Warfare & Tactics

Assuming your analysis is correct, then everyone is going to have better pvp opportunities with this removed ewar. In fact, you'll have better rats on your side (100k+ missile spam vs the guns that miss), and according to you the caldari will benefit more from this change than the gallente.

So why are you complaining?

Alright, I thought you were complaining about the upcoming changes removing all ewar.

Well, we do disagree on pre-ewar removal rats (with damps I can still fly close range boats, not so with ECM). But that's a moot point since all ewar is now getting removed.

The great thing about plexes is they let you "choose" the fight you want to a certain degree by picking the plex you run & the ship you run it in. If you choose to run a plex in a ship that can't kill the NPC's then you are making a decisions to run from the fight before the fight ever comes to you.

I think the problem here is that people expect to have their cake and eat it to while being able to fly sub par ships for the job at hand. (ie most of guys complaining just want to farm plexes not actually fight)

The other night I was bored.. I decided I wanted to go dual box my two Drakes. I went to Nennamaila and I popped open a major plex to pick a fight in Gals home system. I shot the NPC's as they spawned and got some PVP mid way through killed 2 BC's played patty cake with their reinforcements and was ran off with about 2 mins on the timer.

IMO that was a successful plex run and I used the plex for it's intended purpose. I picked the ship(s) I wanted to fly, went to a busy system and used the plex mechanics to pick a fight.

People that are bitching and moaning that they can't run a major plex are quite simply just complaining because they can't easily play farmville. While the other side can. It doesn't matter that one side can or can't run majors in a t1 frig.. The end of the day you are just farming and abusing a game mechanic to farm LP's.

If you want to ***** about Plexes, then the only valid argument is bitching about the EW from NPC's in majors. Aside from NPC's & their EW if you can't tank the damage or kill the NPC's then you are using the wrong ship for the job and you are likely there just to farm LP's. End of story.

(not directed at you specifically Cearain, but at everyone complaining they can't speed tank NPC's while the other side can)

After Reading all pages (and being a bit embarrassed by all the smack happening) i would like to make a review post:

-People have agreed that the timer should restore itself to starting point, when an enemy has been successfully pushed away before its completion.
-People have agreed that defensive plexing currently does not offer any reward at all, it should, albeit at a much lower rate than offensive plexing.
-People have mentioned they wish FW NPCs behave a bit more intelligent
-People have mentioned the idea of making the requirement to clear NPCs first before being able to run the timer (or button) on the complex.

Now let me add a few other aspects:

1) "Plexing", is an activity that albeit done in groups provide better safety, does not provide increased returns. In fact, fleets of people plexing obtain better results by splitting and running multiple sites simultaneously.
2) Low-sec FW has not only the regular 4 empire -aligned pilots flying around, it also has null-sec casual roaming, pirates and outlaws, and the occasional guys trying their first hand in pvp. Therefore a pilot looking to "plex" will often choose a "fast and agile" ship that provides a maneuvering advantage to avoid unwanted ganks or evade pursuers. This of course means choosing ship hulls that can speed tank (from t1 frigs to cynabals and vagabons).

3) Currently NPC rats present in plexes are bound by the design choices given for regular missions. These design constraints do not apply well in a pvp-rich target environment. If the NPCs apply to much ECM/TP/TD/SD then the affected pilot cannot fight well against incoming player enemies. There is also a lack of webbing or scrambling on these scenarios and EWar is often applied by a variety of different NPCs, not just a few recognizable hulls.

4) Finally, not only there are 3 sizes of complexes (minor, medium, major) there is also a scaled difficulty level with Outposts, Facilities, Installation and Compounds.

So that puts quite a few things in perspective. CCP please take them into consideration.

I'm not sure I agree defensive plexing gives no rewards. The lack of individual rewards for defensive plexing seems to be the only thing to provide balance here. I'm not saying I would be against some very small benefit (although I do think you get standings gains) but I think its too early to call this. I would say leave it as is until we have something evidence this is a problem.

I'm not sure people agree that the rats should be more intelligent as in some sort of sleeper ai. In fact I think most agree it shouldn't. I know I have no interest in matching wits with a computer ai and would prefer rats play less of a role in plexing.

As for 1)the timer going down when chased out and 2) killing all the rats I agree there has only been mostly positive responses for those proposals.



I think that is how it should be. I am against artificial pay increases for doing the same job just because you use more people. If a pilot(s) is/are good enough at pvp to capture a plex with fewer people they should get greater rewards.

We addressed specific issues about major and medium plexes and now you are just back tracking to vague generalities.

I agreed that minor plexes present no real problems for most pvp fits.

By including fights on the gate of a plex you of course won't have problems with npcs.

I can say that I pretty much never run major plexes or get any pvp inside major plexes due to the rats. I mainly just run minors because the mediums and major plexes are too limiting as to what I can fly.

I would guess about 80-90% of my pvp fights are inside plexes.

And this is what we call the give and take

Go run it in a pvp ship then or go into mediums instead.


And there is a thing called burning BEHIND the warpin so you dont get aggro..........

You know, I think I might be changing my mind on the 'clearing all rats to cap a plex' idea.

Mainly I'm changing my mind because plexing is pretty much the only way I'm making ISK in EVE right now. I used to just buy PLEXes with real money, but now I just plex a system, move plex another system, move back and keep going.

Then again, the only way that I can actually plex majors is because of a well fit dual prop incursus and not a 1 day old alt. I do mind alts with almost no training to do the same thing.

But... the KILLS!!!!

I think the change is an improvement, at the very least you now get a wider array of fight opportunities with a lot of solo or small gangs running plexes, in all kinds of systems (really a dream for solo roaming). The problem is, there isn't enough of a disincentive for someone running a plex to engage should someone come in and contest their plex.

Plexes right now are a pretty good carrot on a stick to get players out into low sec and the sheer spike in interest is probably the biggest contributor to the high kill count for the month. There is definitely room for iteration, including the removal of EWAR, adding tactical variation, and improving the capture mechanic.