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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#461 - 2012-06-08 09:13:40 UTC
Here are three trivially easy modifications that would instantly make a LOT of more UI users stop complaining.


1) Shift click on Neocom Inventory spawns a new UI window with tree view.
This is a time saver to avoid people having to expand the current UI (usually item hangar) to show tree view and then hide it again.

2) Tree view: double click on an hangar / lab on tree view automatically spawns a new UI that includes all the divisions. This would be a massive time and click saver.

If you really program well like I like to, then make it "smart" so that it only opens hangar from 1 to N, where N is the last hangar with a name that is not the default.
So you just open the divisions the user gave them a name to. Useful for those using less than 7 divisions.

3) Super Real Estate saving UI window with illustrated screenshots about how to do it.

As of now we have a massive waste of space despite a tangible loss of functionality over the old version.

Let's start from the current window.

Total window height = 217 pixels
Useful icons inside inventory space = 119 pixels


This proves that with the current design there is an HUGE 45% waste of vertical space.

Now, we lived for years with a tiny container fill % hystogram. We can give up a bit on it and save plenty.

Furthermore two rows at the bottom are just bad design. I know you also have 1 button hidden somewhere on it, but it's not justification to use so much vertical space.
Not even Explorer does that. It asks for *optional* showing of more info before it shows a second row of information (guess why).

Now, I understand not willing to use the title bar (legacy code might refer to windows by "caption text" and thus break).

So this is my "keep everyone happy" solution.

New window height = 180 pixels
Wasted vertical space: 34%

This is 11% saved space per window and any power user will have at least 3 open all the time.


Now, please do these things. They will greatly improve the players experience.

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Sturmwolke
#462 - 2012-06-08 09:42:04 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

So this is my "keep everyone happy" solution.

New window height = 180 pixels
Wasted vertical space: 34%


I'd find some ways to hide that "Est. price" grafitti.
It's extraneous information that's simply not needed - most of the times.

Nice to have? yes ... when you have need of it.
Critical? NO.

What's critical are:
1) proper container name
2) amount of cargo space
3) the filter
4) the number of items in cargo
5) the various views (icons, list and details)

Keep the visual simple and tidy.
The rest looks good though, though personally I'd thin the cargo blue line a bit further.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#463 - 2012-06-08 10:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
new inventory still horrible to use.
I dont want all in one window and I dont want to deal with sh*tty tree views.

Before all was easy, 1 click and you were in the deliveries, corp hangar, the usual item hangar or ship hagar. And cargo just doubleclick in station background.
It was easy. Now there is a FUC*ING SH*TTY 1 window with a TREE VIEW to navigat through my stuff, which is simply plain FU*KING ANNOYING!!
Tried to separate them out but then for no apparent reason the windows are closed.
Just click on deliveries and then try to open items or corp hangar in separate window with shift-click, the entire damn window is CLOSED!!
WHAT THE FUQ IS THIS CRAP AGAIN CCP?
In the end god forbid you close one of previously painfully set up windows after you separated them out and collapsed the tree view, YOU HAVE TO RE-ENABLE THE TREE VIEW AND GO THROUGH ALL THIS F*CKING PROCEDURE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!111111111111

SCRAP THE NEW INTERFACE CCP ASAP! Give us 1 click access to our hangars back!!11111111

RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE
vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group
#464 - 2012-06-08 11:06:34 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:


Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way.


I hope you can come to terms with ,the fact that we all hate your file tree view
and it is the total stubbornness of CPP to change their ways that really gets us irritated

you promise us open communication, you promise us that you will listen to our input , then we realize we might as well be talking to a brick wall

here is an idea i posted earlier in another thread on this subject

put the tabs on the neo com panel one for ship, one for personal hangar , and one for corp each will open in a separate window with one click when you open the corp this way give us the old style with the tabs
now you have your precious unified inventory and you also have the view that we are used to allow the customers to choose
and keep track of which is used the most you want feedback this is the best way to get it
you could even have the listing in a drop down so we can choose what hangars to add to the neocom

Or you can continue stick your head in the sand ( or somewhere else the sun don't shine) and pretend there is not a problem and that your customers don't matter , that you are the all knowing alpha and omega and that your opinions matter more than your customers

PS having this inventory pop up in missions when you loot a can is irritating as frack at least give us back the loot all button
and don't make us open cargo hold unless we want to

CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#465 - 2012-06-08 11:40:46 UTC
So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Rengerel en Distel
#466 - 2012-06-08 11:56:34 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it.


