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Warfare & Tactics

 
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New Mechanics and NPC's

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Nave Drallig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#241 - 2012-06-08 23:52:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Nave Drallig
X Gallentius wrote:
Nave Drallig wrote:
see as previously stated i play to win. and thats what im doing, if this requires exploiting a loophole im all for it. and dont do that holier then thou crap. i was chasing your afk plexers out long before i started doing it, i just embraced it as a valid tactic before you. but i see even you Qcats are now down playing in the mud and that makes me smile because it shows your adapting and will make this war even more fun.
I hope you agree that both are lame tactics, and that CCP ought to find a way to make them not efficient. Edit: Also be careful w.r.t wishing for lame tactics to be used in FW. They can get very, very lame indeed.

The next thing you should try is getting your alt to +5 Federation standings so you can enter all Gallente faction plexes and not get shot at by NPCs. Then you can bring a real pvp ship.



i Completely agree its a lame tactic. ive actually moved away from it because of how boring it is and mostly just do minors in a hookbill now also still boring because its pve but less then reading a book and occasionally scaning (and yes i kill all the npc's). only problem is being a late night player is the lack of fights, well.. realistic fights im not going to fight a pair of thrashers in my hook or something along those lines. which is all i seem to run into lately


also X gal can you tell your corp mates to come out and play Pirate... we even came to your home last night in nen and sat just outside of station... we loaned you some missles and would really love them back Cool
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#242 - 2012-06-09 00:49:47 UTC
They're playing LoL and practicing for alliance tourney.... you'll have to wait a couple weeks.
Nave Drallig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#243 - 2012-06-09 01:18:24 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
They're playing LoL and practicing for alliance tourney.... you'll have to wait a couple weeks.




Sad thier lack of pew pew is depressing
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#244 - 2012-06-09 04:34:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Jones Bones wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Stuff.


Nothing is stopping you from running plexes with armor ships. I use armor thrashers for minors and armor Vexors (think drones \o/) for mediums. For majors I would imagine you at least have to fit a local rep on a myrm/cane/harb/etc. ...


The difference is I do not "imagine" it. I actually have run them in different fits. I have tried running them in a myrm and in a ham drake and in a shield harby.

Ill ask again, have you run major plexes solo, in bcs other than a heavy missile drake? Because until you have I am not sure why you are pushing this issue.

As far as fitting a local rep I do that on my myrm. But no I typically don't fit local reps on my pvp armor canes or harbies. On my myrm I end up eating my cap boosters to the point that if I run more than one major I will likely be out of them if any enemy comes to pvp.


Jones Bones wrote:

Your arguments are not valid for me. Plexes never get my shield Rupture below 90% and my Drake never dips below 80% in majors. Your argument sounds like: I should be able to run a plex against NPCs solo and fight whatever player comes to kill me without a thought to my fit.


Well I admit that I stopped running plexes in my shield rupture so perhaps the rats have changed. But my shield rupture fit would always get below 50% even when i would attack the swarms as they came in. Now if you are kiting them and leaving the orbit button that is a different story. Yes you can kite them outside the orbit range and keep your shield at whatever. But it takes allot longer to run the plexes.

If you go into a plex where the rats already started spawning and so you have the mass of them then you can forget it in a rupture. You will spend so much time kiting them outside the orbit range you would be better off doing 3 other new medium plexes in that same time.


Jones Bones wrote:

Good luck with that. BTW, I've ran majors with 2 thrashers. Also, I do not think unrestricted majors were designed to be soloed by a BC. There's a reason they are unrestricted...


