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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

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Jules Deathbringer
Redemption or Retribution
#861 - 2012-06-18 01:53:39 UTC
the first thing i was taught in HIGH SCHOOL computer programming class was that the end user doesnt care how
much goes into a program, they only care how it works.

you are paid to do this, we are not paid to tell u how u screwed it up

you are paid to do this, we have to suffer all your mistakes

you are paid to do this, we pay you to do this


kinda simple eh? how about shoving the damned excuses into the nearest orifice and get to work

totally getting pissed off for being pissed on, my 140.00 dollars us per month wont break your budget, but it will come straight off the profits.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#862 - 2012-06-18 03:15:09 UTC
Gainard wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/error.htm?aspxerrorpath=/default.aspx is what I get when I try to post a link to the thread to what I believe to be the currently active thread. Even modifying the link text does not help. What sort of BS ia this? Evil

>Look for: "How should we improve the inventory UI?" , only 20 pages as of now.


That thread was started on Jan 24, 2012. I don't think it's being actively monitored by CCP devs at this point. There are a few good posts by pilots recently, but I suspect they're going to waste there.
Maraner
The Executioners
#863 - 2012-06-18 07:54:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Maraner
Broken is broken. This UI design is not fixable, the community is asking for the previous versions functionality to be returned - solution - roll back the UI and put the old one back.

Not gonna happen ofc because CCP can't learn from its mistakes.

CCP Zulu, are you out there? must be nice to know that your not alone in making ****** up decisions that wil lose you your job.

Wonder what Zulu does these days....
VLAD VIRONS
Evolve Xcellence
#864 - 2012-06-18 10:14:39 UTC
Login in, trying to find my ship, its missed, after finding it through assets re-contracting it to alt than back to main, hallelujah i have my ship to play with. Undocking to scan some sigs, gettting radar/magnetar sig, after unlocking/salvaging still fighting with UI, each time pop ups shipcargo window after i close wreck window, ah yea, ship do not approaching to object after salvaging/unlocking it. Ok fail here, boarding my spy vessel and going to missions hubs to get some wartargets blacklisted, fail here lol, 50 mill isk to wardec the BOT-Corp?(nice loots why not), (actualy in every mission hub is like 5-10-15-...bots).

Ook, login out and going to forum to check out your plans on fixing all that ****, haha guys r u serios? "Clothing and aurum additions for inferno 1.1" omg just no comments, so u r basicaly just ignore your current consumers?

have fun on new cosmosim, therefor im also joining ppl who unsubbed.
Amura Kadur
#865 - 2012-06-18 13:30:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Amura Kadur
3 unsubs. nothing more to say. they wont listen.

edit: patch 1.1 will not change anything. convinced myself on sisi.

All of my words are secondhand and useless in the face of this.
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#866 - 2012-06-18 14:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
My brothers, patch notes are out for tomorrow's inventory UI update, etc. Clearly, CCP can't be arsed to give an update to concerned and invested customers... Lead Producer guy CCP Unifex is even promoting Icarna avatar clothing (trolololol) in a separate blog. CCP's annual albatross is being swept under the rug, incredibly.

http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp

Inferno 1.1 Patch Notes wrote:
Unified Inventory

The tree view in the Inventory has been updated with unique icons to help identify different Inventory locations; this includes but is not limited to: all specialized ship bays, POS structures, Corporate hangar divisions and Member hangars, Active Ship and Station Delivery. The active ship now has a green background both in the tree view and window view. 
Increased the minimum scroll speed when navigating extremely long lists in the Unified Inventory tree view.
The "My filters" section of the Index tree in the Inventory will now remember if it has been collapsed. The collapsed state in station and in space are remembered separately.
Clarified the difference between the Primary main window and Secondary windows. All Secondary windows will now collect under a new location on the Neocom. The Inventory button will only be used for the Primary window.
The Primary Window is the Inventory window opened up from the Neocom button Inventory (ALT + C). This windows displayed contents will change based on the Inventory location a user has selected to view.
Secondary windows are those opened via SHIFT + Click (including via right contextual menu) that open up with their index tree view collapsed by default. These windows will remember their size, position, icon view state and stack based on their type and/or if they are unique.


