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EVE Online: Inferno - Feedback thread

First post First post
Diamonica Norya
Pro Synergy
#1121 - 2012-06-08 12:37:09 UTC

Patch notes for EVE Online: Inferno 1.0.9
Fixed an issue where broken plastic wraps would cause the Inventory not to load.


Patch notes for EVE Online: Inferno 1.0.10
Fixed an issue where broken plastic wraps would cause the inventory not to load
Fixed an issue where corp members with query roles only would end up with a hanging inventory window if a container was present within a division.

Persistent Problem + Reproduction Steps + Workaround(dumb workaround):

I don't know what broken plastic wraps are, don't ask me
but for the above issue it hasn't been solved with inventory still refuse to load without me closing them before I close Eve and only to reopen them "each single time" I log in.

filed bug report, one says:
"we're already aware of this problem" - inconclusive

the other one says:
"This is not a programming issue and not likely an inventory issue, you should contact a GM about it" (ummm...inventory don't load with workaround in my original post having to directly messing with inventory and you are telling me that this is not an Inventory Issue and a GM can solve an inventory not loading/hanging when logging in problem for me? Doesn't sound logical to me)

CCP Goliath wrote:

Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way.

Thank you for telling us to suck it up (the way I read your reply). Seriously I don't mind the tree view not going away, but you need to iterate on the functionality of the tree view, a tree view that grows too big beyond manageable for certain portion of players, it is probably better to have the tree view able to be customized (ie, If I open a branch in a new window, the new window only displays all sub-branches under that branch...for instance, corp hangers, member hangers...etc.)
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1122 - 2012-06-08 13:09:44 UTC
Performance is improved.

Windows: object inheritance is still utterly borked.
- Windows still do not remember their positions.
- Windows do not behave as unique objects and still cross-inherit attributes from unrelated windows of a similar nature (or not).
- Similar windows (like wrecks) should/need to inherit "last position" - they don't.

This makes me think that there is no engineering specification to drive development, or if there is, nobody is following it. The picture originally painted for the Unified Inventory was (essentially) access to everything from anywhere. What we have now is not even close to the originally published specifications.

I have actually had my CEO (my main's corp) go to SiSi and set up the corp role for me to deploy a POS. I set up two POSes in two different null sec systems on SiSi with various POS mods to reach max power/cpu limits. I could not set up a jump array for my Thanatos cuz I don't have Sov.

Now I see what everyone is complaining about. Trying to manage a large number of buckets laid out in a linear descending tree is a royal PITA. Without the object inheritance fixed, managing large numbers of container type objects is NOT FUN - it is laborious, tedious, grueling, and represents the best definition of drudgery I've seen in a long time - for a game that is supposed to be fun. The "descending tree" is visually deficient, therefore, unintuitive, as we humans are visual creatures. Using the descending tree format is akin to playing 3D chess without a visual representation of board in front of you. Far too abstract, and insufficiently visual to be in line with human usage patterns.

The repairs so far feel like a version of "Trickle Down Theory". I do apologize for any lack of sympathy for how hard these fixes are. But you fine people created this mess on your own by boldly ignoring the reports from SiSi tests that I and many others posted.
Optimo Sebiestor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1123 - 2012-06-08 13:16:47 UTC
Still doubleklicking a can inside random ship while docked, opens your active ships cargo?? Roll
Joe Astor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1124 - 2012-06-09 15:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Astor
Robert Caldera wrote:
the inventory UI is simply fuqed up with no end in sight.

this makes me raging and hating everytime I have to deal with it.
At some point I wont play this game anymore because it annoys me too much with all possible and impossible cr*p.
I am already playing tribes much more and hardly log in eve.

I can't see any effective way to use my Capital with this Unified Inventory on my my Caps will stay docked/logged out til the Unified Inventory is rolled back to the system we had, that worked...or it works in a similar fashion to the old system.
#1125 - 2012-06-09 22:18:50 UTC
Hello hello,

it's time for a new bump...
Bring us the old inventory windows back, please.
Gallente Federation
#1126 - 2012-06-10 22:56:19 UTC
EarthZone wrote:
Hello hello,

it's time for a new bump...
Bring us the old inventory windows back, please.

i 2ed this
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
#1127 - 2012-06-11 04:40:08 UTC
Part 1 of 2:

I have been patiently and continually filing bug reports and posting usablely outlined "Issues" and "Feedback" for 3 weeks, and I have now compiled a list of THANK YOUs ... and ... REMAINING/NEW ISSUES (as of Inferno 1.0.10):


