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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

First post First post
Author
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2012-06-05 08:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcos Vandymion
Lucian Anell wrote:

Oh .... and one other suggestion. Why does the inventory forcefully drag me into another sub-folder (e.g. the item hangar) if I drag items there from somewhere else and just hoover over said sub-folder for a second to long? Folders should open when I click on them, not when my mouse cursor is just over them for two seconds .... or at least have the option to turn this "feature" off. Makes dragging stuff around rather cumbersome in my opinion.
Lucian


I don't think it that much of an issue - it just mimics the funtonality of the windows explorer here. Ever tried dragging stuff around in your start menu?
Can't comment on much else as I didn't even try to adjust it yet. I just CBA so far and I'll probably just wait another few weeks. Not like reloading ammo needs me to open the inventory - I can rightclick my guns =).


+1 to Trinkets friend for best post on threadnaught (followed by Chribbas xD)

Trinkets friend wrote:

The problem as I see it, is the Unified Inventory is too broad. It is trying to gather too much information around the player in space, display it in a flat format, and this then loads too much data into the program at once. Every item has a massive list of attributes, and the UI seems to want to put all of that at your fingertips for EVERYTHING all at once. Nice, in theory, but somewhere it is breaking down and the game chokes on this flood of information.

As far as I am concerned the UI could load the assets too - that way at least all the inventories would be unified into one window. The procedure for loading said information would certainly have to be worked on (e.g.: allways have "Assets" as a possible tree but minimized and unloaded - after all you don't look stuff up there that often. At least I don't).
Josef Djugashvilis
#102 - 2012-06-05 08:49:32 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
One thing I can mention as a positive is that when copying bookmarks to give to allies for, say, hopping fleets into wormholes, this is now faster with the UI changes.

More broadly, you whiners need to grow up and deal with it as adults. Calling CCP idiots is not the way to go forward with this. By all means, list your problems and complaints (even I am guilty of not using the bug reporter as much as I should; but to be fair all of these issues were reported by corpmates) but don't just come onto the forums and sperge crap about how you are going to unsub, demand refunds, demand your pound of flesh.

The fact you are having a suboptimal experience is as much down to you not engaging as much as you should have with playtesting as it is with CCP not listening during the development and testing cycle on SiSi and pulling the trigger too early. It didn't break the game except for hardcore industrialists, but from my POV they have just found workarounds to deficiencies in the old UI which they have made habits, and are now complaining because it is hard to retrain habits.

This is true for me, too. I was used to right-click open new instance. Now I shift-click. OMG, so hard! The issues is in-front-of keyboard, not in the coding backend in this case.

The issues which really matter here are the freezes, the disconnects, the hanging and the load times which this Unified Inventory has brought about. Ideally, the game shouldn't cark it when you swap ships with an open cargo. it should close the cargo automatically, stop pinging the database for information on each and every damn item on grid with you (seriously) and then smoothly get into the new ship.

The game as it stands now, going on a decade old, is much more complex than it once was. The Unified Inventory is a way of flattening this information (as a dude who works with databases, I know what kind of performance benefits this can have) which in theory, should improve the experience.

The problem as I see it, is the Unified Inventory is too broad. It is trying to gather too much information around the player in space, display it in a flat format, and this then loads too much data into the program at once. Every item has a massive list of attributes, and the UI seems to want to put all of that at your fingertips for EVERYTHING all at once. Nice, in theory, but somewhere it is breaking down and the game chokes on this flood of information.

The devs and programmers, meanwhile, have to put up with presumably adult men acting like three year old girls who've had their ponies taken away for cleaning. Grow up, or actually unsub before telling us you will. Which you won't - misery loves company, and all the whiners are pretty bloody miserable.



Perhaps you should inform Tippia et al that they should have informed CCP of the issues with the inventory system before it was released.

This is not a signature.

Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#103 - 2012-06-05 09:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jackie Fisher
CCP Explorer wrote:
We honestly thought we were ready.
Shocked

Pretty frightening statement, especially as a lot of the fixes you have been working on have been performance related.

