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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

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Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#621 - 2012-06-12 14:33:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Yes, and shift-click / shift-double click / shift-clickitty click click is superior to right-click and select your menu item. /me rolls eyes.

Give us back simple, consistent, persistent and customizable user interface behaviors please.

Edit: Furthermore, I will repeat my request for clear demonstrations by CCP on how to efficiently work with and in the new Inventory UI using examples containing a wide variety and large quanitity of "stuff." I am willing to admit that my interpretation of this UI change is not the only interpretation. Please show the greater EVE how things are done!

Here are some use-cases which will be really cool to see demonstrated:

> Capitals in a scrum, looking to either re-fit and grab modules or sub-capital ships from one anothers' hangars.
> A solo carrier pilot jumping from point to point, managing her fuel, moving stuff in and out of her corp hangars in-station or @ a POS.
> A Rorq or Orca based mining operation with multiple barges either dropping jet cans or feeding the capital directly via its hangars.
> A PvP pilot actively using / monitoring his or her cargo hold for charges and ammo all the while ninja-looting during a fight or on a busy high-sec gate.
> A POS installation with one or more CHAs as well as industrial modules such as labs, re-processing facilities and some amount of guns.
> Corporate hangar (and containers w/in) access w/in a station by both "regular" and director level corp members.
> An individual mission runner ether in his DPS boat or his noctis looting and salvaging.
> A freighter pilot making her rounds, picking up and delivering plastic wrapped contracts to and from station or POS based corp hangars.
> A hard core industrialist, who makes or stocks substantial amounts of fittings and consumables, using the Inventory UI in conjunction with the fitting screen to construct large volumes of ships for sale by public contract.

I bet that I have missed many a use case and suggest that other EVE space pilots continue to submit their personal Inventory use cases for CCP's review and as potential demonstration candidates.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#622 - 2012-06-12 14:55:59 UTC
well. did pretty complex tasks with inventory last several days.
found new inventory pretty useful. can't say i would want to return back to old system

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
black cree
Utopian Research I.E.L.
#623 - 2012-06-12 15:04:59 UTC
Since this blog is the only AUTHORIZED place to talk about UI , let's go:

As of now this UI is still a pain to use because it lacks basic functionalities:
For example sometimes shift clicking an already open window closes it because it s a child window from the root window, and you cant guess it is a child window, or filters applied to a window somehow affect another window.What?

Even the best developpers team in the world can't improvise a UI out of the blue like this.
It s a long run project , not an AGILE SPRINT.Attention
Even google failed with their new gmail, it s about DETAILS and CUSTOMER RELATIONSHIP quality, and even with the so called new method you have this RELATIONSHIP IS HULL TANKING right now.

I realise i have to translate my last sentence since some people somewhere in this project DONT KNOW EVE AND DONT PLAY EVE AT ALL.
I suggest they get a free trial and try the product from the user perspective

It s not about performance but DESIGN, so stop the performance fixes already.
Please dont get offended by the rage, it s not about the code quality but the IDEA ITSELF which is questionable:
could this idea come from the same place than the MANDATORY HALF BAKED CQ?
I dont care if you buy a one million dollar RAMSAN to speed up the database queries to compute some fantasy average value of items : this feature IS NOT NEEDED in the first place.

Don't force DOWN THE THROAT of players half baked features, criticized over and over on the test server.
If you can't figure out what ' s wrong with it, HIRE good eve players, (not me) , pay them some eve stuff for 50 bucks and they ll point you in the right direction. While you are listening to paying customers to ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND what details are so annoying, make half baked features like the market value NON MANDATORY.

How much money are you loosing from ragequit over the UI CCP ?

Hint : in user interface there s the word USER.

PS I dont use bot and never will.
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#624 - 2012-06-12 15:18:31 UTC
Kage Toshimado wrote:

I think I should start counting how many times I hear on comms how much someone hates "Unified Inventory"

Comments range from

"F**k this Unified Inventory!!!"

to

"I would play with you, but I can't be bothered to keep messing with inventory"

to

"I'm on my way to help you, if I could just figure out this unified inventory... I'll be right there...just one more minute...."