- TOO LONG "TAB" NAMES: ** FIXED! Thank you!
- LAG: Trading/Job Delivering/Moving Massive Amounts/Stacking All/Selling Items: ** FIXED! Thank you! ...Though you do have several other new lag issues (see below)
- MORE TIME-CONSUMING: ** Well.... not quite there, but it's much better. ESPECIALLY "ISK Estimation" not causing noticable lag. Thank you. Please don't stop... (read onward)


- "Nothing Found" REMAINS IN ALL UI WINDOWS' CONTENT BACKGROUNDS AND TRADE WINDOW BACKGROUNDS (when any opened hangar, container, deliveries window, cargohold, etc): If an EMPTY Unified Inventory window of any kind is opened, anything you place into the window(s) remains with the "Nothing Found" words in the background of each window. I'm sensing a theme of this error as I write this...

(see screenshot)

- CHANGING CORP WALLET DIVISIONS: ...STILL takes 10+ seconds each time it is changed.

- INITIAL LOGGING IN TO GAME HAS MASSIVE "SPINNING WHEELS" LAG: It appears if there are several windows open (i.e., Station Inventory, Ship Cargohold, Corporate Hangar(s), Ship Inventory, Deliveries, for example) then it takes 15-45+ seconds for the game to load up all inventory (or lack of) in each remembered-window opened from previous logge din session... thus the appearance of the "spinning wheel of waiting"... Sometimes sufferably.

- "SPINNING WHEELS" ALSO OCCURS WHEN DOCKING INTO A NEW STATION (as above bug): This is especially noticable when docking with a new station that has another corporate office of own corp. THIS HAS BEEN MENTIONED BY MY OWN MINERS AS: A "HINDERENCE" to (what used to be) a quick "mine-dock-dump ore-undock" procedure. (This obviously has reduced mining by up to 75% if a corp member is continually docking with a corp-office-station. To "lessen" this lag, miners have reported that mining and docking-dumping-undocking at NON-CORP OCCUPIED stations help "lessen" this lag, but is ultimately cumbersome to massively haul final mined ore to a corporate-office station in the end.

- "SHIFT-CLICK" STILL DOES NOT OPEN ANY CONTAINERS IN ANY UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOW: It's ridiculous for me to not use a shortcut that, though worked last week, doesn't now. NOW, I have to "expand" an existing window to see the "TREE"... and then adjust its width so that I can read all the "too far inset to the right" containers in hangars... then right click and select "Open in new window"... then compress the pointlessly narrow "tree exposure". Too many steps for something that could easily be solved simply by DOUBLE-CLICKING the container and have it open in a new window... or a new tab. **Unaddressed since my notation on June 3.

- LACK OF VISIBLE "ROW" DIVIDING LINES IN ALL "UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOWS": Take a look at the market listings, or the listings of the Science & Industry wndows... ALL ITEMS HAVE VISIBLE ROW LINES. The Unified Inventory windows all lack those lines. Oh, sure, they're there... AT 10% OPACITY. ** Unaddressed since my notation May 24. HIGHLY needed!

(see screenshot)

...AND because your rows lack lines (when not using any icon-type listing), a person may need to use the mouse pointer to "highlight" and item and its contents... SADLY, when this happens, a window pops up and obstructs what I'm trying to see. This has been noted since May 24 verbatim as:

- "POP UP" INFORMATION IS UNNECESSARY AND BLOCKING MY VIEW: ** This is VERY annoying and unchanged since May 24. When hovering my mouse over an item in hangar, it sometimes is because I'm comparing the quantities of it to another item a few lines above it (especially since there are no visible dividing row lines in LIST mode). SADLY I CANNOT "SEE" anything in those spots (whether name or quantity, etc) being covered by by "estimated prices for both unit price and stack price... in the "compact line-by-line listing mode" (which I use because, well, as you may have seen, my screen has a lot of stuff to look at all at once), this is literally making my tasks more of a pain.

(see screenshot)

- EXISTING WINDOWS IN SPACE DO NOT CLOSE WHEN NOT PRESENT: Currently, secure/loot containers in space, POS containers/hangars/modules, Planetary Customs Office windows stay open, even when warping away from them. IN SOME INSTANCES, the existing open windows get "compressed"/"shoved" into the area of where one's own ship's cargohold UI window is.

