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New Mechanics and NPC's

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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#161 - 2012-06-06 04:49:08 UTC
Combination of "Kill them All!" requirement, removal of the bug generator and the timer band-aid Julius suggested: Post 31 of this thread

Solves most current plex/NPC balance issues, but will probably need quite a lot of Dev time so probably won't happen .. at least not until they set about expanding FW to include MOAR! factions (ie. Thar be Pirates!).
Mirana Niranne wrote:
Caldari outnumber us by something like 2000 pilots, yet we still kill more of them than they kill of us...

And in case of World War III the Chinese outnumber the US by one billion, right? The militia enrolment numbers has absolutely nothing to do with what is active/in space so for your own good, don't going down that blind alley in the future Big smile
Commissar Veldt wrote:
...on fear of homogeneous gameplay...

If we were to get a properly nuanced AI, then the NPCs themselves could be as powerful as Jove/Concord. Since the AI is lacking axing eWar is the only reliable way to ensure that they have as little say as possible in the plex pew (short of despawning them which would be abused to high heaven Smile).

Add your thoughts/concerns to the FW Plex NPC thread in the Features&Ideas forum sticky (goes for everyone else for that matter).
Yuri Szarkhov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-06-06 06:53:03 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Mutnin wrote:

The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.

I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. P


Thought it was twelve?

Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#163 - 2012-06-06 07:03:38 UTC
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Mutnin wrote:

The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.

I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. P


Thought it was twelve?

Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake.

When it gets to minus 1 you can say you're winning. Until then you're still losing.
Yuri Szarkhov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#164 - 2012-06-06 07:38:38 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Mutnin wrote:

The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.

I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. P


Thought it was twelve?

Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake.

When it gets to minus 1 you can say you're winning. Until then you're still losing.


Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#165 - 2012-06-06 08:10:09 UTC
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Mutnin wrote:

The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.

I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. P


Thought it was twelve?

Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake.

When it gets to minus 1 you can say you're winning. Until then you're still losing.


Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have.




Enjoy it well ya got it I guess.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#166 - 2012-06-06 09:27:05 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Mutnin wrote:

The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.

I'm sorry I can't hear you over the 7 Caldari systems we still dominate. P


Thought it was twelve?

Oh, sorry, that was a few days ago. My mistake.

When it gets to minus 1 you can say you're winning. Until then you're still losing.


that does not take long.
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#167 - 2012-06-06 11:32:33 UTC
Confirming Minmatar can now capture an Amarr Major Plex with an afterburner fitted armor repping rifter.

Whereby taking on a minmatar Major plex with anything less than a drake or at least two pilots is a lost cause.

Please fix this.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#168 - 2012-06-06 12:40:29 UTC
Nave Drallig wrote:





Flying for amarr I typically have to kill all the npcs in the plexes I am in, and it still seems like pve to me.


They know, they just dont want to lose the advantage that they hold. I am with gallente and ammar because it is uneven. I still say put missile spams in our plexes then lets see who whines on these forum post. I bet the ammar and gallente would just not post at all or troll because it would be even. EVEN.[/quote]

You guys would just complain about something else not being fair. I still find it funny that in a few weeks since the patch Gals have gone from trolling Caldari because you expected to get a easy win after the FW update to complaining about losing and blaming it on NPC's.

You guys need to get off your asses and fight back. You guys are very lazy and unwilling to leave your blob behind.. That is why you are losing. The war front has changed and your blobs & sitting in 1 or 2 system with 30 or 40 of your closest buddies, will not help you.


The unexpected truth of the new plexing system is it has given a buff to smaller gang fighting, something Caldari has been doing for quite some time now. Caldari aren't running around with AFK condors farming plexes, winning the war with noob alts.. The bulk of Caldari's I see out are running minors in Dessies/frigs with PVP fits and fighting over plexes vs the few Gals that show up or local pies.

Gals on other hand sit in their home system do almost no defense and cry on forums about NPC's being unfair expecting to just undock 20 or 30 guys to chase a random noob, thinking that will win the war for them.