For the love of god CCP, go back to the way it was...



THIS
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#625 - 2012-06-12 15:42:42 UTC
black cree wrote:
Since this blog is the only AUTHORIZED place to talk about UI , let's go:

As of now this UI is still a pain to use because it lacks basic functionalities:
For example sometimes shift clicking an already open window closes it because it s a child window from the root window, and you cant guess it is a child window, or filters applied to a window somehow affect another window.What?

Even the best developpers team in the world can't improvise a UI out of the blue like this.
It s a long run project , not an AGILE SPRINT.Attention
Even google failed with their new gmail, it s about DETAILS and CUSTOMER RELATIONSHIP quality, and even with the so called new method you have this RELATIONSHIP IS HULL TANKING right now.

I realise i have to translate my last sentence since some people somewhere in this project DONT KNOW EVE AND DONT PLAY EVE AT ALL.
I suggest they get a free trial and try the product from the user perspective

It s not about performance but DESIGN, so stop the performance fixes already.
Please dont get offended by the rage, it s not about the code quality but the IDEA ITSELF which is questionable:
could this idea come from the same place than the MANDATORY HALF BAKED CQ?
I dont care if you buy a one million dollar RAMSAN to speed up the database queries to compute some fantasy average value of items : this feature IS NOT NEEDED in the first place.

Don't force DOWN THE THROAT of players half baked features, criticized over and over on the test server.
If you can't figure out what ' s wrong with it, HIRE good eve players, (not me) , pay them some eve stuff for 50 bucks and they ll point you in the right direction. While you are listening to paying customers to ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND what details are so annoying, make half baked features like the market value NON MANDATORY.

How much money are you loosing from ragequit over the UI CCP ?

Hint : in user interface there s the word USER.

PS I dont use bot and never will.


+1
Ariane VoxDei
#626 - 2012-06-12 16:02:34 UTC
So, 3 weeks and 10 patches later we are still not happy and there are still glaring inconsistencies and bad designchoices, not least of which removing/reducing accessibility and increasing the amount of work required to complete the same tasks.

You are down to 1 week to go before the promised 19th june update.

It is high time that you give us a list of inventory/UI changes that are planned to be part of it.
So, show us, tell us, give us reason to restore a little faith.
And be serious. Talk is cheap and your lack of desired action has already grossly slandered the lesson Oveur purportedly learned during "the door", the "10000$ jeans / gold ammo" and iterated on during this years fanfest keynote.

You direly need to show that you have spent the time wisely, and demonstrate that you have a clue to what we want and that the UI people responsible for it can be trusted to work for us.
Because that is the point, the UI is for us. Along with the rest of the client it is what we have to manipulate our internet spaceships.

Someone said "Everybody's got the right to be a sucker once". Ok, the UI guys have had that chance and used it to ignore feedback and push demonstrably worse stuff into the client than was there before.
Now they need to deliver redeeming work and they need to work with us with everything until trust has been rebuilt - anyone who currently trusts them to push UI changes to Tranq without getting the powerusers OK has got to be insane/imbecil. CSM does not pass muster in that regard, given they role in this and lack of taking a stand for useability, convenience and efficience.
If they don't, well, then we have been suckered and need to draw the conclusion that we need to leave or be suckered again.
It is a sh!tty situation, but when you blatantly ignore plenty of timely feedback and give the impression that nothing short of mass-cancels will move you, that is the only choice left, short of taking over the company. You broke our trust with the door&nex, you got the one and only second chance, don't throw it away.