- CORPORATE TAXATION IS NOT FUNCTIONING: Several members (for example) of my own corporation have noticed that JUST BEFORE AND AFTER Inferno was "released", certain members' mission rewards, bounties, etc (that appear as taxable ISK which is taken from corp member wallets and deposited into the corp's Master wallet) IS NO LONGER FUNCTIONING. [This has been reported with no response.]

- BRACKETS AND LOWERCASE "TAILED" LETTERS ARE TOO LOW - INTERFERING WITH CHAT WINDOW's TOP LINE VS. EXISTING BAS: The brackets and the tail lowercase letters "q,y,p,g,j" and brackets (i.e. "Local [36]"), all extend BELOW the line of the tabs and the current/"foremost" open chat window borderlines... [Bug Report #135869]

(see screenshot)

CLIENT: Windows XP Pro SP3
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
#1128 - 2012-06-11 04:40:18 UTC
Part 2 of 2:


- PLEASE MAKE "ISK-CALCULATING/EST" VALUES "OPTIONAL": ** Still not publicly addressed: It's really frustrating. Personally, with price estimation and such, that's one of my corporate jobs. THOUGH NOW ITS LAG IS NOT AN ISSUE - ITS TAKING UP SCREEN SPACE... and by the way, "honestly, your price estimations are 50% terribly wrong". I work (play?) in EVE mainly with items of value.
I WILL AGREE, THOUGH: For some people, especially non-industrialists and new players, this may be helpful for those players, BUT PLEASE MAKE IT AN OPTION: IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE.

- PLEASE ALLOW "ROLLOVER NAMES" FOR ITEMS PARTIALLY VISIBLE IN EXPOSED TREE SECTION OF ANY UNIFIED UI WINDOW: This is something that is quite opposite of ALL other "mouseover" behaviors in the game. I can rollover anything, and its full name (or too much information, like costs of items, etc) will always appear... UNTIL I hover over ANYTHING partially exposed in the "narrow TREE view". This is LESS PRODUCTIVE since I have to not only expand to view the "TREE", but I have to then grab the axpansion divider atop and DRAG IT to the right to be able to read ALL my containers inside hangars inside "CORPORATION". EXAMPLE: In my corp, all containers are named ">> INSERT NAME HERE" to help with alphabetization/organization/ease of discernation. However if we have 10 containers in a Corporate hangar, the "opened TREE view" lists it like this:

>> [line]
>> [line]
>> [line]

So instead of having to drag open the "TREE exposure" column more, if I could see a "pop up/mouse-over" name of the container I can PARTIALLY see, then I can open up the container much more quickly without additional movement and dragging.

- IF YOU DOUBLE-CLICK a place you would like to open, PLEASE MAKE IT AUTOMATICALLY FORCE OPEN in a NEW window. OR GIVE US THE OPTION TO MAKE "DOUBLE-CLICKING" A CONTAINER PERFORM THIS TASK... Because, as we are ALL so used to double-clicking to open a new tab. But NOW, if we do double-click anything, we're stuck with a new window in the same window were in that we can't GO BACK from. This is ridiculously time-consuming. ** This issue/feedback has been noted since May 24.

...AND YES: I have cleared my Cache and reset my Settings more times in the past 3 weeks than I regularly have since January 2012.

So please, when I file a bug report, can someone mention to the Bug Report Responders to include MORE "possible" information than simply "Please try clearing you cache and resetting your settings. If the issue persists, please reopen your report. Thank you."

CLIENT: Windows XP Pro SP3
Decidivus Jones
Harriman Trust
#1129 - 2012-06-13 03:30:08 UTC
I can't take it anymore. I'm joining the ranks of those leaving Eve. Don't know how much my absence will affect CCP, as I've been using PLEX rather than subscribing, but I refuse to waste any more time on this stupid inventory system - it's taken most of the fun out of the game.


Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1130 - 2012-06-13 09:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
CCP has to think about it, why it was necessary to bring out two new forum rules.
Sure the hate and upcoming increased personal attack on CCP employees is not tolerable. But at least obvious. It is not so, that the majority of the eve community is upset because CCP did a good job or listened to the customer. It is because they force unwanted and unfinished things that where far away from ANY usability or improvement and completely ignore ALL customers who pays to play the game and do not want to test it; or being unable to play the game any longer because of this absolute terrible UI. It is a fact that barely one loves this UI. Have a look at all the different threads in the forum. (If you are able to find all of them.)

