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These changes aren't adequate to resolve the problems with the current system, but they are (just barely) better than nothing.

You still have the problem of the total cost to declare a war being multiplied by 1+ the number of active wars you have, so if you declare a war against a 5 man corp for 50 million it then costs you 1 billion to declare war on an 8000 man alliance, but if you declare war on the 500 man alliance first it costs you 500 million and the 5 man corp costs 100 million. (I **** you not this is a real thing).

Also because it's still much, much cheaper and considerably less risky to join wars as a defender than it is to declare your own wars people will straight up pay the bill for the defender to join their wars. Unless you bring up the cost for multiple allies to be in 50 million increments that's going to keep happening.

So you are complaining about the fact that you got wardecced ... your CEO asked for allies and you got allies? If you wanted to keep the war small why didn't you just well ... NOT ask for allies?

In addition of course the change I have proposed widely (and in the EveNews24 article you link) would solve this problem because as the larger defending ally you couldn't add ANY allies for free and you'd need to pay on the same principle as the 1.1 patch (only with a more sensible free structure.)

I like how everyone acts like the goons have brought 8000 people to fight in high sec and it requires a united high sec to stop them.

In reality there aren't more than 50-100 of them fighting in high sec, and if you guys really think that you need 9000 people to make things "fair" then I think you drastically overestimate the goons or underestimate yourselves.

Also, these changes obviously hurt the goons more than anyone else. Before this change, they only have to pay to wardec a few high sec alliances and then they still get to go to war with most of high sec. After the change, they are going to have to pay for a lot more wardecs to achieve the same results, since their enemies will not be able to recruit as many allies. It seems pretty clear to me that the goon wardec budget (which is almost insignificant compared to the things that they actually spend isk on) is the real victim here.

CCP you still haven't answered the issue that I have pointed out here.


How come Goons only have to pay 50 million to wardec a small corp, but it costs the small corp 500 million to wardec Goons.

I hear what you are saying.

But the timing and technique of the fix were inauspicious -- the fix created fertile soil for rumors, soil that people like Jade are tilling to their own benefit. We gamers lurve conspiracy theories, and the whole theory that "GSF & TEST / PL / -A- / SLR.C / other huge alliances have CCP on speed dial" feeds right into that (don't ask me why -RZR- or FA don't inspire the same feel even though they're a third the size of GSF, and FA works closely with them, I don't know). The fix played into the hands of anyone looking for a reason to feel disenfranchised. And that fustrates me and makes me angry.

TBH, I do have a selfish agenda:
I want to lengthen the cycle from nooblet to bittervet, and I want to lure a couple of dozen friends back to EVE. My mains' corps did flicker back to life earlier this year but now everyone's dropped away again and my friends' lists are ghost towns; my best friend just cancelled her account for the first time in her four or five years in EVE. They were pretty much mostly bittervets with past experience in NPC and sov null sec, but who no longer had time for null. None were affected by war decs lately. But all were affected by disillusionment with how they think CCP views players outside the big alliances (I even had one of them chatting my ear off last night about how he thought that CCP had forgotten that most players were outside the big alliances).

Anyhow, that's why I don't like the fix. It was done in a way that makes my favorite game and game company look bad.

QFT.... as I said earlier, CCP has a very bad habit of shooting themselves in various body parts.

Because it works against your rhetoric that forming a large coalition of allies is "emergent" and a "good thing in a sandbox" when the reality is your allies were allies with everyone, (including, ironically, working against some of the people who were also working for you) simply because they just want more red haulers and it has nothing to do with making it easier to create a large ally pool to take on all 50 highsec Goons.



How is quoting the cost of wardecing just one, out of the thousands, of alliances in EvE relevant to how the system should work as a whole?

Counterpoint: it now costs a large alliance 10x more to declare war on another large alliance; how is this important?



Because we knew the system was broken from it's inception on Sisi, so we used the ally system to troll the guys who were deccing us, rather than bothering to go to highsec and fight them. Most people were (still are) abusing the **** out of the dogpiles to render any outgoing wardec meaningless.

Does nothing right at all since it is a proposal to make wardecs always "equal numbers vs equal numbers" which, as has been explained to you dozens of times over countless blogs and forum posts, is not what wardecs are about.

You can, if you want, equal the numbers (perhaps by getting some people who actually don't like GSF together and doing something about it), but allowing automatic and free dogpiling up-to equal numbers is STILL dogpiling and is still completely stupid.

Once more, I will agree that in the situation of Large alliance vs small entity your proposal isn't bad, but as has ALSO been said to you over and over the game shouldn't be balanced on "Jade's war" but on how war should look across all of New Eden, because your solution, not surprisingly, only benefits you.

You also, at some point, need to accept that running your mouth off about an entity that is 90 times your size is going to result in repercussions, (sandbox 'n' all) and you shouldn't be expecting CCP to patch in changes that help you get out of it for free.

I think you need some perspective here, bud. 10B isk in ship (referring to the GSF vs Star Fraction "war") damage is less than the cost of a single super. I've seen many nullsec battles where a lot more isk that that is destroyed without batting an eye, so please stop with the self important nonsense about 10B isk breaking GSF and causing them to batphone CCP.

You beat the 50 goons living in high sec. You are free to call that winning (I certainly would and don't blame you for that). Consider this though, what if the Goons had a button that enabled them to wardec all of high sec? If you think for one second that they wouldn't press it you obviously are dumber than your "GOONS DID 9/11" stuff makes you seem.

Agh, this being released on the 19th?

Wow talk about rushed. There was little time for discussion, let alone changes based on feedback, even when the changes were first announcemenced on SiSi forums.

Disappointing.

That was answered by Soundwave, who pointed out that the logic of paying to shoot people means that the more you have the option to shoot, the more you need to pay.