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Establishments in Winter 2011 Expansion, yes or no?

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LawlSTi
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2011-10-06 18:15:04 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.



That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.



See yah!
Grateler
People's Front of Offugen
#42 - 2011-10-06 18:15:21 UTC
Mystic5hadow wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Mystic5hadow wrote:
I just found that the fact they said Establishments were coming this expansion, then them not appearing on that list, was kind of odd. You'd think something that was promised is coming would already be on that list.




You do know how long us oldtimers waited on WIS while it was promised to come soontm?I'd think next summer earliest to expect any big new content to the WIS so keep your hopes low is my advice , if you can't enjoy eve without the WIS then you've joined the wrong game imho.IT's there as a sideshow for the main game.


I've only been waiting since 2008, it's not that I can't enjoy EVE without it, it's the fact that CCP always promises stuff then doesn't deliver. Now it was just the ultimate tease to me, as Incarna is something I'm really excited for, they kept saying that Establishments are coming this Winter, we already have CQ teasing us, and now it seems CCP has dropped Establishment from this Winter. Which, for all I know, may not be the case as we all know CCP isn't very good at being clear about everything, but if that is the case then I am severely disappointed.
It's the solitary thing I have been waiting for, the rest has just been bonuses to me, and now that it seemed it was finally arriving.. CCP decides to focus on the stuff those-with-the-loudest-mouths (or clickiest-keys? I dunno, lol) complained about.

I will always love EVE, regardless if Establishments come this Winter or not. Though I may be disappointed if they aren't coming any time soon, I will still play and enjoy EVE... Unless they pull this again, then I dunno, I'd probably be really pissed by then.


The majority of complaints recently have been because people dont want Incarna and want CCP to concentrate on spaceships.

The reality is that all this work on Incarna was going to result in very little gameplay, all Ive heard is smuggling and gambling, both of which seem to be minigames at best.

As confirmed above it wont be appearing anytime soon which is good news as I just dont see what it would have added and when the door opened and there was little to do there would have been further justified uproar.
Written Word
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2011-10-06 18:15:49 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.


You put those last two dev blogs in perspective. Thank you.

You didn't say you would focus on spaceships because you love your customers and value their feedback, you said it because your walking in stations project is a complete and utter disaster
KhaelaMensha Khaine
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2011-10-06 18:16:13 UTC  |  Edited by: KhaelaMensha Khaine
Written Word wrote:
You didn't say you would focus on spaceships because you love your customers and value their feedback, you said it because your walking in stations project is a complete and utter disaster


Actually Hellmar said BOTH. Why do people want to hate on CCP for ANY reason whatsover? Do you think it's cool. They messed up big time and they've admitted it - which is rare enough - so why don't you accept the apology in the spirit it was given.

Some people are never happy.


Mystic5hadow wrote:
The idea of Incarna (WiS at the time.) is what got me into EVE.


There's your problem right there. You started playing based on the promise of future gameplay rather than the actual current gameplay. Here's a tip - don't play a game unless you enjoy it 'as it is'.

Incarna will hopefully add a lot to EvE but we don't want it (and frankly we don't need it) until "it's done". If you and the other WIS fanbois can't handle that then well - you know where the door is. :)
Grateler
People's Front of Offugen
#45 - 2011-10-06 18:16:37 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.



That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.


Lol, why cancel over functionality that has never existed and would have added nothing to the game ?!
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#46 - 2011-10-06 18:18:32 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.

+1 good decision. improve first, extend later.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#47 - 2011-10-06 18:20:11 UTC
I think a lot of people were looking forward to establishments because they were such a blank canvas, and people saw in them whatever features they wanted to see. We (both CSM and the public) certainly never saw any details on the actual *gameplay* that they were going to provide, so everyone naturally assumed their favorite pet feature would be present.

I'd like to see a concrete proposal from CCP on what sort of *fun* we will have in Establishments before they make it into the game.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Callic Veratar
#48 - 2011-10-06 18:20:17 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.


It would be nice if the framework for the shared player areas could be put on Sisi for the purpose of testing sooner, rather than later, so performance issues could be ironed out closer to the beginning than the end (or a couple weeks after patch day).

I can easily see how it would be hard to make a shared area "fun". Just look at early PSHome for what Establishments could be if they're done wrong. A slow mess that offers nothing to anyone besides a small core of die-hards that convince themselves it's awesome. Beyond that, segment the docked players between the 10k+ stations in universe and they're not going to be any fun.
iNfeck7ed
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2011-10-06 18:21:46 UTC
CCP actually learned its lesson and is not going to rush through crappy establishment expansions. Meanwhile, it has given us a template of fixes it will be working on for winter such as hybrid rebalancing, FW changes, sov mech changes, assault frig bonus fix, etc, as described in the recent devs. These are way more important so just sit tight. If you feel the need to walk your avatar, go play WoW and come back when WIS is fully launched. I'll light a cyno for you when it's here.
Razin
The Scope
#50 - 2011-10-06 18:23:40 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

I think this is an excellent approach to any new content; glad to see that Incarna will not be an exception.

