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New dev blog: Incursions update

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Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#21 - 2012-06-12 13:05:50 UTC
Glad to see CCP are actually iterating, able to admit their mistakes somewhat promptly, and state they will continue to review and tweak.

But what about the sites per level (Vanguard, Assaults) that are bottlenecking the system, because they're so inefficient and unfun to run?

What about seeding more than 1 big fat bullseye of a lowsec incursion at a time?

Incursions were fun for the couple of months I ran them, it's a false dichotomy to say the fleets were purely for the isk or run by blood-oath-brothers doing them purely for the principle of it. Small fleet PvE in an MMO is a no-brainer.

Inb4 Darth & Apol can't help themselves...
Taga Kreon
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-06-12 13:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Taga Kreon
The main change that killed Vanguards was the OTA, not the payouts... And it's been clearly stated in the forums... And by looking at the data CCP could not see the OTA stacking up in every system??? I'm a bit disappointed... The only thing Vanguards need is balancing of the OTA site, ok, some iterations for influence bar are welcome. Payout is not the issue.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#23 - 2012-06-12 13:14:51 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
So now you've destroyed the (already terrible) war dec system, you're following up with winding back high sec nerfs? Nice one CCP.

While I agree with the incursion bar changes, buffing isk reward in high sec is simply a quick fix. One that in the long run is just going to continue turning older players away from the game.

*Please disregard this comment, misread dev blog as a 10% buff to all incursion site payouts.

10% back to VGs is probably a reasonable change, as is the incursion bar.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Nomatech
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-06-12 13:18:40 UTC
Ms Affinity;

These seem like very reasonable changes to dial back some of the unintended consequences of the Escalation patch. It should encourage more pilots to come back without opening the isk faucet to the level it was before. By keeping the anti-blitzing measures in place in the sites, I think there there will be a good balance in risk-v-reward-v-time ratios. The reversion of the influence bar is substantial, if not as obvious to many non-incursion players. It will make Low and Null incursions viable once again. There hadn't been any measurable low/null Incursion activity since the patch. Combined with the anti-blitzing measures, the Influence was a large factor in making the VG's unreasonable to run for some pilots. HQ's and AS's will also be more pleasant and consistent to run as well, although those sites weren't anywhere near as impacted by Escalation.

So overall I'm very pleased with these incremental changes and hope to see incursions continue to be iterated on.

Thanks!
Nomatech
Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2012-06-12 13:39:10 UTC
I want to express satisfaction at this devblog.

I have no idea if these changes are good or bad. But I'm very happy to see CCP FINALLY able to properly iterate on features, instead of changing-and-forgetting them.

Good job! Keep looking at what you do/redo/undo, and dampen the wildest oscillations between too much and too little, toward the right balance.

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
Vedje
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-12 14:07:02 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Navigator
Incursions were the nr1 source of inflation in the game. Just check the rising plex prices
in the last year and from the time when incursions begun. The small change of 10% drop
in rewards was insufficient, and now you are backing up from it?

Off topic comments removed. Navigator.
Adan Natrier
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-06-12 14:09:32 UTC
Quote:

(2:50:04 PM) Cpt Underpants: "We promised to monitor the result of these changes and we stand to our promise: after evaluating both your feedback and our internal metrics, we..." realised nobody is doing incursions at all outside of highsec.


This is the current state of incursions outside of high sec, and neither vanguards nor assaults are worth the time for the only groups that ever did them away from concord's comforting glare. Even pre-Escalation 0.0 and low sec incursions were seriously limited in appeal because of the logistics difficulties and ohmygoshpirates, and it took less than 6 hours after that for that to go from little appeal to flat zero. I'm sure, CCP you have stats, but to anyone else, you just need to look at the incursions entry on the journal to corroborate that.

Either level the playing field so that there's no concord in incursion systems and put them back, or If you don't want there to be low or nullsec incursion running, just remove them, because it was formerly the best flying-in-space addition of the last two years, but you've made them basically nothing but a nuisance to everyone.
Elvin Gizza
Gerek Ore And Moon Surveying
#28 - 2012-06-12 14:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Elvin Gizza
removed post as it was edited by CCP Navigator

Removed part of post as off topic. Navigator.
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2012-06-12 14:09:46 UTC
Just to re-iterate what my blog says and what CCP Soundwave has already stated - we will be making more changes in the future. We will monitor (both through feedback and stats) the payout issue and we will make any further changes we feel are necessary. The only reason for the rollbacks is that we feel we made too many changes at once and want to look into this in more detail and take smaller steps.