The simple fact is, you are now losing because you are lazy.. Not because of NPC's or noob alts farming plexes.[/quote]




Completely agree... we were rolling in a fleet of 8 BC or lower ships in nen area and we couldnt even get them to undock. and they complain about afk plex farmers.....0.o
[/quote]

This is a pretty funny comment especially from a NC DOT group that has come to Caldari Militia and then super blobbed the Gal's. I mean well done for the attack boys but then you go and post up that we blob I mean come on WOW.
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#169 - 2012-06-06 13:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dopified
Commissar Veldt wrote:
Whether or not one faction has the advantage over others, it doesnt seem to have stopped the Federation in having a great deal of success. You have managed to remove the State Protectorate entirely from Enaluri (and hold the system), capture numerous strategic station systems in Black Rise (and hold them) and can rally highly organised fleets to successfully defend/capture complexes.
My point being that even if it is un-balanced, it cant be so much that it is stopping the disadvantaged side from not only participating, but also succeeding in Faction Warfare.
I dont have a Gallente alt and have never captured Minmatar complexes so I can not say that dopfied is definately right or horribly wrong. I am sure that Faction Warfare and complexes can be improved further with more fixes/tweaks/adjustments on all sides but to treat it as a dramatically un-balanced feature of EVE is perhaps a bit too over the top? As I said, the Federation still get good results in Militia overall so hopefully CCP will take this into account before making any major changes.

I do hope this 'temporary re-balancing' removal of electronic warfare isnt the start of a new trend... Im sure nobody would enjoy all having to fly the same ship types into generic complex #03 to destroy the same NPC's/pilots who use the same turrets to hit for the same damage type just so we can all sit comfortably in the knowledge that we are all on a completely equal playing field...
Dopified, you have made a fair point and CCP have obviously heard this argument quite a lot of times by the sound of it. I am sure there is room for some more changes in Faction Warfare (there always is right?) but I just think the evidence offered from killboards (QCATS recent achievement), systems contested/occupied and my own personal experiences in militia (getting raped on a regular basis by your pilots) says that this issue is perhaps being blown slightly out of proportion by the general militia forum populace?

Let me please add that I am not against having the EW re-balanced in complexes at all.

Anyway, from a Caldari point of view, there is one bonus to having EW removed from complexes...
I can finally stop wasting a mid slot on a sensor booster. Extra Invul Field II anyone?

Veldt


I can understand your position on this and actually respect you for stating actual truths here. The point that I am trying to make is that it is unbalanced. It should not be the job of CCP to make it easier or harder for one side of faction warefare. No matter how little of an advantage or disadvantage you think it is. The advantage should always come from THE PLAYER. Some of us in militia have put forth an effort and have given ourselves the advantage by tactics and hard work. When it comes to plexes and NEW mechanics, when a caldari can run a major plex in a pvp fit t1 frig deep in gallente space or close turn around and be ready to fight us is unfair. Gallente cannot go into a caldari MAJOR plex with this and have the option of fighting afterwards or even in the plex as stated and shown in my first post. Lets also get it straight I have posted that EW NPC's are not the problem. I think they are a great idea. The problem is the incoming Damage for the gallente with missile spams. No matter how much we speed tank a major you take massive amounts of damage thus having very few options when fitting a ship to run plexes, thus in turn alot of people can not go out sit in a plex and when a fight comes along be ready to engage anytime. With station lockouts we cannot move past our lines and pvp effectively thus the reason why some of our guys dont go 2-3 jumps past thier home when plexing and pvping. STATION LOCKOUT MEANS WE CANNOT RESHIP EASY TO FIGHT WHEN YOU DO COME.

If the gallente start losing and it is shown that the caldari start winning in PVP and PLEXING would you advocate for the caldari to swap the plexing mechanics thus giving gallente speed tanking so that they can have an advantage and caldari to take massive missiles spams???? Is this what i am hearing? Again I do not think it is CCP's place to give advantages to one side or the other, it needs to be equal in all regards. The advantage SHOULD ALWAYS BE PLAYER ACHIEVED.