Soundwave, sagt mellem os danskere, så er kvajekvoten alvorligt overskredet og det gælder også din og det meste af CCPs håntering af forløbet indtil videre. For at bruge endnu et Clint citat: they know they are wrong, but their egos won't let them admit it. Og det er bare endnu en fejl, endnu et wrong, der ikke gør tingene bedre.
Jeg har holdt min kæft, ud over før inferno at melde ud at det her ikke var i orden (ikke at I gad fatte advarslen), og de andre har samlet set dækket det meste af kritikken, men nu må i satan rende jer se at få fingeren ud. Og når og hvis der her bliver løst, så kan vi begynde at snakke om andre UI ting, f.x. hvorfor chatvinduer bliver minimeret til sidebar'en, utroligt hvad der kan ske af ulykker mens man er væk nogle måneder.
Der er efterhånden til et bi-*** om 'how not to do it' på uni.

PS det forumfilter er overdrevet bange for homo-hetz. Nu må man ikke længere skrive f a g.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#627 - 2012-06-12 17:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Ribikoka wrote:
black cree wrote:
Since this blog is the only AUTHORIZED place to talk about UI , let's go:

As of now this UI is still a pain to use because it lacks basic functionalities:
For example sometimes shift clicking an already open window closes it because it s a child window from the root window, and you cant guess it is a child window, or filters applied to a window somehow affect another window.What?

Even the best developpers team in the world can't improvise a UI out of the blue like this.
It s a long run project , not an AGILE SPRINT.Attention
Even google failed with their new gmail, it s about DETAILS and CUSTOMER RELATIONSHIP quality, and even with the so called new method you have this RELATIONSHIP IS HULL TANKING right now.

I realise i have to translate my last sentence since some people somewhere in this project DONT KNOW EVE AND DONT PLAY EVE AT ALL.
I suggest they get a free trial and try the product from the user perspective

It s not about performance but DESIGN, so stop the performance fixes already.
Please dont get offended by the rage, it s not about the code quality but the IDEA ITSELF which is questionable:
could this idea come from the same place than the MANDATORY HALF BAKED CQ?
I dont care if you buy a one million dollar RAMSAN to speed up the database queries to compute some fantasy average value of items : this feature IS NOT NEEDED in the first place.

Don't force DOWN THE THROAT of players half baked features, criticized over and over on the test server.
If you can't figure out what ' s wrong with it, HIRE good eve players, (not me) , pay them some eve stuff for 50 bucks and they ll point you in the right direction. While you are listening to paying customers to ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND what details are so annoying, make half baked features like the market value NON MANDATORY.

How much money are you loosing from ragequit over the UI CCP ?

Hint : in user interface there s the word USER.

PS I dont use bot and never will.


+1



They have given a basic outline of changes to the UI. Its on the test server now. The changes are.... nothing, really.

TBH i really can see me stopping actively playing this game. Faction war has really turned into farming with non combat ships and failure to do so results in no income. Not to say there wasnt always an element of farming in SB but that never had the ability to lock people out of stations. All FW consequences are PvE related.

And with the the unified inventory making every aspect of managing assets so very tedious, the good things in this game are beginning to get very tainted by the bad choices in recent months.

- Not to say there hasnt been good additions too, but lets focus on the dipshittery before we start greasing each others poles.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#628 - 2012-06-12 17:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
black cree wrote:
Since this blog is the only AUTHORIZED place to talk about UI , let's go:

As of now this UI is still a pain to use because it lacks basic functionalities:
For example sometimes shift clicking an already open window closes it because it s a child window from the root window, and you cant guess it is a child window, or filters applied to a window somehow affect another window.What?

Even the best developpers team in the world can't improvise a UI out of the blue like this.
It s a long run project , not an AGILE SPRINT.Attention
Even google failed with their new gmail, it s about DETAILS and CUSTOMER RELATIONSHIP quality, and even with the so called new method you have this RELATIONSHIP IS HULL TANKING right now.

I realise i have to translate my last sentence since some people somewhere in this project DONT KNOW EVE AND DONT PLAY EVE AT ALL.
I suggest they get a free trial and try the product from the user perspective

It s not about performance but DESIGN, so stop the performance fixes already.
Please dont get offended by the rage, it s not about the code quality but the IDEA ITSELF which is questionable:
could this idea come from the same place than the MANDATORY HALF BAKED CQ?
I dont care if you buy a one million dollar RAMSAN to speed up the database queries to compute some fantasy average value of items : this feature IS NOT NEEDED in the first place.

