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Yup, you guys should give Deming's management philosophies a try. By making changes one at a time you can better measure the results and adjust appropriately. Change a bunch of stuff at once and it's hard to figure out which change (or combo) is causing inadvertent results.

Thank you for taking a closer look at this and continuing to keep incursions fun.

As for people whining about the income level, you really should take a look at how much more of an ISK spigot the bounties are as well as the % of Eve players who run incursions.

And do you think that a 10% change to the profit will be enough to change this? Like said numerous times, the OTA wall is the issue. If it's the profits you wish to cut, just rollback every change and nerf incursion income by 50%, this essentially drops the profits down to just slightly above l4 missions and like seen before, there would be no single site type that everyone would avoid.

They take 3-4 times as much time as the other site types, all the while being much more dangerous as well. OTA's have a logistics tower of sorts that basically slow everything down. You have two means to compete with it, one being the old fashioned blast through everything approach which is ignoring the tower and killing the actual targets, the other is hacking the tower so that it stops repairs temporarily.

That old fashioned way doesn't really work anymore, as nowadays you have to kill each and every single ship before the site is completed and as such that tower really magnifies the problem. The hacking method on the other hand requires an extremely fast ship that has to travel about 90-100km to a location where no one else can really follow it (read: no friendly logistics support, in case it gets primaried), until they can hack the tower, which is only a temporary help. Shortly after there'd be the need of another similar trip to the other hacking target to do the exact same, again with basically zero support.

Some fleets, namely armor fleets, have managed to combat that issue by fitting microwarp drives to each and every ship and then moving everyone to the hacking locations. That however essentially means that half of the fleets are completely unable to do the same, unless they nerf their fits so badly that they're practically unable to do anything else.

In short, thanks to these reasons, absolutely no one bothers to run those sites.

edit: and just so it's clear, I'm 100% in favor of the profit nerf, it was much needed. However thanks to roadblocks like the abovementioned, fleets are hardly even forming at all at the moment, and the ones that do form, end up disbanding very soon as they hit that wall.

First, thanks for these changes. These are a good quick fix to bring some people back.

I sum myself to the OTA whining. I understand it might be too late to squeeze any other change but I believe making them a little easier could have a higher impact in bringing people back to incursions than payout increase, specially to low/null incursions. Maybe removing 1 rat from each OTA spawn?

Thank you very much for listening to all the whiny babbies during this whole debacle, it's been really great these last few months to see dev teams working with the community directly and actively responding to constructive threads and posts. A lot of these whiners have stopped whining about how they're being ignored, from the biggest whiny babby game on the internet.

REMOVED TO PROTEST CCP's Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP").

I think it's unfair to say it was ostrich tactics, IMHO they were completely justified in taking their time in dealing with the issue.

In all games, but especially MMOs, it is incredibly easy to add "convenience features" such as easy wealth or gear generation, faster levelling, extra save points, fast travelling etc. but it is notoriously difficult to at a later date take those features away. Even if they are identified as being harmful to the game.

I think CCP were quite brave to introduce the nerfs they did, especially given that the backlash to any nerfs was inevitable. Plus these rollbacks are relatively minor, and hopefully won't bring VGs above AS or HQ sites again and certainly won't bring incursions back up to null sec levels of ISK generation.


As I said above, I hope these roll backs won't have a meaningful effect on the income generated by incursions. It might encourage more players to do VGs again, but with the current changes I doubt null sec, wh or low sec players will still be running them in any great numbers.

As for inflation, are you referring to the raising ship prices? In which case incursions in their current state are really not to blame, and the increases in ship prices are probably a good thing.

Do you have statistics over how many mothership sites have been successfully run after the escalation patch in low/null?

im realy sorry . at first i seem to have gotthen this tred all wrong..

VG's feed back.. from a players point of view.

thy needed something YES everyone will agre about this..

1: Role back everything to what it was.. befor your nerf. ( you still have the program codes. )
2: now spice them up.... don't have the site names on the bikens. only a message like " sansha spottet "
3: let sansha make a propper invation.. not unseen that if you set up something you put up a warp bobble..

the new sites sould be like this...
a) Biken: sansha location
b) Random site spawn when you land inside the pocket
c) Warp bobble in the site to prevent you from warping back out. ( option to be hackked and unlocked )
e) Payment like befor. Nill and low at 100% and the High seq. at 75% like befor.
e) Sansha Dog tag drop's ( thy are realy missing if you ask me ) fighting off an sansha invation, and none of them is flying around with dog tag's ???

i hope your able to see some point of what i meen about this? and i realy thing this will not only bring VG's back to life.. but alot of new players will find it more fun to do.

the random site spawn will prevens an elite shiney fleet from beeing in control of 1 type of site, like befor a leagion fleet and the nighmare/mach fleet's

I always see this posted as a joke, but it does make me think:

Missions: Different missions available dependent on system security.
Exploration: Different sites available dependent on system security.
Anomalies: Different sites available dependent on system security.
Belt Ratting: Different NPCs available dependent on system security.

Incursions: Identical across all security regions with a nominal alteration in payout.