AND NO DAMAR NOT THROUGH GAME MECHANIC EXPLOITING (Now seen as Joanna Ramirez on forums)

Veldt gets respect from me even though i am not on the same page with this idea.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#170 - 2012-06-06 13:04:38 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Yuri Szarkhov wrote:
Winning is in the momentum, which we certainly have.

Redefining words is something you certainly do.

Bad Messenger wrote:
that does not take long.
Not disagreeing, but it needs to happen first. Big smile
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#171 - 2012-06-06 13:14:26 UTC
Once again.....your systems are not being lost to npc types. Dopified might sit and say "you have an advantage" but the truth is no one in gallente side is willing to put the time into capturing systems or defending it.

If you want to complain about NPC differences maybe we should start complaining about LP rewards and them not "being balanced"

The term "afk plexing" cannot be used for mediums and majors. IF someone were truly afk plexing you should have no problem killing them. The fact that they leave when you come in confirms they are not afk plexing.

I do not understand why this is hard to comprehend (for dopified I do understand why he cant comprehend it) but the others.

You are saying you are losing your systems because of a NPC difference......that YOU have nothing in your aresenal of weapons or ideas to counter a condor (which I still have yet to see) taking an entire system all on his own. I forgot those condor pilots are the ones taking ACTIVE systems....... Roll

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#172 - 2012-06-06 13:37:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
Dopified wrote:
thus giving gallente speed tanking so that they can have an advantage and caldari to take massive missiles spams???? Is this what i am hearing? Again I do not think it is CCP's place to give advantages to one side or the other, it needs to be equal in all regards. The advantage SHOULD ALWAYS BE PLAYER ACHIEVED.


You have simply argued that you dont want AFK plexing with no skill alts (and no, I have not seen condors speed tanking either) and think that speed tanking is wrong because it can be done. Yet I have not yet heard you say single bad word about that low-skilled afk tanking incursus pilots coming from gallente side.

How do these differ from each other? Is "active tanking" more manly option of afking than "speed tanking" and thus justified? It's not like any t1 vanilla t1 frigate stays in a fight in a plex anyway if it's tanking full npc spawn at the same time (unless it's something like Bantam coming to attack it)
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#173 - 2012-06-06 13:38:01 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Once again.....your systems are not being lost to npc types. Dopified might sit and say "you have an advantage" but the truth is no one in gallente side is willing to put the time into capturing systems or defending it.

If you want to complain about NPC differences maybe we should start complaining about LP rewards and them not "being balanced"

The term "afk plexing" cannot be used for mediums and majors. IF someone were truly afk plexing you should have no problem killing them. The fact that they leave when you come in confirms they are not afk plexing.

I do not understand why this is hard to comprehend (for dopified I do understand why he cant comprehend it) but the others.

You are saying you are losing your systems because of a NPC difference......that YOU have nothing in your aresenal of weapons or ideas to counter a condor (which I still have yet to see) taking an entire system all on his own. I forgot those condor pilots are the ones taking ACTIVE systems....... Roll


Well I can only fault myself for answering this with wasted time. Lets see what AFK Plexing means. Yes it is if you walk away from your keyboard and dont look at it. BUT AFK plexing is also when you hit the orbit button and DO NOTHING for the rest of the time there. If you just fold your arms and watch the screen while your toon orbits and gets the LP then you have AFK Plexed. Yes you can see the enemy coming and warp off. But this is still AFK plexing. We have to manage damage coming in and kill NPC's you just have to click the orbit button and watch.

Again funny how NO minmatar militia is commenting on this topic that i have seen but i could be wrong there are alot of post. Funny how ammar are agreeing on this even though they are at war with us. Funny how Caldari say this is not an ISSUE.