How did your internal testing miss so many noticeable performance issues and what steps will be taken to prevent this happening again?

Fear God and Thread Nought

Disdaine
#104 - 2012-06-05 09:45:23 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:

More broadly, you whiners need to grow up and deal with it as adults.

The fact you are having a suboptimal experience is as much down to you

It didn't break the game except for hardcore industrialists

The issues which really matter here are the freezes, the disconnects, the hanging and the load times

somewhere it is breaking down and the game chokes on this flood of information.


Roll
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#105 - 2012-06-05 11:33:04 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Hey, sorry we've been hogging up all your time trying to get you to fix something we didn't want released yet. I'm sure most people would have been fine waiting until the next main release for this instead of the half-assed version we've been dealing with.


Lol
Dream Five
Renegade Pleasure Androids
#106 - 2012-06-05 11:36:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dream Five
Jackie Fisher wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
We honestly thought we were ready.
Shocked

Pretty frightening statement, especially as a lot of the fixes you have been working on have been performance related.

How did your internal testing miss so many noticeable performance issues and what steps will be taken to prevent this happening again?


Sounds like some dude came and said.. you know what the UI for CATIA (software used for industrial design such as for Boeing airplanes, automotive industry, ships and other heavy duty stuff) is too complicated. I'm gonna rewrite it real quick now, a couple months and make it real simple. There you go, 1 window does everything. You can place boxes and rotate and move them. What else do you need? Then he tests some stuff locally, ignores a bunch of power user feedback because he can't be bothered and its all "good". The coder has no even fn remote clue obviously what the software really does and how its used. He is not a power user and 99.99% of users are super power users. It's not a freaking Paint for windows duh. Then it's unleashed on tens of thousands of people who know 10000000x more about the software than the programmer who did the UI work. End result? Ugh.
Steijn
Quay Industries
#107 - 2012-06-05 11:42:51 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
This is not the reason. We honestly thought we were ready.


Please explain to me how you thought you were ready considering the amount of negative feedback this inventory received from SiSi? Did everyone that posted feedback waste their time, because it certainly looks that way to a lot of people on here.

Also with regards to you needing to get back on track with your scheduled releases, i presume this is in the hope that you can gain a few new subs to cover the ones that have left/are leaving through this latest debacle.

IMO your priorities are completely wrong. You should be trying to keep yiour existing customer base before trying to attract new ones.
Kern Hotha
#108 - 2012-06-05 11:43:37 UTC
The CCP developers who have worked on the inventory have shown remarkable patience in dealing with their whining customers. I may not understand why you chose this part of the UI to change on a whim but I think I'm used to it now, and I definitely appreciate how much time you've spent reading the complaints and making changes.

We distinguish the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter who makes no demands on himself.

Jose Ortega y Gasset (1883 - 1955)

zerokmatrix
Federation Mission Acedemy
#109 - 2012-06-05 11:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: zerokmatrix
Dear CCP,

I fully realise that this thread is already 6 pages long and based on past observations it will no doubt have already stopped being read by you and the chance of any more dev replies here is down to a fraction of 1 percent. But i will post my post anyway and then cross my fingers that someone in Iceland reads it.

Wrecks, Cargo Containers (that do not belong to me or my corp), Mission Containers (e.g. The damaged Heron in World Collide), Radar and Magnetometric site containers.

These are things that DO NOT belong to me so why are they opening in MY inventory?

When salvaging or exploring I do not want or need the whole inventory to open every single time I try to loot a wreck or container no matter how much you speed it up from it's current asmatic snail speed (seriously the whole client should not come to a complete stop when you open a wreck!!!!)

Please, please, please, separate these items from MY inventory. You have turned these things that I loved doing into something that makes me want to put my fist through the screen.

I am now crossing my fingers in the hope that this is read and acted upon.

Regards
zerokmatrix

PS.

profundus fossura
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#110 - 2012-06-05 11:50:41 UTC
Disdaine wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:

More broadly, you whiners need to grow up and deal with it as adults.