I am sure you can run a major with 2 ships. Have one collect aggro etc. If you just have them both basically fighting the rats in pure pvp fits at the button I would think you would have to do warp outs. But I will admit I do not dual box so I don't know. I do know I was in a coercer and I was going to try to fight a thrasher and 2 t1 frigates in a major but before I could even mwd into disruptor range the rats were tearing into me so bad I had to warp out.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Nave Drallig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#245 - 2012-06-09 16:21:35 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Actually I'll help you out with your goal of playing to win, and hopefully CCP sees this as well and decides to fix these in the future. Here are two best ways to "Play to Win":

1. Get two alts and have them join their own Gallente militia corp and have them plex up their standings to +10. Now you join the same Gallente militia corp. What does this do? You can now fire on your own militia member and not suffer any consequences whatsoever because even though your militia standings will go down to -10, your corp mates (alts) will keep your corporation standings above zero. They fire on you first? They get faction standings hit and possibly booted from militia. You fire on them first? Nothing. Cool idea huh?

2. As said before, get Federation faction standings above +5. Now you can enter any Gallente militia plex as a Caldari/Amarr pilot and never get shot at. Forget T1 crap fit frigate - Run all of these plexes with your pvp ship. No problems.

There are other really cool "play to win" tactics you can use. Hit me up in game and I'll give you a few.



we have our own rat named Quake something that does this in a hawk and hunts the unaware most of us kill on sight now.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#246 - 2012-06-10 01:05:25 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Major Killz wrote:
Interesting. Alot of the same arguments, issues, problems and concerns that have been made since the inception of faction warfare.


Except now CCP is actually trying to fix the issues, for which myself (and many others) are quite thankful for.

If you take a step back and try not to take the rules to their logical extremes FW plex fighting is pretty fun.

Plexes were intended to provide ship limited combat that isn't found as much anywhere else in Eve due to "hot drop itis" and other ways of ganking the hell out of potential targets. And in this, they actually work out really well.

They are also tied to occupancy warfare and the issue here is that ships not intended to be used in them (unfit T1 crap frigates for both defensive and offensive) can be used to solo them. Just as it sucks that a T1 crap frig can solo an offensive major, it sucks that an unfit Atron can solo a defensive major as well. CCP ought to provide a mechanic that encourages players to bring the properly sized ship for the properly sized plex. If an unfit ship can close an unrestricted major in 20 minutes, it ought to be an unfit Battleship so that there is more risk to their wallet if somebody figures out a way to gank them. If somebody wants to bring an unfit atron to the unrestricted plex, it ought to take them 3 hours to close it, or something ridiculous like that to encourage them to ship up.





It's rather bullshit that my drake or navy caracal cannot run a major stronghold (getting hit for wrecking shots at 80 km away....so you have to warp in and out for 10-15 mins and kill the BS rats before you can even start running the timer...) whereas if I stepped into an afterburner frig I can run it immediately without a hitch.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#247 - 2012-06-10 01:09:10 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Nave Drallig wrote:
also Chatgris is a char named Hatgris attached to you at all? caught him afk plexing last night in an altron of all things.
Hatgris is part of our legion of afk plexing atrons that are currently being onlined to help clean up the mess of people like you in afk plexing Merlins.

Lame? Yes. Necessary? Yes (adapt or die, right?). Otherwise we will be bored to tears running defensive plexes with our mains.

Should there be a mechanic that discourages weaponless T1 frigs from influencing the Occupancy War that doesn't involve chasing rabbits forever? Definitely. Hopefully CCP will get on it ASAP. (Suggestions: Kill all NPCs requirement for offensive, timer speed for defensive plexes based on ship brought to plex, timer moves back to baseline zero quickly if nobody is on button).


Pretty much whichever militia gets its own defensive atron/condor alt army up and running first is who wins faction war on our front, they halt enemy advance and will start taking systems 1 by 1 without losing any. Unfortunately I think my efforts to get guys to make these alts if they have a 2nd account is falling on deaf ears. Sad Who would honestly rather be defensive plexing on their main when you can be out finding pew while alts do the dirty work?
pelchan
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#248 - 2012-06-10 02:08:40 UTC
Interesting.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#249 - 2012-06-10 04:30:51 UTC
Super Chair wrote:

Pretty much whichever militia gets its own defensive atron/condor alt army up and running first is who wins faction war on our front, they halt enemy advance and will start taking systems 1 by 1 without losing any. Unfortunately I think my efforts to get guys to make these alts if they have a 2nd account is falling on deaf ears. Sad Who would honestly rather be defensive plexing on their main when you can be out finding pew while alts do the dirty work?