So to CCP, since we have seen post that the caldari do not think this is an issue as stated here can you just swap NPC's in gallente and caldari plexes. I dont even care if they are still labeled the same lets just switch them if caldari say this is not a problem. If you could also keep track of the Victory points on both offensive and defensive before and after the switch it would be nice to see this. Again caldari might still plex high but lets see how many are offensive compared to defensive and lets see which toons start going from offensive to defensive after this.

Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's

PLEASE post up if you like this IDEA
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#174 - 2012-06-06 13:43:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
Dopified wrote:
Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's


You are living in your own reality. I have already said afk plexing is stupid but you are not willing to admit your side is doing it almost as much as caldari. Only difference really is that your side has to shoehorn afk plexing to new permarunning repper incursus hull while caldari have more options for afk plexing.

In both cases it does not matter what comes to challenge your plexing. If you are simply speed or repair tanking npcs without killing them, you are not in position to engage hostile vessels anyway.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#175 - 2012-06-06 13:50:00 UTC
Dopified wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
Once again.....your systems are not being lost to npc types. Dopified might sit and say "you have an advantage" but the truth is no one in gallente side is willing to put the time into capturing systems or defending it.

If you want to complain about NPC differences maybe we should start complaining about LP rewards and them not "being balanced"

The term "afk plexing" cannot be used for mediums and majors. IF someone were truly afk plexing you should have no problem killing them. The fact that they leave when you come in confirms they are not afk plexing.

I do not understand why this is hard to comprehend (for dopified I do understand why he cant comprehend it) but the others.

You are saying you are losing your systems because of a NPC difference......that YOU have nothing in your aresenal of weapons or ideas to counter a condor (which I still have yet to see) taking an entire system all on his own. I forgot those condor pilots are the ones taking ACTIVE systems....... Roll


Well I can only fault myself for answering this with wasted time. Lets see what AFK Plexing means. Yes it is if you walk away from your keyboard and dont look at it. BUT AFK plexing is also when you hit the orbit button and DO NOTHING for the rest of the time there. If you just fold your arms and watch the screen while your toon orbits and gets the LP then you have AFK Plexed. Yes you can see the enemy coming and warp off. But this is still AFK plexing. We have to manage damage coming in and kill NPC's you just have to click the orbit button and watch.

Again funny how NO minmatar militia is commenting on this topic that i have seen but i could be wrong there are alot of post. Funny how ammar are agreeing on this even though they are at war with us. Funny how Caldari say this is not an ISSUE.

So to CCP, since we have seen post that the caldari do not think this is an issue as stated here can you just swap NPC's in gallente and caldari plexes. I dont even care if they are still labeled the same lets just switch them if caldari say this is not a problem. If you could also keep track of the Victory points on both offensive and defensive before and after the switch it would be nice to see this. Again caldari might still plex high but lets see how many are offensive compared to defensive and lets see which toons start going from offensive to defensive after this.

Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's

PLEASE post up if you like this IDEA



Ok so you are simply mad at the mechanics and using a disillusioned argument to say that we are "afk plexing" I can also say you afk mission since you use an interceptor to speed tank your missions and a bomber to simply cloak and shoot.

You think caldari can just orbit a button and walk away without watching damage. Hell I was "speed tanking" a major plex last night and hit deep armor. You cant say it is "afk plexing" I am putting my time into plexing a system with a ship that has a disadvantage of not being able to fight and I still have to sit and watch, I also do not have the ability to dock up in a station a repair.

Seriously dude go join Ceaseran and his whining in the other threads. We have no just uncovered that umadbro


I have speed tanked gallente plexes without a problem as well. The problem that the gallente have is jamming not missile spam. I know this because I flew gallente.

Just get some of your own pilots out and actually do something.