The fact you are having a suboptimal experience is as much down to you

It didn't break the game except for hardcore industrialists

The issues which really matter here are the freezes, the disconnects, the hanging and the load times

somewhere it is breaking down and the game chokes on this flood of information.


Roll



I'm a pretty hardcore industrialist and I prefer the new UI for manufacturing and invention I find it makes finding and sorting materials a lot easier and now I have got used to flying an orca for mining with the new system I am using a lot less screen space and am able to move ore around,access hangers and ship bay just as easily, the load time is a bit of a pain and glad to hear that is being worked on.

most of the frustration I have experienced has been changing the habits I got into over the last 3-4 years - but I am adult enough to be able to recognize and deal with that.

Ok there are a few improvements to be made e.g. when salvaging etc but I understand this is a fairly major change to decade old code and some teething problems are to be expected - and the bugs are getting fixed pretty fast.
Udonor
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-06-05 11:54:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Obviously CCP has done as much as they can to "Fix" inventory in as short a period as possible. Too bad some issues labeled as fixed weren't fixed to the level CCP project members desired. But then I think they are going farther than CCP as a whole should.

It is time for CCP to move back to more normal release schedule. Its time for everyone to recognize that fixing some UI issues needs to be given a long time on the back burner. Allow for sanity in design, coding and priorities rather than panic mode.

In the mean time CCP needs to consider telling people that some issues WON'T Be fixed because they are too fundamental and the time spent wouldn't improve the game enough to be worth while.

Real PVP players only need inventories big enough to fit and hold their current ships. If your inventory was that reasonable size,performance would be just fine. That is what CPC tested against and they succeeded beautifully. All you other whiners are asking for stuff the game really doesn't need to support. Choose industry and mining and you simply should pay the devil's price a carebear should expect when abusing the game that way.

*** In fact I suggest CCP tell industrialists that the UI was an intentional NERF just like ship nerfs. A slow UI in fact does reflect a more realistic industrial process. Frankly all production except ammo should probably be slowed further. Ships losses should be meaningful not back in a hour with the same ship fit. Maybe the new UI can discourage so many players from doing Industry and mining -- so that losses can finally outpace production and bring forward the exciting possibility of actually winning EVE (last corp standing).

* A slow and unreliable UI also stops unrealistic feats like haulers snatching ore from flipped cans jsut as they instawarp or ninja bystanders in hi sec snatching loot from honest gankers and instawarping away with the profits. ***


Basically if you need a fast reliable inventory -- you aren't doing enough PVP and playing EVE the way it should be played.

I think CCP should survey players by EVE career/playing style before putting more effort into this issue. I highly suspect most decent PVP players are pretty satisfied and that only bad PVP players looking for bizarre edges and exploits care about further UI improvements. And the core of complaints will come down to a tiny minority of carebear industrialists and miners who warp the game when anyone listens to their needs. Again choosing that career in EVE is equal to choosing to suffer, so CCP should more or less let you do what you can in EVE based on an interface focused purely on the needs of the majority of EVE players flying the CCP vision of action and not waste time catering to a sad whiney self-torturing minority building piles of treasure for no specific end purpose.
Tispar
Lonestar Distribution Inc.
#112 - 2012-06-05 11:54:21 UTC
Feature restoration request: On the Ships and Items hangar tab in station, there used to be the number of items present in each hangar listed between parenthesis, example "Ships (7)" or "Items (321)". This was also present on containers.
Can that number be restored? It's a great visual indicator of 1. how much stuff I have in a certain location, 2. If stacking is taking place, and 3.when I hit the 1000 items per container limit.

If this could be added to the Index tree per ship/hangar/container without having too much of a performance impact that would be nice too.

zerokmatrix
Federation Mission Acedemy
#113 - 2012-06-05 12:07:43 UTC
Tispar wrote:
Feature restoration request: On the Ships and Items hangar tab in station, there used to be the number of items present in each hangar listed between parenthesis, example "Ships (7)" or "Items (321)". This was also present on containers.
Can that number be restored? It's a great visual indicator of 1. how much stuff I have in a certain location, 2. If stacking is taking place, and 3.when I hit the 1000 items per container limit.

