral and ore prices have shot up, making ships, modules and ammo alot more expensive than it used to be. Great! AFK mining bots deserved no less. Ban them all.

Now we have "active" miners who are out there forming small fleets with friends and mining out ore and minerals to supply the market... and they are getting shredded by bored people's 7 day old alts. And people are actually standing around, dumbfounded, complaining about the expensive ore and mineral prices, and consequently ship / module prices.

Do you really think the ore/mineral prices will start to decrease when you first have all the bots banned, and then you have all the "legit" miners getting suicideganked and losing their barges and exhumers ?

Personally I know know several players that I've been mining with that have simply given up mining after losing their last ship to a gank, and instead they start training to do mission runs. Which, for me, is just fine cause I have a mission running alt that can fly with them, or just help salvage and move the loot.

However... less miners, and more mission runners, just means more demand for ships and ammo, meaning higher ore/mineral prices... yet again. If things keep going the way they are, especially with the low-cost suicide ganks becomming more frequent to the point where' it's more or less a sport, well... don't complain about high cost on ships.

Anyways, to get back on topic again.

Sure, you can try to tank out your miner/exhumer... but it's only a matter of how many week old alts are the gankers interested in training up or using. It's also pretty obvious, especially in EVE, that if you start to resist their gank they'll just up the ante and take it as a challenge.

And with the mining ships the way they are today, there's not much you can do, unless you actually want to either have alts siting on standby with logi's... or have actually friends or corp mates babysitting you 23/7.

TL;dr - As I said further up, ganking mining ships is way to cheap in both isk and time investment for the ganker compared to what the mining ships cost in terms of isk and skill training.
Ji'kahr
1st Kameiras Brigade
#27 - 2012-06-19 04:57:57 UTC
There are ways that you can mine more safely.

-First of all, get away from the warp in point. Slowboat to either end of the belt, and bookmark it or anchor a GSC.
-Keep your eye on local and watch for a surge, check people's bios. Pirates and griefers will often say "Yarr, I'm a Pirate!"
-Check your directional scanner. Set it for 50,000 kilometers. Hit the directional scan button every three seconds or so. If you see any ship you don't know on the scanner, or warping into the warp-in point of the belt and making their way towards you, watch out!
-Mine inside mining missions, scan down gravimetric sites too. The ores are usually better, and gankers have to work extra hard to find you and your fleet in a mission or a grav site.
-At the first sign of danger, mining ships should pull in their drones and warp out. Stay aligned to station as you mine, this makes it faster for your ship to warp.

-Yes, E-WAR is an excellent protective measure against mining fleets. It makes the 'war' more boring and frustrating for them. Target jammers, tracking distruptors, energy neutralizers, etc.
-The Osprey is not only an awesome mining cruiser, but it is also good at providing logistics to another ship. So yes, you could conceivably use one to transfer shields to the Orcas or Hulks. It wouldn't look unusual in a mining fleet either.
-Most armed mining fleet usually have a battleship as a 'guard'. I'm not sure if this is protection against Gankers so much as to 'tank the rats' so they don't bother the miners. Battleships also have a good drone bay, so train drone skills. You can also mine in a battleship, which does about as well as a Retriever.
Lady Darkmoon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-06-19 13:03:38 UTC
This doesn't change the fact that a simple 1 week alt with 2 mill investment can kill a 300 mill ship (mods not included).

Something is wrong with that picture and needs to be changed.

Sure, suicide ganking should be in the game, but it shouldn't be a free kill with zero cost related (and seriously, for most people who suicide gank with an alt, 2 mill is no cost investment whatsoever).
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#29 - 2012-06-19 14:09:17 UTC
Trappist Monk wrote:
Celgar Thurn wrote:
They aren't called gutless cowards for nothing. Smile

I'm not sure how you can call kamikazes cowards. It may be hard to believe, but some people don't do it "maliciously" to harvest your tears. Personally, i see hisec as the african savannah. you guys are zebras and i'm a cheetah. There is no good or bad, right or wrong, just predator and prey.


LOL

seriously??

you are not a cheetah killing mining ships in high sec, you are the neighborhood stray cat trying kill the caged rabbits in someones back yard, and getting yourself killed in the process.

If you want to be a cheetah go to low or null sec. In the African Savannah most of your prey will fight back. In the Savannah Cheetah's will often get killed by the herd they are attacking. much more like null than high sec.

Killing miners in high sec is like hunting animals in a ZOO. It does not make you a great hunter, and eventually you will get you ass thrown out.
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