Don't force DOWN THE THROAT of players half baked features, criticized over and over on the test server.
If you can't figure out what ' s wrong with it, HIRE good eve players, (not me) , pay them some eve stuff for 50 bucks and they ll point you in the right direction. While you are listening to paying customers to ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND what details are so annoying, make half baked features like the market value NON MANDATORY.

How much money are you loosing from ragequit over the UI CCP ?

Hint : in user interface there s the word USER.

PS I dont use bot and never will.


Actually it is about code quality and QA quality. Just look at how many bugs they rolled out the fixes for. They fixed probably close to fifty bugs, just from their patch notes. That's some serious quality issues.

Btw i'm still getting spinny circles (inventory doesn't load, have to relog multiple times to load), windows still don't reliably save positions between sessions. Look at your code, something is different between let's say saving corp window position and this new unified UI position. Corp window position is always reliably saved. Copy that code over if you are unable to write your own new code. Obviously a different person is working on this new UI code now.

They are already being given a ton of feedback, and they are ignoring most of it apparently. Why would they pay someone if they know they are going to ignore their feedback anyway?

Wrt hull tanking - they must be thinking it's ok since they are in an apoc imperial issue with a bunch of reinforced bulkheads and dmg control.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#629 - 2012-06-12 17:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Dream Five wrote:
black cree wrote:
Since this blog is the only AUTHORIZED place to talk about UI , let's go:

As of now this UI is still a pain to use because it lacks basic functionalities:
For example sometimes shift clicking an already open window closes it because it s a child window from the root window, and you cant guess it is a child window, or filters applied to a window somehow affect another window.What?

Even the best developpers team in the world can't improvise a UI out of the blue like this.
It s a long run project , not an AGILE SPRINT.Attention
Even google failed with their new gmail, it s about DETAILS and CUSTOMER RELATIONSHIP quality, and even with the so called new method you have this RELATIONSHIP IS HULL TANKING right now.

I realise i have to translate my last sentence since some people somewhere in this project DONT KNOW EVE AND DONT PLAY EVE AT ALL.
I suggest they get a free trial and try the product from the user perspective

It s not about performance but DESIGN, so stop the performance fixes already.
Please dont get offended by the rage, it s not about the code quality but the IDEA ITSELF which is questionable:
could this idea come from the same place than the MANDATORY HALF BAKED CQ?
I dont care if you buy a one million dollar RAMSAN to speed up the database queries to compute some fantasy average value of items : this feature IS NOT NEEDED in the first place.

Don't force DOWN THE THROAT of players half baked features, criticized over and over on the test server.
If you can't figure out what ' s wrong with it, HIRE good eve players, (not me) , pay them some eve stuff for 50 bucks and they ll point you in the right direction. While you are listening to paying customers to ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND what details are so annoying, make half baked features like the market value NON MANDATORY.

How much money are you loosing from ragequit over the UI CCP ?

Hint : in user interface there s the word USER.

PS I dont use bot and never will.


Actually it is about code quality and QA quality. Just look at how many bugs they rolled out the fixes for. They fixed probably close to fifty bugs, just from their patch notes. That's some serious quality issues.

Btw i'm still getting spinny circles (inventory doesn't load, have to relog multiple times to load), windows still don't reliably save positions between sessions. Look at your code, something is different between let's say saving corp window position and this new unified UI position. Corp window position is always reliably saved. Copy that code over if you are unable to write your own new code. Obviously a different person is working on this new UI code now.

Wrt hull tanking - they must be thinking it's ok since they are in an apoc imperial issue with a bunch of reinforced bulkheads and dmg control.