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

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J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-06-12 14:10:00 UTC
Vedje wrote:
Wow, are you guys on liquor again?
Incursions were the nr1 source of inflation in the game. Just check the rising plex prices
in the last year and from the time when incursions begun. The small change of 10% drop
in rewards was insufficient, and now you are backing up from it?
Way to go ccp, spineless bunch


Last I heard it was bounties. 
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Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-06-12 14:10:26 UTC
the upcoming changes do not fix the main issue.
-making a little bit less isk is not a game breaker
-making the influence bar move a little bit slower is not a game breaker

OTA's are the game breaker. It's sad to see 4-6 OTA's just sitting there in a couple of systems because nobody wants to run them. Tweak OTA's so they are more inline with the other VG sites, leave the isk/influence bar where they are at now and I believe that will make most of the people happy

btw, does not running OTA's cause the other sites to spawn less?
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-06-12 14:16:14 UTC
Decent changes, also your picture of Sansha is going to give me nightmares...
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
Controlled Chaos
#33 - 2012-06-12 14:27:24 UTC
Setsune Rin wrote:
what about a tweak to OTA's? make them bearable for fleets other then the ones that blind you with shiny stuff (remove that stupid repping tower and/or the hacking requirement)

that might restore it some some form of popularity, instead of stopping vanguards alltogether after there is nothing but OTA's


I fly through too many OTA only systems in incursions with about 3 people in local so its obvious fleets are not running them.
Zita Devon
Z.Devon Trade Industry.
#34 - 2012-06-12 15:03:51 UTC
there is only ONE word to discribe incurtions, just a "wreste" of time...

we was starting to run them a year ago.. we was fighting to figuer out how to kill sansha as fast as posible, WE invested houres and munths of Skill points into skill's needed to make this happen.

We invested Tons of ISK into the needed ship's and fitting for this to happen.

WE are left with nothing.. CCP was not giveing us an Nerf of 10 % pay out. it's an nerf of -80% profit.

pilotes running VG incurtions now.. thy spent 5 times more the ammo and 3 times more time and the pay out is 10% lower,
you need a fleet of 10 ppl to run. a fleet will not work if your missing just 1 pilot.

this makes lvl 4 mission more profitable.. and Result.. ppl don't fly incurtions anymore...

it's true Shiny fleet's was running them at 4 min's flat. but now you have ppl sitting all day waiting for the 1 missing pilot to be able to run them..

to run incurtions you needed a pilot who was able to fly in all faction of space..
must players have an "extra" accound to do this, but that's not needed anymore.. sinds this is not makeing the asme profit anymore.

guy's REMEMBER EVE is a game.. play the game to have fun.. and enjoy your time online.. don't cry about what was going on befor.. adobt to the changes.. and find something else to do .. go out and Exploit the EASY system of Ganking .. even with Concord right next to you.. THY still don't bother to defend a mining ship getting shot at.. in high seq. OOH and remember " it is not theft to run of with an empty ship is space. but it's theft to take a metal scrap from a dead rat..
Ahbu Kahn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-06-12 15:15:44 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
These are just short term fixes to get us back to a place where people are happier with Incursions. We will look at further changes in the future - one step at a time.



Thanks CCP. This is a big step in the Right Direction
eidenjunior
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-06-12 15:45:25 UTC
Can we get to see some stats about incursion, pre-inferno and post-inferno?
GRIEV3R
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#37 - 2012-06-12 15:45:46 UTC
Good work, CCP!
I think small, iterative changes that are clearly articulated in Dev Blogs are great. Thank you.

As for the what you are actually changing, I'm not very knowledgeable about incursions - I almost never run them. I guess the only 0.02 ISK I could offer is: I think PvE content should not feel too grindy. Changes that make large, group PvE activities less annoying = more fun.

This is a long-term game. Like any veteran player who has half a brain, I'll wait and see how this evolves. Thanks for the Dev Blog.
Imuran
Zentor Industries
#38 - 2012-06-12 15:48:20 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Just to re-iterate what my blog says and what CCP Soundwave has already stated - we will be making more changes in the future. We will monitor (both through feedback and stats) the payout issue and we will make any further changes we feel are necessary. The only reason for the rollbacks is that we feel we made too many changes at once and want to look into this in more detail and take smaller steps.


Dont run incursions myself but this make sense to me
Finde learth
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-06-12 15:48:51 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
these changes combined made getting the influence bar under control an almost impossible task



Did CCP see incursion spread across New Eden ?
How could it be impossible task ?

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#40 - 2012-06-12 16:19:26 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
These are just short term fixes to get us back to a place where people are happier with Incursions. We will look at further changes in the future - one step at a time.


Changes in the payout may be the only needed change, provided you keep iterating on them. For example, OTA's may deserve a higher payout than other sites, just to make them worth while.

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