As it is now: CCP denies every statement what they will do in the FUTURE. They only let us know little things about the next week. What comes next month? What will you bring MORE to improve the UI? Just “Improvements” and “Listened feedback” is not enough to calm down the player base who don’t like the unified inventory.
I had a small “conversation” with two CCP’s in another thread. And not surprisingly; all I got was nothing constructive from them. I can not write or link the comments from them because they are deleted and a reconstruction from my memory would not give a proper picture.

So I would really suggest to bring a information website where all interested people can have a look at the planned changes for this UI. I, and perhaps many others, do not need a tight fit high-tech masterplan with all details and the correct time frame.
Just a list with all ideas which will come back to this UI. And an explanation why something will not come back. Denial of a right click menu or an icon at the NeoCom would be not a good idea. It would be easy to implement and would help players. Why deny this changes? That makes no sense.

The DEV’s and CCP’s are under enormous pressure. But its not the fault of the paying customer. Its CCP’s and its release dogma fault. So please stop forcing and do not ban people because they feel ignored from you and want a statement from you. Say something more than just empty phrases like “Improvements” and so on. WHAT exact do you plan? Why do you not rebuild (I want not a roll back) the old UI and degrade this unified UI to the asset window as many others asked?

I do not like your filters. WHY? I have containers which I can not access with this current UI.
I do not like the est. price calculation. It is always wrong, not useable and causes lag and calculation time.
I do not like to have elements into one window that doesn’t belong together.
I do not like to have more shortcuts or SHIFT+X solutions to have my windows back!
I just want double clicks and right click options and icons in the NeoCom. (without any shift)

Think about it and please react. Someone in the forum stated “Please stop beginning your DevBlogs with ‘Hello Spacefriends’. At this point we are no friends anymore.”
This alone should show the mood of many players at present.
Continue to act as you do since 22.05.2012 and EVE will possibly not reach the 10th anniversary.

CCP is your company; EVE is your child; but without enough customers you can not pay your bills and employ your people or develop the game. I am at the point where EVE has no fun for me anymore. Sadly- but it is the hard fact.

Callidus Dux
(no gameplay since 22.05.2012)
#1131 - 2012-06-14 16:57:10 UTC
EarthZone wrote:
Hello hello,

it's time for a new bump...
Bring us the old inventory windows back, please.

EarthZone's Account expires in 7 days, others a few days later.

Depending on the following updates, if i stay in EVE Online or not.
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1132 - 2012-06-14 19:01:51 UTC
Please give the option to use the old hanger/ship items!!!

Everyone says it takes getting use to, but really i think the old item way is better.

If you are in a carrier it makes it a pain to refit in space, and refuel with the new system.

Corp hanger was much easier to access prior to update.

If CCP likes it. Then they can keep it, but give a option to the many people who do not like the inventory to go back to normal.

Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1133 - 2012-06-14 21:16:06 UTC
I commented earlier that CCP will be waiting for member complaints to die down then ccp will consider this crap of a patch in full working order, well member complaints has died off and ccp are once again patting them selves on the back saying what a wonderful job they did.


Even with the handful of people un-subing eve, ccp will remain on this destructive course. Hilmar Pétursson has a vision and to hell with us all he will achieve HIS vision.

We the members have the power to change eve to what we want BUT unless WE ALL stick together then ccp will continue doing what they want. So unless this happens then there is really no point writing your complaints in this forum any-longer. CCP has won, the new improved unified inventory is here to stay - GET USE TO IT

Joe Astor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1134 - 2012-06-16 01:08:30 UTC
I don't really like the Unified Inventory as it is, perhaps I'm just not used to it.

I think Open Fuel Bay context menu options need to be bought back into the game (no doubt many have already mentioned this)

UI makes it cumbersome for me to fly my Carrier, having to open so many windows and nagivate them all to the tabs/cargoholds/etc I want them to be on.

On the other hand, I haven't been playing terribly much due to work and I noticed last night the new Nemesis design.
Sexy doesn't even begin to describe it. Awesome work on that front, CCP.
Thaddeus Rees
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1135 - 2012-06-16 13:39:21 UTC
So far, I must say I am Loving factional warfare.

There are a couple of issues I hope can be resolved in the future however...

As gallente when I run offensive plexes or missions against caldari, I have to swap out my pvp fit merlin for a ship with lots of kinetic resistance mods and a shield booster...
I can't just speed tank the way amarr, minimatar, and caldari pilots do because of missile spam.

This means that inevitably if an enemy comes into system and chases me out of a plex I'm going to run and not fight...

