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Warfare & Tactics

 
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New Mechanics and NPC's

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Lord Ryan
True Xero
#201 - 2012-06-07 18:11:20 UTC
Been using guns, reppers and boosters on my fits. Am I the only onw who kills the rats? Guess I'm doing it wrong again!

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#202 - 2012-06-07 18:13:48 UTC
Na I kill them all as well...cant bring myself to fly anything that is not fit for pvp

Lord Ryan wrote:
Been using guns, reppers and boosters on my fits. Am I the only onw who kills the rats? Guess I'm doing it wrong again!

nom nom
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#203 - 2012-06-07 19:28:06 UTC
You can clear minors with a pvp frig/dessie.
You can clear mediums with a pvp cruiser/AF.
You can clear majors with a pvp BC/HAC.

I honestly do not understand why people would run anything but these.
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#204 - 2012-06-07 19:40:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dopified
Jones Bones wrote:
You can clear minors with a pvp frig/dessie. You can clear mediums with a pvp cruiser/AF. You can clear majors with a pvp BC/HAC. I honestly do not understand why people would run anything but these.


You are correct in saying this and i agree with you 100%. This can be done in pvp ships. My origional arguement was that caldari and minmatar can do this with all three plex sizes in a pvp t1 frig.

And i quote from my first post

"This is the number 1 problem because until this gets addressed Ammar and Gallente can not compete with other militia's even if we had same amount of players. They can stock up on t1 frigs and run this stuff all day cheap. For us you cannot us a pvp fit ship and go plex let alone the fact of even thinking of fighting in an enemy plex with small number gangs. You can with larger numbers."

This is what i want changed. Thier ability to run all plexes in a t1 pvp frig give a massive advantage to a side because you can stay out in the field deep in enamy territory with one ship that can run easily or stay and fight because you are already set up. You also dont use ammo. The ammar and gallente cannot do this. I believe that this makes a difference in people plexing because they have the option of fighting pvp or running plexes for LP when no pvp is around. Yes the gallente want to pvp more then plex but if we could do this you would see more numbers doing it. You can run a minor med and major and keep going because all the respawns will hit right after the last plex is done. This makes a big difference because in one ship type you can keep running a systems plexes 24/7 all hours without reshipping. THIS MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#205 - 2012-06-07 20:28:32 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
No one on either side is really defending their space, squids lost 1 last night, will lose two or three more by the weekend. gals will lose another by weekend. This **** will flip flop constantly. It's gotten a bit better since QCATS started getting that sweet minmatar LP for running caldari plexes :)

Gunthar X wrote:
After 10 pages I have a simple solution for the Gallente in this grand war.

I know its complicated so I will make sure to state it clearly and simply.


DEFEND YOUR SPACE.





Actually we do defend quite a lot, but Nag was an acceptable loss because no one really lives in that area. Aside from that it's not worth the wasted asset loss getting around Snuff Box's insta locking T3 camps that catch frigs & everything else.

We have however pushed forward in Black Rise and protect stuff there even before the patch aside from useless systems like Iwisoda or other wasted dead end systems.

We defend our space quite well, but under this new system you have to accept certain losses will happen once you get to a peak capture status, at that point it's not worth the wasted time to defend a isolated or non tactical system when that defense time is better spent else where. Hell Caldari had 2 more Gal systems Vulnerable on Tue night, but we couldn't be assed to capture them because they serve no purpose. Alamel & Als were both vulnerable (dunno if they still are) but both were left un-captured because we really didn't need to take them.

What we are tolling you guys on, is the fact you wont even defend systems one jump from your homes.
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#206 - 2012-06-07 20:39:04 UTC
Mutnin wrote:


What we are tolling you guys on, is the fact you wont even defend systems one jump from your homes.
... why would the Gallente defend them (for no LP rewards) when we could let them fall and then get sweet sweet LP just one jump from home for plexing it back?

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#207 - 2012-06-07 20:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Mutnin wrote:
What we are tolling you guys on, is the fact you wont even defend systems one jump from your homes.


Personally, I would prefer all systems one jump from nenna be caldari owned (except for Enaluri since FOOM live there) - then I would get my sweet sweet minmatar LP for plexing in them while still be close to home for fleet ops.

