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In a game world where resources become depleted and reseeded...

Author
ashley Eoner
#81 - 2012-06-02 18:35:03 UTC
Roisin Saoirse wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Hell a goon admitted earlier that they are even botting hulkageddon by automating payouts..

As I understood it, the only automation was in collating killmail/API info to help keep track of the bounty payouts. That isn't botting, since the actual payouts are handled by a real person.
Oh so they are only partially botting the event..
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
#82 - 2012-06-02 18:35:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
No, you came over here with your baseless numbers
…except that my numbers are not baseless.

You're confusing me with you.

I came over here with CCP's official numbers, based on their collection methods, and then explained that the people quoting them were quoting them wrong. I didn't attempt to act as though I knew what I was talking about; knew what I was talking about and pointed out that those quoting the number incorrectly did not.

Your insistence on using strawmen, ad hominems, appeals to (unproven) authority, red herrings, and whatever fallacy you manage to dredge out next doesn't change this very simple fact: no, 70% of players do not live in highsec — the percentage of players living in highsec is unknown and unknowable.



Oh, fuckin Aye! Pardon me, I did not ******* know that you were more of a ******* expert at CCP's numbers then CCP! You have amazed me with your stellar performance of absolutely nothing regarding nothing to do with the discussion! I forgot that fanboys with numbers from the official source are more god damn expert at applying said numbers then a well funded company with an inherent interest in understanding the trends within the use of their own product to better understand how to make more money and maintain the hahah..."integrity" of their product.

What would the world do without you fanboys to correct those idiots at ccp at the use of their own numbers.

Oh...wait...CCP never talked to me to understand just how many alts I have and which one I claim to be a main, if such a vague term can be applied to any one of them, in order to understand if I identify myself with hisec, lowsec, or nullsec during the interstellar census of stardate 0.20101.48402.1Beta-4.

Of course no matter how many times you post ramblings about your flimsy numbers that you hit with your baseless calculations in order skew the population numbers in whatever way you perceive to be useful to your argument about where the player base is actually in......wait, do you see that? Your stupid attempt of establishing where the playerbase really is has come full circle to show that even if you were right, it means nothing because you are rambling on about numbers that have nothing to do with the actual point of this thread which is a busted game mechanic! Its like a ******* boomerang! You throw numbers out there and it comes flying right back to you saying, "THIS STILL MEANS NOTHING TO THIS DISCUSSION!!!!"

hahahahah...Lol



Cake or Pie?
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
#83 - 2012-06-02 18:36:51 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Roisin Saoirse wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Hell a goon admitted earlier that they are even botting hulkageddon by automating payouts..

As I understood it, the only automation was in collating killmail/API info to help keep track of the bounty payouts. That isn't botting, since the actual payouts are handled by a real person.
Oh so they are only partially botting the event..



hahaha, wait, so they are just afking the whole event? They set things up to do most of the work, walk away, then come back and do something at the end. Hmm, kinda like an afk miner setting up his barge to do a cycle, walking to the bathroom, coming back then moving the ore? Kinda like that??X
Roisin Saoirse
Doomheim
#84 - 2012-06-02 18:42:22 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Oh so they are only partially botting the event..

Automating API tasks and information sorting isn't 'botting'. If it was, Chribba would have been banned years ago. Roll
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-06-02 18:42:28 UTC
hey OP. http://i.qkme.me/eb6.jpg

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#86 - 2012-06-02 18:42:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
Oh, fuckin Aye! Pardon me, I did not ******* know that you were more of a ******* expert at CCP's numbers then CCP!
Another strawman. Nothing of the sort has been claimed (except by you).

Quote:
What would the world do without you fanboys to correct those idiots at ccp at the use of their own numbers.
Yes, that's kind of my point: people are trying to assign a meaning to the statistics that they don't have, and that CCP have never said anything about. I'm simply explaining to you what they actually say and how this can result in them showing the exact opposite of what you claim.

The simple fact remains: no, 70% of players do not live in highsec — the percentage of players living in highsec is unknown and unknowable. No amount of ranting and raving from your side will change this fact. You're better off calming down and just admit that the argument you tried to make based on this claim was, in fact, without any basis; that the supposed problem that such a statistic would create may actually not exist.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#87 - 2012-06-02 18:43:25 UTC
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
Oh, fuckin Aye! Pardon me, I did not ******* know that you were more of a ******* expert at CCP's numbers then CCP! You have amazed me with your stellar performance of absolutely nothing regarding nothing to do with the discussion! I forgot that fanboys with numbers from the official source are more god damn expert at applying said numbers then a well funded company with an inherent interest in understanding the trends within the use of their own product to better understand how to make more money and maintain the hahah..."integrity" of their product.

What would the world do without you fanboys to correct those idiots at ccp at the use of their own numbers.

It's not correcting CCP, CCP know perfectly well that the data they presented shows character distribution and not player distribution.