It seems that we in the federal defence union are at a disadvantage because we are the only militia that face an NPC enemy that cannot be speed tanked.
I don't know How you can balance this, but I certainly hope you find a way ;)
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1136 - 2012-06-16 13:59:35 UTC
mjgvjbk wrote:
I commented earlier that CCP will be waiting for member complaints to die down then ccp will consider this crap of a patch in full working order, well member complaints has died off and ccp are once again patting them selves on the back saying what a wonderful job they did.


Even with the handful of people un-subing eve, ccp will remain on this destructive course. Hilmar Pétursson has a vision and to hell with us all he will achieve HIS vision.

We the members have the power to change eve to what we want BUT unless WE ALL stick together then ccp will continue doing what they want. So unless this happens then there is really no point writing your complaints in this forum any-longer. CCP has won, the new improved unified inventory is here to stay - GET USE TO IT


I'm staying for one simple reason: If everyone who hates the UI unsubscribes, then no one will be left to *****.

Plus, I'm merely a miner, so my opinion doesn't matter anyway.

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst

Tara Stargazer
#1137 - 2012-06-17 04:14:56 UTC
Ok, i'll try to remain calm.
I had put about half an hour of well thought comments into a post that this forum somehow lost when i hit preview.
Fxxxing furious doesn't even begin to cover how i feel now that its lost.
In addition if it were not for this fxxxed UI i wouldn't even be here.

Anyway, in summary...

I have 2 accounts, 1 month each left, then i'm outta here...
It might be a good idea for EvE to E-Mail changelog detail as i won't be ingame anymore to see it.

A few points, this by no means covers all of the many issues introduced.

  1. Windows stealing focus in UI - Whilst typing the (now lost) message i was doing a 30 jump collection of items i'd bought arounf the region. at each station the Inventory window opened over the web browser only to show the 'wheels of waiting'
  2. I then re-selected the InGameBrowser and continued my post until the Inventory popped up again ready (min sentance).

  3. The time it takes for the Invnetory to load, againg going station to station i am finging this increasingly horrid

  4. Inabaility to properly seperate inventory whilst maintaining full usability.
  5. I seperate items as follows...
    Root :: Consumables :: Resources :: Crap

    I keep my day to day modules etc in root, and i can re-package and stack them as i fit and unfit to keep all neat and tidy.
    I cannot however do this inside a station container.
    Also from time ot time i re-process or sell buildup fromthe Crap container, but i cannot do it directly from within the container, and instead it must me moved to root, where it ends up mixed with my main modules and i have to pick through it.

(item 3 was an issue before the new UI, and frankly something that deserve more attention tham a new UI, it has caused non stop annoyance since i began to play)
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1138 - 2012-06-17 06:15:40 UTC
I hope the June 19 patch fixes the stupidly asinine "perma spinning" bug, because I am about to unsub 4 accounts.

I just cannot be bothered to log in my alts with 3 items in hanger, get perma spinning "hang everything" animation and have to log them off and on again up to 7 (SEVEN!) times each.

1 account in particular, just DIED, even relogging 50 times it stays stuck at spinning. Yes I deleted the ***** cache.

Also, it shows your UI coding is TERRIBLE. I thought single thread UI windowing died with Windows 3.1. I was wrong, there's still *1* product in the world where hanging 1 window means everything it's stuck till shutdown. That product is EvE.
David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1139 - 2012-06-19 12:02:54 UTC  |  Edited by: David Toviyah
The only problems that I have run into after my first 30 days of playing are some graphics glitches and the occasional “socket closed” error. While annoying they certainly don’t keep me from enjoying this otherwise great game. It seems to me as though many of the nigglers in here are just complaining for the sake of complaining. Alas, it is this vocal minority that keeps CCP from enriching EVE with changes like the ones intended in Incarna by fighting them every inch of the way. For shame!
Mr Bimble
Lost Ark Enterprises
#1140 - 2012-06-20 09:21:22 UTC
OK third attempt now.Even the forum posting system as well as the ui hates me.
Since yesterdays fix it now contains more bugs.Is still slow,contains useless information,the worth of modules if sold.
I don't run a pos and atm I'm grateful I don't.Just a corp hangar in a station is a pain in the arse.Loot a wreck and my cargo hold opens,why?I can only think its done to annoy me.I did read that this was a bug and would be fixed.It appears not.
Perhaps its so hard reading so many complaints and bug reports. After every update a few days is neede for the system to settle down and problems to be ironed out.This has to be the worst in four years.
I'm going to go and find a nice quiet corner and cry for a couple of hours.After which I'm sure I'll feel better.A better solution than any ccp have come up with.Big smile