It'll be sad if Immuri/Hikko/Akidagi return to Gallente Control.

Pls do hurry up with Aldranette though - I would like another adjacent LP source.

Mutnin wrote:
Alamel & Als were both vulnerable (dunno if they still are) but both were left un-captured because we really didn't need to take them.


Ah, is that the official reason, wouldn't have had anything to do with the caldari fleet in Alamel getting wiped out...?

http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13591680

EDIT: This latter comment is a bit of a troll since I don't see you specifically in that fleet, but obviously some people in the Caldari militia cared about it.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#208 - 2012-06-08 01:10:39 UTC
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:
Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have.

Hey by both of our definitions, Gallente FW is winning! How about that?
SigmaPi
Ambivalent Inc
Coney Island Ski Club
#209 - 2012-06-08 02:18:21 UTC
A possible solution for defensive plexing might be to replace/add the LP to the system that otherwise would have been taken if the plex was captured offensively - this gives the defensive plexer that little bit of tangible reward without physically giving them anything.

So: If 10k LP would have been given to the group offensively plexing (5k from the bunker and 5k from space) then a defensive plex of the same level would regenerate that 5k LP into the bunker.

Thoughts?
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#210 - 2012-06-08 03:00:23 UTC
SigmaPi wrote:
...Thoughts?

If the amount returned to the bunker is equal to what is lost by offensive means, then every system need only be invested in once per flip-cycle .. makes for a very poor LP sink.
Defensive plexing is by its nature a lot less demanding, doubly so with docking denial for attackers, and while some sort of payment is in order for defensive work (time is spent regardless) then it does not have to be a lot .. must not expand on the FarmVille™ concept any further after all Big smile

25% percent of a given plex value into the pilots pocket and another 25% into the bunker (provided it has been drained by attack)., that should be more than enough to make defence worth while if/when the upgrade trees are made more relevant to FW.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#211 - 2012-06-08 03:19:09 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:
You can clear minors with a pvp frig/dessie.
You can clear mediums with a pvp cruiser/AF.
You can clear majors with a pvp BC/HAC.

I honestly do not understand why people would run anything but these.



Depends who you fly for. For amarr most pvp BCs will not be able to run major plex after major plex without docking to repair or get more cap boosters. Even with the restricted majors. The unrestricted majors you are looking at a pve bc or battleship.

Mediums can be run in certain shield tanked cruisers but almost any buffer armor tank is a no go.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Yuri Szarkhov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#212 - 2012-06-08 04:33:37 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:
Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have.

Hey by both of our definitions, Gallente FW is winning! How about that?


I'm curious about the length of your yardstick on that measurement.

It seems to me that since the "Rules of the War" changed (May 22) The Caldari have taken a sum of nine systems, one of which the Gallente recovered yesterday (Immuri) and two of which are Gallente Sovereign systems (Odamia and Ladistier.) So, that leaves six in the Caldari "neigbourhood" we've taken since the Inferno patch went live.

That's not so bad, considering how many (mysself included) expected the war to completely stagnate after Inferno.

In that time the Gallente have taken a total of three systems, one of which being Immuri, which we took only a few days prior. Two in the last two days.

It may also be worthy to note that none of the systems the Gallente militia took in this time contain stations.

So, eight systems taken and held versus three in the same period.

I'll grant that if our efforts stall and we cease the taking of systems and the Gallente pick up their pace this could be a "turning point." But, it really doesn't look that way.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#213 - 2012-06-08 04:45:33 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
I thought you were talking about momentum such as Gallente flipping two systems (Nagamennan and Immuri) in the past 24 hours, and destroying a Caldari fleet in Alamel that itself was trying to bust a bunker - and still haven't for whatever reason. (Probably because you didn't want that system anyways or something like that).

Edit: Or we're talking about scoreboard and in this case Gallente is now at +7 again.
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#214 - 2012-06-08 06:43:23 UTC
Dopified wrote:
My origional arguement was that caldari and minmatar can do this with all three plex sizes in a pvp t1 frig.