Probably because you seem to think that PVP comes second to Sov warfare, instead of understanding that the Sov warfare was put in place in EVE to encourage conflict which results in PVP. Sadly FW will eventually suffer the same problems that null sec has in the fact people like yourself become more worried about holding their space than using the space to get the conflict they originally wanted.

Sov warfare is a means to a end to encourage PVP. Some of us choose to use it to get that PVP rather than to become Space Hitlers & Napoleons worrying more about the space and using farm alts to protect it than having fun and fighting for it.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#250 - 2012-06-10 04:41:06 UTC
I can't hear you Mutnin over our +9 in captured systems. Big smile
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#251 - 2012-06-10 07:10:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
X Gallentius wrote:
I can't hear you Mutnin over our +9 in captured systems. Big smile


We didn't want those systems anyway? Kinda like the 3 Gal systems that have been vulnerable for 2 or 3 days now that no one can be bothered to shoot the bunkers to capture them.. No one wants to defend on your side or ours.. It's all just space farmville where the smart guys just toss alts in which ever side has the highest & easiest to maintain warzone control. (yes I have my own personal stash of Stabber FI's now)

CCP kinda got it close to right, but with out any reason to defend the systems there is little to no reason to do so. PVP is up but the influx of farm alts is 10 times worse than it was with mission farmers. It's gonna get worse too because the hoards of Null Bears are starting to show up and they will do nothing but flood the market with stuff killing any profits from LP's.

There has to be some sort of balance system put in place to encourage defense & some way to stop the hoards of noob alts farming plexes, like requiring all NPCs' be killed.
Marzuq
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#252 - 2012-06-10 22:15:23 UTC
The solution is simple. Making all FW NPCs like Sanshas/Sleepers.

All will Scram Neut and Web at infinite range. Do Omnidamage with turrets and missiles. Infinite range turrets and missiles. All NPC's will aggro you once you enter the plex, you will no longer be able to easy mode SB or frigate.

Only Minor Plexes will be doable in a frigate. In higher level sites, a frigate will die in a fire.

All sites will become equally difficult for all sides.

Balance shall be restored.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#253 - 2012-06-11 00:24:41 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Super Chair wrote:

Pretty much whichever militia gets its own defensive atron/condor alt army up and running first is who wins faction war on our front, they halt enemy advance and will start taking systems 1 by 1 without losing any. Unfortunately I think my efforts to get guys to make these alts if they have a 2nd account is falling on deaf ears. Sad Who would honestly rather be defensive plexing on their main when you can be out finding pew while alts do the dirty work?


Probably because you seem to think that PVP comes second to Sov warfare, instead of understanding that the Sov warfare was put in place in EVE to encourage conflict which results in PVP. Sadly FW will eventually suffer the same problems that null sec has in the fact people like yourself become more worried about holding their space than using the space to get the conflict they originally wanted.

Sov warfare is a means to a end to encourage PVP. Some of us choose to use it to get that PVP rather than to become Space Hitlers & Napoleons worrying more about the space and using farm alts to protect it than having fun and fighting for it.



Would you like a bandaid for that butthurt? Smile
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#254 - 2012-06-11 01:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Marzuq wrote:
The solution is simple. Making all FW NPCs like Sanshas/Sleepers.

All will Scram Neut and Web at infinite range. Do Omnidamage with turrets and missiles. Infinite range turrets and missiles. All NPC's will aggro you once you enter the plex, you will no longer be able to easy mode SB or frigate.

Only Minor Plexes will be doable in a frigate. In higher level sites, a frigate will die in a fire.

All sites will become equally difficult for all sides.

Balance shall be restored.


And all pvp shall cease as well. (Seriously, inifi range neut and web?)