And Bug Fixes:

Quote:
Unified Inventory

Fixed an issue where the inventory would not load and stall under a number of different circumstances.
Fixed an issue where items would get locked when dropped into a container, even if the container was set to Unlocked.
Fixed an issue where secondary windows would not close when moving out of range. Player Owned Structures, other player ship locations such as Ship Maintenance Bays, objects in space such as Containers and Wrecks will now close if open in a secondary window when moving off grid.
Changing the name of your ship will refresh Inventory windows with the new name.
Improved the performance when locking or unlocking a large number of items.
View mode and sort by are now persisted per window type. The primary window persists one set of values while every secondary window will persist its own set of values on a per window basis.
The option to Split Stack from the contextual menu when right clicking a stack in a Player Owned Structure has been removed. This option never functioned and should not have been displayed. Shift dragging stacks will still allow the user to separate stacks. The right click option should only be available in stations.
Fixed an issue where locked items would not display as locked when changing the view mode between icons, list and details in the Inventory window.
For ships with no bays, the label in the Inventory tree view has been updated to read "No additional bays" instead of "None".
Fixed an issue where “rubber band” and Ctrl+click selection would not update the item count and Est. price in the inventory window.
Fixed an issue where you could not copy table data from within the Inventory when viewing items in the list or details view.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#867 - 2012-06-18 14:45:56 UTC
Quote:
Increased the minimum scroll speed when navigating extremely long lists in the Unified Inventory tree view.


Hmm, doesn't that say more about why this is the wrong thing for containers, than it does about any fix?

I've been playing with it a bit on SiSi, and it seems *slightly* better, but still, I have to fight with it to get the right windows open.

Try opening one hanger, and then the tower, to transfer fuel. (Yes, I took the trouble to set up a tower on SiSi). Open hanger, open tower, oops, that's all one window, gotta select the other, hold down the shift key....

"primary" and "secondary" windows my ****bleeep****. This is a BAD IDEA to fix a BAD IDEA.
Rock Kicker
Full Bore Inc
#868 - 2012-06-18 15:24:05 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
My brothers, patch notes are out for tomorrow's inventory UI update, etc. Clearly, CCP can't be arsed to give an update to concerned and invested customers... Lead Producer guy CCP Unifex is even promoting Icarna avatar clothing (trolololol) in a separate blog. CCP's annual albatross is being swept under the rug, incredibly.

http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp


Since it looks like we get ignored, my 5 stay unsubbed. Good job CCP. We ask for some simple things to improve the inventory debacle to make us hardcore, dedicated players happy, and what do we get?

Barbie doll clothing.

Good thing I don't treat my customers like CCP does. I'd be begging for food on a street corner.

The new UniFUBAR Inventory.  Where Clickfest rules and Usability fails.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#869 - 2012-06-18 17:09:55 UTC
ZaBob wrote:
Quote:
Increased the minimum scroll speed when navigating extremely long lists in the Unified Inventory tree view.


Hmm, doesn't that say more about why this is the wrong thing for containers, than it does about any fix?

I've been playing with it a bit on SiSi, and it seems *slightly* better, but still, I have to fight with it to get the right windows open.

Try opening one hanger, and then the tower, to transfer fuel. (Yes, I took the trouble to set up a tower on SiSi). Open hanger, open tower, oops, that's all one window, gotta select the other, hold down the shift key....

"primary" and "secondary" windows my ****bleeep****. This is a BAD IDEA to fix a BAD IDEA.


This primary/secondary thing appears to have nothing to do with, well, much of anything important.

I reset my shortcuts so the inventory is on Alt-C -- and noticed an *immediate* loss of functionality.

If you make it Alt-Shift-C, it works better -- it opens an additional window. This has been hiding some horribleness for me.