Any chance you guys could lock these threads, and just communicate in the threads after each patch? Since all feedback will be based on what has been done, it would make it a lot easier on everyone i believe.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#467 - 2012-06-08 12:24:02 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it.


Any chance you guys could lock these threads, and just communicate in the threads after each patch? Since all feedback will be based on what has been done, it would make it a lot easier on everyone i believe.


Agreed. And CCP Goliath, for the crap you had to put up with in this thread, I think you deserve a cookie. Sadly, I don't think shipping food Internationally is smiled upon.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#468 - 2012-06-08 12:40:56 UTC
Makari Aeron wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it.


Any chance you guys could lock these threads, and just communicate in the threads after each patch? Since all feedback will be based on what has been done, it would make it a lot easier on everyone i believe.


Agreed. And CCP Goliath, for the crap you had to put up with in this thread, I think you deserve a cookie. Sadly, I don't think shipping food Internationally is smiled upon.


It would certainly be pretty mashed up by the time it got to me :)

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Konstantin Panfilov
Alpha Company
#469 - 2012-06-08 12:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Konstantin Panfilov
CCP Goliath wrote:
So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it.

About shortcut to DEV wrote in May 23-24 (in forum).
Today on June 8.
Passed 2 weeks.
Nice....
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#470 - 2012-06-08 12:49:52 UTC
Konstantin Panfilov wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it.

About shortcut to DEV wrote in May 23-24 (in forum).
Today on June 8.
Passed 2 weeks.
Nice....


I wrote about it yesterday

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Meytal
Doomheim
#471 - 2012-06-08 12:51:45 UTC
CCP still has a reference server with the old code available. They've admitted that, or at least Goliath did.

CCP doesn't believe the players when they say things were easier with the old method. This is in spite of the fact that the players play this game more than they do. They design and program the game. That's different than being an end-user.


CCP, if you really and truly want to make this a better inventory management interface, open up the reference server (or a copy of it) to players for a month or two. Disable the activation of modules, if you think people will just try to grief. Let us make images and videos of how we used to do things, and then we can make comparison images and videos of how we have to do those same things now.

Then, again assuming you aren't just stringing us along here until the noise dies down, you can see and understand what everyone is saying. Then you can understand the position players are coming from, and why this new inventory is a major step backwards.

CCP, Will you do this? Do you care about letting the players help you understand why they are complaining?

This could also call their bluff. If people are complaining just to complain, and the old inventory management interface was inferior to the new one, you could see that as well. And you could demonstrate that as well.


Note: "Can't do this" is not an acceptable answer. Virtual machines are cheap, and you already have a reference copy running as it is, so cloning that is easier than standing one up from backups. If you say this, it really means you won't bother spending the time to do it or don't think it's important enough to spend time setting this up, so just say that instead.
disasteur
disasterous industries
#472 - 2012-06-08 13:00:01 UTC
Makari Aeron wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
So I spoke to the team about the shortcut option I referred to earlier in the thread. They are going to look into the feasibility of this now and seemed pretty positive about it.


Any chance you guys could lock these threads, and just communicate in the threads after each patch? Since all feedback will be based on what has been done, it would make it a lot easier on everyone i believe.


Agreed. And CCP Goliath, for the crap you had to put up with in this thread, I think you deserve a cookie. Sadly, I don't think shipping food Internationally is smiled upon.



lol i was thinking that a load of crap deserved a load of crap, but then again thats just me thinking that
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#473 - 2012-06-08 13:00:56 UTC
Meytal wrote:
CCP still has a reference server with the old code available. They've admitted that, or at least Goliath did.

CCP doesn't believe the players when they say things were easier with the old method. This is in spite of the fact that the players play this game more than they do. They design and program the game. That's different than being an end-user.


CCP, if you really and truly want to make this a better inventory management interface, open up the reference server (or a copy of it) to players for a month or two. Disable the activation of modules, if you think people will just try to grief. Let us make images and videos of how we used to do things, and then we can make comparison images and videos of how we have to do those same things now.

Then, again assuming you aren't just stringing us along here until the noise dies down, you can see and understand what everyone is saying. Then you can understand the position players are coming from, and why this new inventory is a major step backwards.

CCP, Will you do this? Do you care about letting the players help you understand why they are complaining?

This could also call their bluff. If people are complaining just to complain, and the old inventory management interface was inferior to the new one, you could see that as well. And you could demonstrate that as well.


Note: "Can't do this" is not an acceptable answer. Virtual machines are cheap, and you already have a reference copy running as it is, so cloning that is easier than standing one up from backups. If you say this, it really means you won't bother spending the time to do it or don't think it's important enough to spend time setting this up, so just say that instead.