You are a MINMATAR, so what is the problem? By your own words you should be raking in the lp by taking all size plexes in your t1 frigate.
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#215 - 2012-06-08 15:55:17 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Depends who you fly for. For amarr most pvp BCs will not be able to run major plex after major plex without docking to repair or get more cap boosters. Even with the restricted majors. The unrestricted majors you are looking at a pve bc or battleship.

Mediums can be run in certain shield tanked cruisers but almost any buffer armor tank is a no go.


Buffer Armor ships are always a bad idea if you do not have a place to dock and repair.

We are pretty consistently running Majors in groups of cruisers/frigs but I can easily solo them in a standard combat Drake. A shield Harb or Zealot would do way more DPS than my Drake and clear a major even faster.

I used self repping AFs or Frigs pretty often too. Honestly, I don't see what the problem is. Plexes are easy to run with standard combat fits.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#216 - 2012-06-08 15:58:46 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:

Plexes are easy to run with standard combat fits.
Which is how it should be. The only question is how to make them easy to run with standard combat fits but make it a PITA to run with PvE frigs. Allow appropriate sized ships to have an advantage in the appropriate sized plex.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#217 - 2012-06-08 17:04:19 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:
Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have.

Redefining words is something you certainly do.

Bad Messenger wrote:
that does not take long.
Not disagreeing, but it needs to happen first. Big smile


Yea, still waiting when Gallente takes all systems, Andreus Ixibis already celebrated it so hard beforehand.
Nave Drallig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#218 - 2012-06-08 17:08:03 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
So lame, Allies shouldn't be able to help one another. That's madness!

Vaal Erit wrote:
Speaking of lame mechanics, I heard that people can exploit the LP mechanics by joining the minmatar faction (who is winning with t4 bonuses) and still run gallente plex to gain minmatar LP, which is worth more because gallente is at t1 right now. Thus gallente can leech off of the victorious minmatar even though they didn't do anything. Or maybe I'm wrong, I haven't tried that yet.


so i am curious how running caldari plex's is assisting your allies??
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#219 - 2012-06-08 17:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Nave Drallig wrote:
Princess Nexxala wrote:
So lame, Allies shouldn't be able to help one another. That's madness!

Vaal Erit wrote:
Speaking of lame mechanics, I heard that people can exploit the LP mechanics by joining the minmatar faction (who is winning with t4 bonuses) and still run gallente plex to gain minmatar LP, which is worth more because gallente is at t1 right now. Thus gallente can leech off of the victorious minmatar even though they didn't do anything. Or maybe I'm wrong, I haven't tried that yet.


so i am curious how running caldari plex's is assisting your allies??


The caldari militia is at WAR with the minmatar militia. You're hurting the enemy of the minmatar militia. Not to mention that the militias are ALLIED, helping friends and all that.

It's also quite amusing to see this being called an exploit: I don't think any QCATS have +5 to Caldari to permanently avoid rat aggro, and the documentation on FW has always been clear that allied factions can attack the dungeons of both of the militias they are at war with.
Nave Drallig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#220 - 2012-06-08 17:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Nave Drallig
chatgris wrote:
Nave Drallig wrote:
Princess Nexxala wrote:
So lame, Allies shouldn't be able to help one another. That's madness!

Vaal Erit wrote:
Speaking of lame mechanics, I heard that people can exploit the LP mechanics by joining the minmatar faction (who is winning with t4 bonuses) and still run gallente plex to gain minmatar LP, which is worth more because gallente is at t1 right now. Thus gallente can leech off of the victorious minmatar even though they didn't do anything. Or maybe I'm wrong, I haven't tried that yet.


so i am curious how running caldari plex's is assisting your allies??


The caldari militia is at WAR with the minmatar militia. You're hurting the enemy of the minmatar militia.

It's also quite amusing to see this being called an exploit: I don't think any QCATS have +5 to Caldari to permanently avoid rat aggro, and the documentation on FW has always been clear that allied factions can attack the dungeons of both of the militias they are at war with.



ok still dont see me refering to this as an exploit. just pointing out that you are trying to make something sound like your comming to the rescue when in reality your just taking advantage of that "sweet sweet mini LP" as one of your corp mates labeled it earlier.

also Chatgris is a char named Hatgris attached to you at all? caught him afk plexing last night in an altron of all things.