I'll be looking forward to when Incarna is expanded beyond CQs with features that contain compelling gameplay that aligns well with existing EVE mechanics and philosophy.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#51 - 2011-10-06 18:23:57 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.



That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.


In contrast, I was in such a good mood after the devblogs yesterday I paid up 2 accounts for a full year each, even though I could comfortably PLEX them.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

KhaelaMensha Khaine
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2011-10-06 18:24:33 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.


DickbeardThePirate wrote:
If you're more concerned about not getting WiS content then you are pleased by the promise of FiS improvements, I would like to kindly ask you to get out.
Grateler
People's Front of Offugen
#53 - 2011-10-06 18:28:04 UTC
Two step wrote:
I think a lot of people were looking forward to establishments because they were such a blank canvas, and people saw in them whatever features they wanted to see. We (both CSM and the public) certainly never saw any details on the actual *gameplay* that they were going to provide, so everyone naturally assumed their favorite pet feature would be present.

I'd like to see a concrete proposal from CCP on what sort of *fun* we will have in Establishments before they make it into the game.


Indeed.

I dont see establishments giving 99% of people any reason to leave through the door. It would be turned off by most and ignored, so why waste time developing it until theres a good reason to ?

Gambling is a minigame, smuggling sounds like a concept at best and I wonder exactly how much fun that could be, surely it would just be walking to an avatar and back to ship ?

As you say until there are actual good reasons to walk around a station then Id rather resources spent where actual gameplay will benefit.

Id love to hear genuine reasons why these people are quitting because WiS has been put on the backbburner, other than it was "promised" as with the pointlessness of it thats a promise worth breaking.
Di Mulle
#54 - 2011-10-06 18:28:33 UTC
Two step wrote:
I think a lot of people were looking forward to establishments because they were such a blank canvas, and people saw in them whatever features they wanted to see. We (both CSM and the public) certainly never saw any details on the actual *gameplay* that they were going to provide, so everyone naturally assumed their favorite pet feature would be present.

I'd like to see a concrete proposal from CCP on what sort of *fun* we will have in Establishments before they make it into the game.


So much QFT.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
SilentSkills
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2011-10-06 18:29:21 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:


That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.


give me your aurum ms. barbie
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2011-10-06 18:30:19 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.

Sounds like a good plan.

No dates and big bomb somewhere in the future is better than plenty of promises and no bomb :) You know that it is ready when you find all your co workers playing wis instead of doing any work.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2011-10-06 18:30:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Elanor Vega
i see this "there will not be establishment anytime soon" as "we finished first step of development of WoD technology" and "you will not get anything of it because you are test hamsters" and "when we finish all for WoD then you (maybe) will get some crumbs of that technology"

in one opinion... too much development time spent to give us one big NOTHING... and you said to us that you don't want to limit yourself in some time period to give us something of that technology... so... we are back at the beginning of "incarna story" many years ago... and this was not 18 months... this was many years old story and counting...

just a humble opinion...
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#58 - 2011-10-06 18:30:45 UTC
People do not seem to understand the scope and the amount of hardware it will take to make a multiplayer environement for Incarna in stations.


How many people are docked at jita 4-4 on a regular basis, or in rens or dodixie or amarr? How much server power do you think this will take? It will be a lot. 4-4 alone will probably have its own server. CCP is making the right move, fix the spaceships, get all the lost accounts and players back. Once that is done and people are happy again, then move full speed ahead to multiplayer in stations.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Raid'En
#59 - 2011-10-06 18:36:27 UTC
it's obvious they can't give both establishments + the fixes we need on the same extension.
and given we weren't even sure they could give these establishments this soon, i prefer to be sure we will have the fixes.
establishment can wait. as they said anyway, they need to work on the performance issue before releasing them.

two step is right also ; we don't really know what will be on it, so our opinion may be very different from each other.
i'm curious to see what multiplayer incarna really is, but well if i have to choose between lots of stuff i really like for spaceships, and some unknown multiplayer incarna, my choice is quickly made.

Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.

can i have your stuff ?
Grateler
People's Front of Offugen
#60 - 2011-10-06 18:44:06 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
People do not seem to understand the scope and the amount of hardware it will take to make a multiplayer environement for Incarna in stations.


How many people are docked at jita 4-4 on a regular basis, or in rens or dodixie or amarr? How much server power do you think this will take? It will be a lot. 4-4 alone will probably have its own server. CCP is making the right move, fix the spaceships, get all the lost accounts and players back. Once that is done and people are happy again, then move full speed ahead to multiplayer in stations.


Even if the technology is there, what would people do !?

/dance ?
/poke ?

Seems like a lot of development for not much gameplay.