Non of those bugs existed before they introduced them with the new unified inventory. My inventory was working quite well till then. Even if they get this UI working exactly as they intend to, its still going to require more input to do the same thing. Regardless of presentation, THAT is why this new unified inventory is a disgrace, well, its just bad. The disgrace is that CCP wont acknowledge that its bad.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#630 - 2012-06-12 18:30:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
After i assemble a repackaged ship the UI locks up randomly and i have to restart the client.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#631 - 2012-06-12 20:34:33 UTC
Dream Five... rip out your entire client and reinstall. you are getting some severe problems that I have not heard much about from other people.
Captain' Jack Sparrow
#632 - 2012-06-12 20:53:13 UTC
Captain' Jack Sparrow wrote:
OK, now that I am at the correct "official" thread (thank you CCP Explorer) I am hoping to get an answer.

The Unified Inventory, as described on CCP's own website, does NOT seem to be the same as the Unified Inventory that I am forced to use in-game.

Quote:
Unified Inventory - Your entire fortune in a single click

You have hangars of ships at your disposal and wealth that spans the galaxy. Unified Inventory gives you convenient access to all of it. Searching for your favorite ship is now easier. Assessing your stockpiles, more convenient. Admiring the fruits of your labors, more rewarding.


Taken from this page --->>> http://www.eveonline.com/inferno/unified-inventory-ftr/

To me, it seems like this "feature" was intended to be used under the assets tab, and then got sidetracked into this mess we have now. In my opinion, the assets tab is the perfect place for this new toy.

Could a DEV please explain what has happened here? Your website contradicts the reality of the game.

Thank you so much.




I apologize if quoting myself is against any rules, but I am still patiently awaiting a response.

A dev had the time to read my post in another thread. Instead of answering my questions THERE, he directed me to THIS thread. Now that I am here, posting in the correct OFFICIAL thread, I see no devs.

Come on, now... Seriously!
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#633 - 2012-06-12 20:57:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
Maul555 wrote:
Dream Five... rip out your entire client and reinstall. you are getting some severe problems that I have not heard much about from other people.


Not fun, i'll pass thanks for the suggestion.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#634 - 2012-06-12 21:25:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Maul555
Dream Five wrote:
Maul555 wrote:
Dream Five... rip out your entire client and reinstall. you are getting some severe problems that I have not heard much about from other people.


No thanks, i'd rather quit.



Whatever makes you happy. But local clients do get messed up from time to time, and there may be no possible update in the world that will fix it...

From a purely troubleshooting standpoint, you need to reinstall your client before making one more complaint on that issue. You symptoms appear to be unique/rare, and nobody can really know for sure what is causing the problem until you take that basic step.

Or to put it another way; Prove it's not your client, so you can confidently shove it in CCP's face
Anvil44
Avedis Corporation
The Vanguard Syndicate
#635 - 2012-06-12 21:33:45 UTC
Too many pages to skim through for a similar situation but here is my fun thing today:
Alt 1 in an Orca; Alt 2 in some other ship, both in wh space. Alt 1 goes to another ship to run some anomalies whilst Alt 2 jumps in the Orca. Up to this point in time both can access the corp hangers in the Orca no problem. After some anomaly running, Alt 2 jumps into another ship and Alt 1 moves back in to the Orca. Now even though both can access the Orca corp hangers, and though both see that they are approximately half full, no items are visible for either alt.

I have not logged back in yet (as I had to go to work and am currently there) to see if a log out fixed it but...why should I have to log out to fix this visibility? What a pain.

Salvaging wasn't too bad but after using Loot All on either a wreck or a can, the view switches back to my ship hold. So I have 2 windows open for my hold, one of which has the tree, the other is dedicated to my ship hold specifically. Not beautiful but not too big a deal. Maybe I am just too used to a wreck or can contents window closing after it has been emptied.

I noticed with my 3rd alt in a station that I can not save a specific 'ship hanger button' on the neocom. I wish I had the option for that. While I can see that for the most part the useability of the new UI isn't too horrendous anymore, I am finding the tree view very difficult as I have to open up a big window to see what I am doing, while trying to include the tree view in any sort of useable way. I find this frustrating as screen space is at a premium as it is and making bigger windows makes it even more cramped feeling.