BTW thanks for odamia, our afk condors totally did it on their own Roll

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#176 - 2012-06-06 14:03:31 UTC
Again as stated bolster you know how to make it personal and CRAP on those that have been good to you. Any reason for this besides me stating the truth?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#177 - 2012-06-06 14:06:41 UTC
It is just as absurd for a Caldari player in a rifter to be able to speed tank a major as it is for a Gallente player to speed tank a plex in an incursus. I demand the Federation hire NPC commanders that don't surrender simply because somebody in a tiny T1 frigate orbits a button for a set period of time. These guys need to grow a spine! Big smile
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#178 - 2012-06-06 14:07:55 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Dopified wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
Once again.....your systems are not being lost to npc types. Dopified might sit and say "you have an advantage" but the truth is no one in gallente side is willing to put the time into capturing systems or defending it.

If you want to complain about NPC differences maybe we should start complaining about LP rewards and them not "being balanced"

The term "afk plexing" cannot be used for mediums and majors. IF someone were truly afk plexing you should have no problem killing them. The fact that they leave when you come in confirms they are not afk plexing.

I do not understand why this is hard to comprehend (for dopified I do understand why he cant comprehend it) but the others.

You are saying you are losing your systems because of a NPC difference......that YOU have nothing in your aresenal of weapons or ideas to counter a condor (which I still have yet to see) taking an entire system all on his own. I forgot those condor pilots are the ones taking ACTIVE systems....... Roll


Well I can only fault myself for answering this with wasted time. Lets see what AFK Plexing means. Yes it is if you walk away from your keyboard and dont look at it. BUT AFK plexing is also when you hit the orbit button and DO NOTHING for the rest of the time there. If you just fold your arms and watch the screen while your toon orbits and gets the LP then you have AFK Plexed. Yes you can see the enemy coming and warp off. But this is still AFK plexing. We have to manage damage coming in and kill NPC's you just have to click the orbit button and watch.

Again funny how NO minmatar militia is commenting on this topic that i have seen but i could be wrong there are alot of post. Funny how ammar are agreeing on this even though they are at war with us. Funny how Caldari say this is not an ISSUE.

So to CCP, since we have seen post that the caldari do not think this is an issue as stated here can you just swap NPC's in gallente and caldari plexes. I dont even care if they are still labeled the same lets just switch them if caldari say this is not a problem. If you could also keep track of the Victory points on both offensive and defensive before and after the switch it would be nice to see this. Again caldari might still plex high but lets see how many are offensive compared to defensive and lets see which toons start going from offensive to defensive after this.

Again it is ok to do this CCP. Damar BM Bolster and so many others have stated this is not an issue and that this does not matter. PLEASE SWITCH THE NPC's

PLEASE post up if you like this IDEA



Ok so you are simply mad at the mechanics and using a disillusioned argument to say that we are "afk plexing" I can also say you afk mission since you use an interceptor to speed tank your missions and a bomber to simply cloak and shoot.

You think caldari can just orbit a button and walk away without watching damage. Hell I was "speed tanking" a major plex last night and hit deep armor. You cant say it is "afk plexing" I am putting my time into plexing a system with a ship that has a disadvantage of not being able to fight and I still have to sit and watch, I also do not have the ability to dock up in a station a repair.

Seriously dude go join Ceaseran and his whining in the other threads. We have no just uncovered that umadbro


I have speed tanked gallente plexes without a problem as well. The problem that the gallente have is jamming not missile spam. I know this because I flew gallente.

Just get some of your own pilots out and actually do something.

BTW thanks for odamia, our afk condors totally did it on their own Roll



DotLan tells the story of the mighty battle of odamia lol

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Odamia
http://clip2net.com/s/20vic
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#179 - 2012-06-06 14:09:53 UTC
Dopified wrote:
Again as stated bolster you know how to make it personal and CRAP on those that have been good to you. Any reason for this besides me stating the truth?



just on you

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#180 - 2012-06-06 14:11:44 UTC
What your trying to say Damar/Bolster is ...
mouth breathing re re with no sp afking a gal major == max skilled incursus while micromanaging cap/reps to complete caldari major


I mean I guess that makes sense if your the re re...

nom nom