If this could be added to the Index tree per ship/hangar/container without having too much of a performance impact that would be nice too.



This

PS.

Logicycle
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#114 - 2012-06-05 12:10:23 UTC
I have high hopes for June 19 Smile
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2012-06-05 12:13:27 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
[snip]

Perhaps you should inform Tippia et al that they should have informed CCP of the issues with the inventory system before it was released.

You mean like this? Or this?

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst

Udonor
Doomheim
#116 - 2012-06-05 12:15:07 UTC
Tispar wrote:
Feature restoration request: On the Ships and Items hangar tab in station, there used to be the number of items present in each hangar listed between parenthesis, example "Ships (7)" or "Items (321)". This was also present on containers.
Can that number be restored? It's a great visual indicator of 1. how much stuff I have in a certain location, 2. If stacking is taking place, and 3.when I hit the 1000 items per container limit.

If this could be added to the Index tree per ship/hangar/container without having too much of a performance impact that would be nice too.



already there - just open your eyes and look around the UI for the new position of such info

No I am not going give you any more hints you lazy *$&%^ -- LOL
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
Controlled Chaos
#117 - 2012-06-05 12:20:48 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:


ohh mate u r really a whinny bitcx. Stop it pls my head hurts. The inventory is just fine with little tweaking to be done. I mean it is really not so hard to understand it and when u do u ll realize that u manage things even faster. Or even better pls unsubscribe, but just before doing it send me all your stuff.

OMG


You have obviously never done any sort of serious industrial action before.
Do you realize that getting all the indies to unsub causes the prices on everything to go up.
I'm starting to doubt that there is an inflation problem as opposed to a massive exodus of industrial players leaving the game due the excessive ganking and idiotic UI changes to make inventory manipulation an exercise in frustration. No wonder people are disinterested in having anything to do with industry or mining in EVE anymore.
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-06-05 12:24:03 UTC
Logicycle wrote:
I have high hopes for June 19 Smile


I have NOT. Because CCP denies every statement WHAT exact will be re implemented again. From the start of this crapsh!t, till now. ABSOLUTE NO statement what they will do next. They just push out some patches and write the patch notes 5 minutes before deploying. Shocked

I want to know what comes next. What kind of improvements will you have for me? What kind of changes will you do to make me happy again? It must be the whole old UI. I hate this daft sh!t from Arrow and Optimal. Especially that NO ONE of these guys ever asked me, how to change it but claim that a lot of peoples want these changes we have now! This is an out-and-out lie!
Read the forums and say "All players want exact these changes" Mr. 'arrogant' Arrow!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#119 - 2012-06-05 12:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Perhaps you should inform Tippia et al that they should have informed CCP of the issues with the inventory system before it was released.
Perhaps you should inform yourself about the topic being discussed before posting.

Please go back and read the sisi test threads (multiple), the devblog comment threads (several), the official GD thread on the topic (numerous, but one that the devs themselves commented in and referred everyone to), and the dev-initiated UI proposal thread in F&I. Then come back here and apologise for your shameful display.


edit: less rage about blatant idiocy and ignorance.
Maul555
Xen Investments
#120 - 2012-06-05 12:49:51 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Maul555 wrote:
I would like to congratulate CCP on getting this thing under control enough to get my mining workflow back to mostly normal. I am still dealing with a lack of right click options on my orca, having to instead open all of my bays from 3 different locations... The windows remembering themselves is making this tolerable. The shift+click nonsense is still frustrating me, and I really really really wish you guys would abandon it altogether for more conventional methods, like double click. I am looking forward to more fixes and I dearly hope that my concerns are among them.

oh yeah; and tabs!


Yeah, we'll make it easier to use. Added to what you're talking about, we're looking at adding bays to the neocom, so if you drag the drone bay to the neocom, you can access it from there when it's available, it's kind of cool. Anyway, on it Big smile



Cool beans. Glad to hear it.