It wasn't an admission, we have a massive number of legacy builds because we need to test against previous functionality. It's also not a case of us not believing people, it would be naive to assume that people are actively lying to us about a system. We can't open our reference servers to the public however as they have sensitive data on them (all internal mirrors are unpruned and remirroring for a reference server would cause a bunch of conflicts). It's also not quite as simple as just whacking a VM based server up and letting that be public, you're just going to have to take my word for that.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#474 - 2012-06-08 13:13:45 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
functionality is not the same with this new ui as with the old.

4 corp hangers at a pos.

old system, right clcik 4 times all 28 hangers in 4 stacked windows. change to corp division 1, click each corp hanger wondow and you can see whats in all 4 hangers corp division 1 with 4 click, rinse repeat with all 4 corp hangers, division after division

new system shift click 28 times. 28 windows, now try to search through 4 corp hanger division 1's... go on, try.
now try division 2, 3 4, 5, 6 and 7...

oh it gets better, warp away( all 28 windows become your cargo window and dont auto close), come back.... do it again and again and again... i bet you jsut give up as its a nightmare

why have you removed right click menus that actually have a function ccp?


I might be reading this wrong, but I don't see why you aren't using the tree view for this - it gives you the same functionality as before, but in one window (or 4 if you prefer one for each hangar) and you just 1 click to each division.

Have you ever even used a corp hangar?


Yes in my player activity I have had repeated exposure to corp hangars. I still do, and have not had a large degree of trouble adjusting to the new inventory, this is why I'm asking what specific troubles you are having so that I can help you.



You ARE joking, RIGHT ?

If you had EVER played the game you would not have brought this crap in. Seriously.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#475 - 2012-06-08 13:16:04 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
To open a container via overview you double click it under the old system. Now that opens it in the tree view. If you want it open in a separate window, shift double click it.
Swap that around and some of us would be happy. Why does this abominiation of a UI try to take control of everything I do unless I hold up the holy cross (shift key)?


The default behaviour is now to use the tree view. For people that are not a fan of this, shift click is implemented to enable them to use separate windows. If you like I will ask the team if mapping these as shortcuts that individual users can customise is an option? (Note, even if this is possible, it will not change the default behaviour)

And you just pointed out the biggest problem with the whole mess. Thank you.


Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way.


And if not, then you are saying to bugger off then, yes ?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#476 - 2012-06-08 13:18:11 UTC
what a shortcut are they talking about? The whole new intentory UI is highly broken by itself, a single goddamn shortcut wont fix anything at all, unless its a shortcut to the old inventory system!!
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#477 - 2012-06-08 13:20:40 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:

On day one of the design process, why was tethering players to the shift key a better choice than the mouse-only right click menus and single-click neocom buttons that were efficient and convenient? I've enjoyed EVE's gameplay being mouse-heavy for a very long time. It's a shame to see that go.



You are assuming that there was a Day 2 in the design process. Sadly I think that you are overestimating CCP by quite a margin.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#478 - 2012-06-08 13:22:00 UTC
Dream Five wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:

Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way.


There's a reason why MANY softwares have moved the hell away from tree views and implemented tabs.

It's called basic, simple sense.

Writings are horizontal (western ones). That is, they take lots of horizontal real estate.

Tree views make already large windows unnecessarily larger by putting horizontal information to the left of the window.
Tabs make large windows functional because they take small vertical real estate and zero horizontal real estate.

The very fact you are going against all the accepted modern UI designs and find it good enough to "not going anywhere" is worrysome.

You are implementing outdated and unpractical concepts. The day the UI is bug fee, it will still be conceptually wrong.

See, many times I wanted to send CCP my curriculum but with decision makers taking this kind of directions and then sticking to them, I would feel embarassed. I would probably be bound to some "you won't publicly state your superiors borked grand time" legal agreement as well so I'd be put together the same people who can think these kinds of designs.

No way.



Yes. Tabs are better than trees for reasons outlined. Good reasoning here, worth paying good attention to this one.



Spot on dude
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#479 - 2012-06-08 13:23:38 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:

I'd like to hear that from CCP Hilmar.

Quote:
As would I.


Everyone would, but it's not going to happen, as there have not been enough cancelled subscriptions like there were in Incarna.
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#480 - 2012-06-08 13:28:11 UTC
It's probably been answered elsewhere but there are a lot on inventory related threads now.

Are any inventory filters I create stored client side or server side?

Fear God and Thread Nought