With it on Alt-C, it won't open an additional window, it just toggles. Adding shift then does nothing at all.

Shift on the Inventory button doesn't get you an additional window, either. Can you say "UI consistency"? No, I didn't think you could. Practice.

I opened several Inventory windows, and stacked them nicely. Then I closed them.

Now I don't have any reasonable way to get them back up again. I do have UNREASONABLE ways (more later), and when I use those,they do remember their per-container position information and whether they were stacked with tabs, and whether they had the tree open. That part seems OK now.

But problem remains, we do not have direct access to THAT container THERE. We do not have direct access to the drone bays, fuel, or basically anything, except cargohold if we map a shortcut to it. (And the logical shortcut for that? Alt-C, which you've usurped).

It's quite unreasonable to have to switch to one one of my container windows, open the tree, shift-click to open the desired additional window, shift back to my now-damaged container window, repair it by closing the tree, and proceed to do whatever I used to be able to do after ONE CLICK.

It is a convoluted, time-consuming, thought-required process for something that used to be immediate and intuitive.

This puzzle-solving is neither fun nor helpful for new users.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#870 - 2012-06-18 18:02:52 UTC
ZaBob wrote:
ZaBob wrote:
Quote:
Increased the minimum scroll speed when navigating extremely long lists in the Unified Inventory tree view.


Hmm, doesn't that say more about why this is the wrong thing for containers, than it does about any fix?

I've been playing with it a bit on SiSi, and it seems *slightly* better, but still, I have to fight with it to get the right windows open.

Try opening one hanger, and then the tower, to transfer fuel. (Yes, I took the trouble to set up a tower on SiSi). Open hanger, open tower, oops, that's all one window, gotta select the other, hold down the shift key....

"primary" and "secondary" windows my ****bleeep****. This is a BAD IDEA to fix a BAD IDEA.


This primary/secondary thing appears to have nothing to do with, well, much of anything important.
...


Well, it's a little worse than that, actually. This primary/secondary thing actually just gets in the way.

Let's say you open up your cargohold, and position it nicely, then close it.

Now, execute the command to open up the cargohold (put it on a shortcut, say). Now, what happens depends on how you did the previous step. Did you open a primary or secondary window?

If you opened up your cargohold by starting with an inventory window, the WRONG THING happens.

This whole primary/secondary distinction has no basis in user model. It's also a bit of hidden state on the windows. It contributes nothing but confusion. Just get rid of it, give access to the *containers* in all the natural places -- right-click menus, the Selected Items window, hanger buttons, Neocom, etc. Remember the positions like you are now, but without the primary/secondary distinction.

Then do one thing, to replace the primary/secondary distinction: Provide an additional, "Inventory Overview" button, whose job it is to open a window, with tree open. This is your future replacement for the Assets window. If you shift-click it, it should open an ADDITIONAL one.

This is the button you push when you want to browse your stuff, rather than access a container. It's not going to be the most heavily-used thing, but it is definitely useful.

Oh, one thing about the assets window: I use that for navigation. Make sure you can still easily see what stations in the current system, region, and universe you have assets in.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#871 - 2012-06-18 18:07:19 UTC
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
My brothers, patch notes are out for tomorrow's inventory UI update, etc. Clearly, CCP can't be arsed to give an update to concerned and invested customers...


Worse, they're rushing stuff off of SiSi with no feedback.

Fortunately, I don't think they've actually made it worse; my impression overall is a very slight improvement in UI, and hopefully those bug fixes will help.

But it's not iterative development if you just proceed in steps WITH NO FEEDBACK.

There's no agility involved in rushing out the door and tripping over your shoelaces.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#872 - 2012-06-18 18:21:52 UTC
Actually... I gotta say, at first glance a lot of those fixes are welcome changes, and will make my life easier. Remember guys, we still have more fixes ahead of us after this patch.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#873 - 2012-06-18 19:38:03 UTC
Maul555 wrote:
Actually... I gotta say, at first glance a lot of those fixes are welcome changes, and will make my life easier. Remember guys, we still have more fixes ahead of us after this patch.


