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New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

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Citrute
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2012-06-05 04:00:55 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Hey, sorry we've been hogging up all your time trying to get you to fix something we didn't want released yet. I'm sure most people would have been fine waiting until the next main release for this instead of the half-assed version we've been dealing with.


Quoting for truth
Citrute
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2012-06-05 04:04:12 UTC
Jonuts wrote:
Quote:

We did not ignore feedback at all. In some cases we didn't agree. In some cases we did agree and made changes. In some cases we felt that players weren't even giving the new proposed way of doing things a chance and that it might just be a matter of getting used to. It's certain that we didn't get everything right the first time around. That's why we have iteration.


You're right. It's totally our fault. We're all too ******* stupid to tell the difference between "This is different" and "This is garbage". I apologize. I didn't mean to offend your superior sensibilities. How dare us lowly people who actually have to USE this system criticize it.


Quoting from other thread as its still extremely relevant.
lixxi chixxi
Leper Outcast Unclean
#83 - 2012-06-05 04:26:35 UTC
I have a unified inventory improvement suggestion - roll it back - it sucks.
Murashu
Dead and Delirious
Brotherhood of Spacers
#84 - 2012-06-05 04:28:47 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Yeah, we'll make it easier to use. Added to what you're talking about, we're looking at adding bays to the neocom, so if you drag the drone bay to the neocom, you can access it from there when it's available, it's kind of cool. Anyway, on it Big smile


If that is the case, when can we expect to have the date as an option for the neocom? In it's present form it is still less functional that it was before. Please give us the option to see it without clicking or having to mouseover something else.
Disdaine
#85 - 2012-06-05 05:23:48 UTC
How long has the new neocom been around now?

Still waiting for it to have the same functionality as what it replaced.

At this rate unified inventory should be good to go in six months.
Tequila Breeze
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-06-05 05:27:03 UTC
lixxi chixxi wrote:
I have a unified inventory improvement suggestion - roll it back - it sucks.


Unsub 2 accounts !
Kasriel
#87 - 2012-06-05 05:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasriel
these forums are ******* shocking it just ate my post three times and i cba to find the quotes again.

essentially it boils down to:

it's nice to know how much all those messages from CCP Soundwave meant, you know all those ones saying they would keep patching it till this piece of crap UI worked with no lost functionality compared to the old one? now you've basically said everybody is stuck with it in it's current buggy form for AT LEAST another few weeks.

awesome
Dorn Val
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2012-06-05 05:43:32 UTC
CCP I think that the unified inventory is great, an obvious step in the right direction for the UI, and anyone complaining at this point wouldn't be happy no matter what you did or is crying cause their botting program isn't working....

Please keep up the excellent work on FIS!!!!!

Respectfully,

Dorn

Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate...
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2012-06-05 05:58:55 UTC
So I resubbed on saturday cuz I could and because I was bored. First thing I did was to check out where the hell I left and what I was doing and that includes my HOLYCRABWHATWEIRDWINDOWISTHIS-cargo. So I hauled back to my "home" and after trying!!! to reorganize my HUD I just gave up.

Sure - the inventory is unified now - all the stuff in one window - but I had that before. Shiphangar, stationhangar, wallet were all on the bottom of the screen, 15 items wide and 5 high. Containers, dronebays, shipcargo all in the lower right, 5 wide, 3 high. Now I have a gignatic slab on the bottom which I still have problems to navigate. The best pro I can come up with is that I don't have to scroll though my stationhangar to access the SSCs containing implants and BPOs/BPCs/salvage/whatever, and that is not much of a trade for a semi-beautiful window. Besides that the tabs just changed from top to left.

Now let's see what I don't like. It's called UNIFIED inventory. It has a lot of items in different locations. WHY - tell me WHY didn't you just make ANOTHER tree that said "Assets". WHY? Where's the DIFFERENCE? Just do it.

I completely forgot to check out where the hell my wallet went, but I recon it will still occupy the same place it did before - unchanged. It could need some work too.
Thanks for telling me that all my assets and ships together are like 450m currently. Now I feel poor, but it saves me the time to calc it myself xD.

Wanna bet I can find more stuff to go into rage-mode over once I have time to play a bit more with it, starting thursday?
Georgiy Giggle
Senclave
Apocalypse Now.
#90 - 2012-06-05 06:30:03 UTC
Oh, won't we need to press SHIFT anymore when want to open cargohold, item hangar, container etc?

Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-06-05 06:49:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Ramman K'arojic wrote:
Soundwave,

Given the vast number of thread-naughts with comments and suggestions from every pod and his dog ; is there are definitive complete authoritative list of improvements that will be made at some point between UI - say between now and end of the year ?

Ramm


Not definitive, we have a long list that we're constantly adding to. You'll very likely see us iterating based on feedback till late in the year if needed, so this feature is definitely not being left behind :)


Can I have a look at the current list of improvements concerning the UI? You just said; we will slow down the rate of patches but bring more stuff some day. What exact do you mean? What stuff? What is your time frame?

- More available independent windows; adjustable in size and position -WITHOUT any Shift+crap? Just doubleclicks?
- All former options back into the right click menues?
- All Icons back to the NeoCom?

WHAT? What kind of stuff do you will re implement? You just said nothing about the further improvements. Something about the performance and lag and something about the feedback from the forums; but NOTHING about the function itself. Sad It is irrelevant what performance this unified crap will have. I can not use the whole concept of "JUST ONE WINDOW" idea! I need doubleclicks; Icons and hundreds of own windows. NOT this unified UI!

Will you bring back the 100% copy of the old UI? And if not; WHY? The old UI never had performance issues. The issues came up with the new unified Crap-UI. Evil

WHAT are your next steps CCP, CCP Soundwave / Arrow / Optimal?
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-06-05 06:56:17 UTC
Lord Helghast wrote:
Culmen wrote:
You know at the rate CCP is going... they might end up rolling back the whole thing one piece at a time.

All of this could have been avoided if they just tacked on the tree view to the old inventory scheme and didn't muck with anything else.

Adding a feature to an existing one is probably going to be a lot less painful than replacing it wholesale, AND THEN going on a loop back to the old feature.


Wow you guys really dont get this... THEY COULDNT DO ANYTHING TO THE OLD CRAP, it was 10 year old uncommented crappy code that they litterally had to fork lift out and replace from the ground up, there was no "tacking on XXX" to the inventory, it was a full and entire rewrite they've said it like a DOZEN times already.



THAN; they have to absolute rebuild the old UI with their new code BEFORE they do anything else. As WE ALL said it DOZEN times already. Roll
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#93 - 2012-06-05 07:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Am I allowed a constructive comment?

I noticed the new UI still takes 9.6 seconds to load the items in a station.

It's just few items but they are containers with hundreds of stuff inside.


Tip to speed it up tenfold: only load containers content on demand (lazy load) so we only wait on the 1-2 containers we really wanted to open and not all 51. The same applies to POSes and everywhere there's a complex tree. Have it loaded only when requested, not all the time. All the time = huge waste of time and servers queries.



Another suggestion.

When the user presses the inventory button change the effect to this:

1) If any UI has visible tree => do nothing.
2) If no UI window has visible tree spawn tree UI at center of screen. This will avoid the HUGELY ANNOYING situation where we setup all the station as we want but if there's no tree view you have to start fiddling, expanding and whatever.

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Dex Tera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-06-05 07:20:24 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
Wait, so, your telling me that when the Dev's have told us that returning the UI functionality to something even remotely close to what he had before by saying this was the "main focus until this is fixed" really means most of us who lost most of our daily functionality still can't play this game as we have for the past YEARS until a whole MONTH after you release this broken thing onto TQ after almost a MONTH of feedback on SiSi telling you it wasn't ready?

I hope for your learning sake you guys lose even more subs b/c you are too stubborn to see why all of these accounts are unsubbing.

You seem to be forgetting that ppl in corps CAN'T access stuff, who cares if it loads slower for the few that can...you are breaking alot of WH/0.0 corps with this "feature". And now you are telling them they can't operate on the normal level for another 3 weeks?

What happened to this seemingly stellar new attitude that you guys knew you broke it and were going to try hard to fix it? At this stage, forget 'the regular expansion/release" schedule, get this fixed. NOW. Don't complain about how quick you've had to push out releases, when you caused this to begin with. It would not have happened had you listened to feedback to begin with. Period.


dude STFU HTFU & ADAPT IT WORKS FINE YOUR JUST A WHINER!
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#95 - 2012-06-05 07:24:09 UTC
:)

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Josef Djugashvilis
#96 - 2012-06-05 07:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
One would think that smaller frequent updates which do work, are better than bigger infrequent updates which do not work.