It's idiots misinterpreting what CCP have said that leads to all the misunderstandings.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#88 - 2012-06-02 18:45:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The simple fact remains: no, 70% of players do not live in highsec — the percentage of players living in highsec is unknown and unknowable. No amount of ranting and raving from your side will change this fact. You're better off calming down and just admit that the argument you tried to make based on this claim was, in fact, without any basis; that the supposed problem that such a statistic would create may actually not exist.

It would be interesting to see character distribution with characters tied to accounts via IP address on login.

Although you'd have to make the assumption that the highest SP character is the "main" account, which isn't always accurate. And it'd still be a little inaccurate if it was done on a snapshot based on where people were at a single point in time, but it'd beat just plain character distribution.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
#89 - 2012-06-02 18:46:59 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
It would be interesting to see if a moon can be depleted, but the rate of attrition to be throttled. Something like an oil well where there is a certain re-accumulation (depleted oil wells do come back after a while) rate and how much is mined out of it.

This would mean that an alliance building ships like there was no tomorrow would mine their resources flat, and others that do not engage in stupid-ship-sacrifice/blob tactics would have resources on the long term. Resources should be depleted because the basis for most conflict is over resources. If our real world had infinite resources and free energy, there would be no wars but every nation would have at least 100 aircraft carriers, even Iceland.
(they would be long aircraft carriers, with oars).




Oh damn, its Trent Rez....wait, no, it can't be. Either way that is a damn good point that so many people are missing. IF CCP really wants EVE to be a game about PVP on a massive scale then the need to acquire additional resources is something they need to implement in the game by removing the out of place game mechanic that only pushes the game world into stagnation. But, if CCP wants to be viewed as the game company that sells griefing rights to players then they are on the right track as the busted mechanic is helping to fund player harassement of individuals who really don't bother anyone. That is unless goon decided that they wanted to move to hisec and farm veldspar.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#90 - 2012-06-02 18:49:32 UTC
Morganta wrote:
running a moon goo POS is hardly passive

go build a POS over a tech moon and tell us again how little work it is


right otec anyone?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
#91 - 2012-06-02 18:50:06 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Tippia wrote:
The simple fact remains: no, 70% of players do not live in highsec — the percentage of players living in highsec is unknown and unknowable. No amount of ranting and raving from your side will change this fact. You're better off calming down and just admit that the argument you tried to make based on this claim was, in fact, without any basis; that the supposed problem that such a statistic would create may actually not exist.

It would be interesting to see character distribution with characters tied to accounts via IP address on login.

Although you'd have to make the assumption that the highest SP character is the "main" account, which isn't always accurate. And it'd still be a little inaccurate if it was done on a snapshot based on where people were at a single point in time, but it'd beat just plain character distribution.



It would be interesting to see player webs of each account that they have. The only problem there is that the highest SP is not always going to be the main since there are those that buy mining and industry characters to fund their real way of playing EVE. The only way to suggest a possible main is to look for an account that is doing the least boring thing in game the most of the time, meaning which one is getting on the killboard most of the time out of their accounts. Also the most ships and isk would help reduce the false positives.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#92 - 2012-06-02 18:50:53 UTC
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
IF CCP really wants EVE to be a game about PVP on a massive scale then the need to acquire additional resources is something they need to implement in the game by removing the out of place game mechanic that only pushes the game world into stagnation.
No, that is not a requirement to create PvP on a massive scale, or the PvP on a massive scale that has happened throughout EVE's history wouldn't have happened.

Stagnation can just as well come from the difficulty and cost of ousting the inhabitants of the system, for instance…
ashley Eoner
#93 - 2012-06-02 18:52:17 UTC
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Roisin Saoirse wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Hell a goon admitted earlier that they are even botting hulkageddon by automating payouts..

As I understood it, the only automation was in collating killmail/API info to help keep track of the bounty payouts. That isn't botting, since the actual payouts are handled by a real person.
Oh so they are only partially botting the event..



hahaha, wait, so they are just afking the whole event? They set things up to do most of the work, walk away, then come back and do something at the end. Hmm, kinda like an afk miner setting up his barge to do a cycle, walking to the bathroom, coming back then moving the ore? Kinda like that??X
Remember it's only okay when they do it...
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
#94 - 2012-06-02 18:53:00 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:



sorry, not using any links on this forum. Other forums, okay, but this forum? Kinda like sleeping with an aids ridden hooker without a condom while waving around a stack of money. You know you are getting screwed for sure, but what virus you are going to catch is unknown, but what is known is that you are catching something.
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
#95 - 2012-06-02 18:54:28 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Roisin Saoirse wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Hell a goon admitted earlier that they are even botting hulkageddon by automating payouts..