True. I think the changes ARE an improvement. They've clearly focused on performance, and the bug that's been getting people stuck, and that last in particular is important.

My concern is that if they haven't been engaging customers in feedback, it's going to really bite them (again) when they move onto the main UI stuff.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#874 - 2012-06-18 19:52:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Maul555
Although I am worried about the lack of information about right click menus regaining their options for opening different bays. This would be one if the simplest and most effective fixes for a lot of people. Maybe its in there tomorrow... I will just have to wait and see.

CCP seems to be in a love-hate relationship with right click menus. They have stated before that they do not like them. CCP needs to decide if it can engineer a replacement for them (UI is not it), and if not, then accept that they are needed, and give us our freaking options back!

Personally, I see nothing wrong with right click menus. They are intuitive and object based. right click on a ship, and get the ship options. its so simple. Why must they muddle it up?
Jules Deathbringer
Redemption or Retribution
#875 - 2012-06-19 01:26:50 UTC
im moving to diablo 3

fk ccp and thier ****** console shiet

7 accounts, anyone want my stuff?

/me craps on ccp
Maul555
Xen Investments
#876 - 2012-06-19 04:00:21 UTC
Jules Deathbringer wrote:
im moving to diablo 3

fk ccp and thier ****** console shiet

7 accounts, anyone want my stuff?

/me craps on ccp



Yes. I would like to have your stuff!
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#877 - 2012-06-19 08:11:38 UTC
The way to fix most of the issues is REALLY REALLY simple:


1. Bring back the buttons for Ships, Items, Corp hanger. Make these open in a separate windows with tree view minimised as default, and remember the position.

2. Bring back the right click options on ships for opening drone bay, cargo bay, ore hold, ship maintenance bay, fuel bay, corp hanger. Make these open in a separate windows with tree view minimised as default, and remember the position. It is REALLY not a bad thing to have right click options that improve functionality. Remove the redundant ones, like undock etc.

3. When in space, make the cargo icon open the cargo bay only (Cargo icon = cargo bay << simple). Make this open in a separate window with tree view minimised as default, and remember the position. If we want the inventory, we can use the icon in the Neocom, that’s what it is for (Inventory icon = inventory << again simple)

4. Give the option to hide the ISK value. It takes up space and is a gimmick that is only used rarely.

5. Reduce the size of the volume bar in containers back to what it used to be, it is too big and takes up space.


These are very simple fixes, which would go a long way to reducing the disgust and contempt people have for CCP at the moment, I cannot believe that they would be difficult to implement. So, please put your ego’s away and just do it.



Who the hell came up with this primary and secondary window idea ? For the love of God please wise up and just do what is necessary to make this somewhere near useable and not come up with these half assed ideas.
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#878 - 2012-06-19 11:27:09 UTC
CCP how fast forgot fixing after two weeks this horrible new UI. LOL

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=122819&find=unread
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#879 - 2012-06-19 11:39:40 UTC
Another issue -- when you have multiple hangers available, and you have a window open to one of them, AND IT IS A SECONDARY WINDOW -- it just says "GENERAL USE" (the name of our first hanger division).

PRIMARY windows, on the other hand -- actually give you the path to the container in question.

Of course, that's because what the primary window opens up to IS COMPLETELY ARBITRARY.

It's not sane. It's not the first one, it's not the last one opened to. I really haven't a clue why it picks the one it does. Maybe it's the one with the most stuff? I don't think it's the one closest.
ZaBob
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#880 - 2012-06-19 11:56:42 UTC
Helpful hint (on SiSi, anyway):

If you hit Escape to get to the Options menu, and select General Settings, and turn on Merge "Items" and "Ships" into Station Panel, you get the items and ships showing up on the station panel where you'd normally find agents, and other station occupants and the like.

This isn't really good, if you're a losec dweller who keeps an eye on who pops up in station with you. But it's less painful than the alternative.