This is not a signature.
Kniht
#97 - 2012-06-05 07:38:38 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
[We're stuck in centralized source control.]


hg, git, bzr

o/ fly crazy
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#98 - 2012-06-05 08:16:44 UTC
One thing I can mention as a positive is that when copying bookmarks to give to allies for, say, hopping fleets into wormholes, this is now faster with the UI changes.

More broadly, you whiners need to grow up and deal with it as adults. Calling CCP idiots is not the way to go forward with this. By all means, list your problems and complaints (even I am guilty of not using the bug reporter as much as I should; but to be fair all of these issues were reported by corpmates) but don't just come onto the forums and sperge crap about how you are going to unsub, demand refunds, demand your pound of flesh.

The fact you are having a suboptimal experience is as much down to you not engaging as much as you should have with playtesting as it is with CCP not listening during the development and testing cycle on SiSi and pulling the trigger too early. It didn't break the game except for hardcore industrialists, but from my POV they have just found workarounds to deficiencies in the old UI which they have made habits, and are now complaining because it is hard to retrain habits.

This is true for me, too. I was used to right-click open new instance. Now I shift-click. OMG, so hard! The issues is in-front-of keyboard, not in the coding backend in this case.

The issues which really matter here are the freezes, the disconnects, the hanging and the load times which this Unified Inventory has brought about. Ideally, the game shouldn't cark it when you swap ships with an open cargo. it should close the cargo automatically, stop pinging the database for information on each and every damn item on grid with you (seriously) and then smoothly get into the new ship.

The game as it stands now, going on a decade old, is much more complex than it once was. The Unified Inventory is a way of flattening this information (as a dude who works with databases, I know what kind of performance benefits this can have) which in theory, should improve the experience.

The problem as I see it, is the Unified Inventory is too broad. It is trying to gather too much information around the player in space, display it in a flat format, and this then loads too much data into the program at once. Every item has a massive list of attributes, and the UI seems to want to put all of that at your fingertips for EVERYTHING all at once. Nice, in theory, but somewhere it is breaking down and the game chokes on this flood of information.

The devs and programmers, meanwhile, have to put up with presumably adult men acting like three year old girls who've had their ponies taken away for cleaning. Grow up, or actually unsub before telling us you will. Which you won't - misery loves company, and all the whiners are pretty bloody miserable.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Lucian Anell
Corvus Technologies
#99 - 2012-06-05 08:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucian Anell
For some reason the new inventory took a few steps backwards for me in the last day or two. I have not really an idea what patch (or other influence) causes this, but the memory capability of the new inventory seems to have commited suicide recently.

Why? Because it cannot remember anything.

  • "My filters" minimized? Why not have to do it again every time?
  • New positions and sizes for every new ship you activate? Spend some quality time arranging it for the x-th time.
  • Size of the index column? Oh come on ... you can spend those precious seconds every time you open the inventory.
  • "Index" missing altogether opening the inventory? ... It's just one (additional) click away. Every time ....

Don't get me wrong. At the end of it all, I quiet like the new inventory system in general. I set up a POS the other day and wasn't really shocked as well (Question here: why does EVERY structure automatically have the full list of corp-divions? Why not have none and then be able to add them individually or all at once?) But the inabilty of the inventory to remember a ###### thing really drives me crazy.

Oh .... and one other suggestion. Why does the inventory forcefully drag me into another sub-folder (e.g. the item hangar) if I drag items there from somewhere else and just hoover over said sub-folder for a second to long? Folders should open when I click on them, not when my mouse cursor is just over them for two seconds .... or at least have the option to turn this "feature" off. Makes dragging stuff around rather cumbersome in my opinion.

The old German saying "surgery successful, patient dead" isn't yet true for the inventory, but the patient is surely having some problems ...
Lucian
Bim bo
SOMESOWHATTHEF
#100 - 2012-06-05 08:34:44 UTC
ccp realeases a "toyota patch",customer complain accellerator get stuck,
ccp say only give half throtle u'll be fine,customers still complain,
ccp says we will give u new paint job,customers still complain,
ccp says well give u bigger alloy wheels in a mounth,
customers still complaint!

please call back the "toyota" ccp