All that's needed is for all rats to be killed. That will automatically balance the size of ship to bring (a frigate may still be able to do it, but it will take longer than another ship with more dps/range).
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#255 - 2012-06-11 01:18:56 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Marzuq wrote:
The solution is simple. Making all FW NPCs like Sanshas/Sleepers.

All will Scram Neut and Web at infinite range. Do Omnidamage with turrets and missiles. Infinite range turrets and missiles. All NPC's will aggro you once you enter the plex, you will no longer be able to easy mode SB or frigate.

Only Minor Plexes will be doable in a frigate. In higher level sites, a frigate will die in a fire.

All sites will become equally difficult for all sides.

Balance shall be restored.


And all pvp shall cease as well. (Seriously, inifi range neut and web?)

All that's needed is for all rats to be killed. That will automatically balance the size of ship to bring (a frigate may still be able to do it, but it will take longer than another ship with more dps/range).



Not empty quoting
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#256 - 2012-06-11 05:38:49 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
Super Chair wrote:

Pretty much whichever militia gets its own defensive atron/condor alt army up and running first is who wins faction war on our front, they halt enemy advance and will start taking systems 1 by 1 without losing any. Unfortunately I think my efforts to get guys to make these alts if they have a 2nd account is falling on deaf ears. Sad Who would honestly rather be defensive plexing on their main when you can be out finding pew while alts do the dirty work?


Probably because you seem to think that PVP comes second to Sov warfare, instead of understanding that the Sov warfare was put in place in EVE to encourage conflict which results in PVP. Sadly FW will eventually suffer the same problems that null sec has in the fact people like yourself become more worried about holding their space than using the space to get the conflict they originally wanted.

Sov warfare is a means to a end to encourage PVP. Some of us choose to use it to get that PVP rather than to become Space Hitlers & Napoleons worrying more about the space and using farm alts to protect it than having fun and fighting for it.



Would you like a bandaid for that butthurt? Smile


Keep pushing Superchair and we will see where your talk gets you.
Lexmana
#257 - 2012-06-11 09:07:26 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Marzuq wrote:
The solution is simple. Making all FW NPCs like Sanshas/Sleepers.

All will Scram Neut and Web at infinite range. Do Omnidamage with turrets and missiles. Infinite range turrets and missiles. All NPC's will aggro you once you enter the plex, you will no longer be able to easy mode SB or frigate.

Only Minor Plexes will be doable in a frigate. In higher level sites, a frigate will die in a fire.

All sites will become equally difficult for all sides.

Balance shall be restored.


And all pvp shall cease as well. (Seriously, inifi range neut and web?)

All that's needed is for all rats to be killed. That will automatically balance the size of ship to bring (a frigate may still be able to do it, but it will take longer than another ship with more dps/range).


This is an easy fix.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#258 - 2012-06-11 15:20:33 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
This is an easy fix.

You'd think, right?

We plexers suggested it years ago as a band-aid until CCP could get around to sorting the NPCs proper or even as a stand alone fix with eWar addressed. The plexing balance has been out of whack since day one, it is only now, four years later that CCP are officially "looking into it", Goddess only knows what solution they come up with .. Big smile
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#259 - 2012-06-11 15:51:10 UTC
I've soloed majors in a daul prop Vengeance.

I honestly don't get the problems people have with plexing, except of course the ECM.
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#260 - 2012-06-11 16:29:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
Jones Bones wrote:
I've soloed majors in a daul prop Vengeance.

I honestly don't get the problems people have with plexing, except of course the ECM.


I can take matar major outposts in navy caracal without much issues.

ECM is just a crutch that unskilled people whine about these days since in outposts (where 90% of the plex fights occur anyway) have exactly two jamming NPC's inside them, both in initial spawn. The horror!

And for this they want even that removed. Never mind that their plexes have massively better ewar in form npcs where each of them packs a potential damp on you and their cruiser spawns will reduce targeting range to 5km or so in a battlecruiser.