Now that my wife has given me approval to get 2 monitors for EyeFinity fun, I know I can make things easier eventually, however that day has not yet arrived. So these large windows are really not that much fun right now.

Lastly, as I know many people have pointed out, it is sometimes confusing trying to keep open all the windows a person needs for doing jobs such as manufacturing. Forget to hold the shift button once and you can get screwed up quickly. This all still feels very clumsy to me. How much of this is habit from playing for almost 3 years and how much is because the new system is not intuitive, I just can't say. But if you promise you are still listening and looking at these things, I can be patient. Thanks to playing Eve, I have learned patience.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.
Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#636 - 2012-06-12 22:15:06 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
Maul555 wrote:
Dream Five... rip out your entire client and reinstall. you are getting some severe problems that I have not heard much about from other people.


No thanks, i'd rather quit.


Um. I'm all for irrational hate on the Unified Inventory, because frankly it's just THAT BAD that if you accuse it of anything less than genocide, I'm inclined to believe you. But that really does sound like a "you" problem, not a UI problem. Reinstall will probably fix it.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#637 - 2012-06-12 22:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
Maul555 wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
Maul555 wrote:
Dream Five... rip out your entire client and reinstall. you are getting some severe problems that I have not heard much about from other people.


No thanks, i'd rather quit.



Whatever makes you happy. But local clients do get messed up from time to time, and there may be no possible update in the world that will fix it...

From a purely troubleshooting standpoint, you need to reinstall your client before making one more complaint on that issue. You symptoms appear to be unique/rare, and nobody can really know for sure what is causing the problem until you take that basic step.

Or to put it another way; Prove it's not your client, so you can confidently shove it in CCP's face


Shouldn't be my problem.. Local clients shouldn't get messed up. I sure didn't mess with it. If they can't properly maintain their own caching data structure and clean it up where needed along with their client updates shame on them. Version your data structs, write an automated upconversion tool, whatever. They've been doing this for a long time, you'd think they'd learn by now?
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#638 - 2012-06-12 22:40:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
Jonuts wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
Maul555 wrote:
Dream Five... rip out your entire client and reinstall. you are getting some severe problems that I have not heard much about from other people.


No thanks, i'd rather quit.


Um. I'm all for irrational hate on the Unified Inventory, because frankly it's just THAT BAD that if you accuse it of anything less than genocide, I'm inclined to believe you. But that really does sound like a "you" problem, not a UI problem. Reinstall will probably fix it.


Tried clearing the cache on 2 comps. No coincidence.
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#639 - 2012-06-12 22:49:44 UTC
Maul555 wrote:
Dream Five wrote:
Maul555 wrote:
Dream Five... rip out your entire client and reinstall. you are getting some severe problems that I have not heard much about from other people.


No thanks, i'd rather quit.



Whatever makes you happy. But local clients do get messed up from time to time, and there may be no possible update in the world that will fix it...

From a purely troubleshooting standpoint, you need to reinstall your client before making one more complaint on that issue. You symptoms appear to be unique/rare, and nobody can really know for sure what is causing the problem until you take that basic step.

Or to put it another way; Prove it's not your client, so you can confidently shove it in CCP's face


2 machines, similar symptomes to a bug they already fixed. Enough for me.
shadowgirl9
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#640 - 2012-06-12 23:51:13 UTC
What i would like to see come back:

Fast and easy to use
Ship's hanger separate from all the other windows (will speed things up a lot in just wanting to move stuff from your hanger to the ship)
corp hangers to be separate from all other windows (once again speeds things up a lot when wanting to move stuff to a different hanger)
ship hanger to be separate from the rest (not needed as much but was still nice to have)
the delivery button returned
the corp hanger button returned
double click returned (this shift click is not practical)
the menu list takes way to long to find the hanger your after (needs to be simple and easy to look at)