As I understood it, the only automation was in collating killmail/API info to help keep track of the bounty payouts. That isn't botting, since the actual payouts are handled by a real person.
Oh so they are only partially botting the event..



hahaha, wait, so they are just afking the whole event? They set things up to do most of the work, walk away, then come back and do something at the end. Hmm, kinda like an afk miner setting up his barge to do a cycle, walking to the bathroom, coming back then moving the ore? Kinda like that??X
Remember it's only okay when they do it...



well..yeah...just like any good demagog it is evil when "they" do it, but it is virtuous when "we" do it.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#96 - 2012-06-02 18:55:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
IF CCP really wants EVE to be a game about PVP on a massive scale then the need to acquire additional resources is something they need to implement in the game by removing the out of place game mechanic that only pushes the game world into stagnation.
No, that is not a requirement to create PvP on a massive scale, or the PvP on a massive scale that has happened throughout EVE's history wouldn't have happened.

Stagnation can just as well come from the difficulty and cost of ousting the inhabitants of the system, for instance…


right like otec?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Roisin Saoirse
Doomheim
#97 - 2012-06-02 19:00:55 UTC
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
Oh damn, its Trent Rez....

+1 for the Trent Reznor reference. More posts need Trent references, regardless of content.
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
#98 - 2012-06-02 19:12:29 UTC
Roisin Saoirse wrote:
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
Oh damn, its Trent Rez....

+1 for the Trent Reznor reference. More posts need Trent references, regardless of content.


On this we can absolutely agree upon.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#99 - 2012-06-02 19:26:06 UTC
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
It would be interesting to see player webs of each account that they have. The only problem there is that the highest SP is not always going to be the main since there are those that buy mining and industry characters to fund their real way of playing EVE. The only way to suggest a possible main is to look for an account that is doing the least boring thing in game the most of the time, meaning which one is getting on the killboard most of the time out of their accounts. Also the most ships and isk would help reduce the false positives.

Well an industrial player isn't going to have their "main" showing up on the kill board the most unless they're terrible.

But the point is that most people have their highest SP characters in the place that they find the most important. My alts have more SP than my original "main", but I still use them in the area in which I reside (low sec at the moment). My only low SP characters are in high sec, as they are for trading and hauling.

It's unlikely that on an account with two ~10m SP characters in high/low sec, and one 100m SP character in null sec the player behind the account will call high sec home. This isn't a 100% accurate assumption, but it would be considerably more useful than the character distribution shown so far.

Similarly with a high sec industrialist with a few characters sitting out in low sec for POS management or PI, the assumption would be correct. I cannot really think of a situation in which a player would have their highest SP character outside of the area in which they live.

Maybe when null sec players were running incursions they'd have had a reason to move high SP toons to high sec, but now they've been rebalanced as far as I'm aware and most people are back making ISK in null/whs.

AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
But, if CCP wants to be viewed as the game company that sells griefing rights to players then they are on the right track as the busted mechanic is helping to fund player harassement of individuals who really don't bother anyone. That is unless goon decided that they wanted to move to hisec and farm veldspar.

I think we've already highlighted that technetium isn't really funding hulkageddon. The cost is only ~20b, which is an insignificant amount of ISK.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
#100 - 2012-06-02 19:37:26 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:


AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:
But, if CCP wants to be viewed as the game company that sells griefing rights to players then they are on the right track as the busted mechanic is helping to fund player harassement of individuals who really don't bother anyone. That is unless goon decided that they wanted to move to hisec and farm veldspar.

I think we've already highlighted that technetium isn't really funding hulkageddon. The cost is only ~20b, which is an insignificant amount of ISK.



I am not saying that 100% of hulkageddon is being funded by their moon. That means it is not the only reason that goons can fund hulkageddon. If CCp took the moon out right now, hulkageddon could easily continue on, or most likely would.

What I was saying is that the entire hulkageddon situation, where people are being paid to grief made me consider means that the goons can fund such a project indefinitely. What sources of income does a major alliance have? Chances are they have their hands in just about every means of making isk, but which ones are unique to major alliances? Refine that down to moon mining and I ended up with the experience I had with a pos moon mining network as a rather hypocritical means of funding the war on miners, afk moon mining. This linked up with the recent change to datacores in which ccp said that it was just to easy and to passive of a means of making isk. This all boiled down to the fact that moon mining is passive as no one is actively piloting a ship to harvest the materials from the moon. All the other nonsense related to moon mining is not counted as actively harvesting the materials. So regardless of hulkageddon teetering on the output of a moon, or otherwise, the point of the thread is to shine a light on a mechanic that is flawed and outdated according to CCP's statements and recent changes.


No, I do not have any real stream of datacores, I don't really care much about the change, nor am I a miner that has been blasted in hulkageddon, though I do have a problem with the fact that I have talked to some of those hulk pilots and that they are simply players trying to be as active in eve as they can within their RL obligations. It is better to have more people in game that can have various experiences that they are seeking out then to purge an entire segment of the game's population for some scam that the goons are pulling that is thinly vieled as an attack against people that are being portrayed as parasites of the game.