These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Abandoned POS
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Picaroon Standoffish
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-05-31 04:19:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Picaroon Standoffish
I know a lot of people have complain and offer solution for it and nothing is going on at the moment! But I am now in front of that problem!

I am looking to set up a small research POS to check out a bit the research/industry system of Eve, so I looked at all the moo of the system I would like to set it ..... 100% of them are taken, and 50% of them are offline abandoned POS! I did the research to make sure it's abandoned, people are not connecting, and website like eve-who says it's inactive etc, and some for more than 1 year!

So thanks to the new wardec system, I spend 50M to war dec a corporation with 11 inactive people in there! buy a lot lot lot ammo to destroy that POS, and fit the BS with maximum damage (no point to have tank against inactive people and no gun POS!)

It's now been 4 hours I am firing at that tower (down to 80% shield), I can't get off the computer, but when the gun reload, they don't fire again, so I have to be here to fire them! and I need to check that my sentry drones do not drift too far away (because yes, they are sentry drone, but over the last 4 hours they have drifted 10km away from me!)

I am a bit starving now, I think I gonna have to loose some gun DPS to eat!

So here are a few question I would like CCP to ask themself:
- If wreck/container in space take CPU usage and the downtime allow you clean that, how much CPU usage does abandoned POS cost you on the server?
- Considering the queue for research in NPC station, a research POS is the best to do that, how much more appealing would you like to bring it to a fairly new bunch of industrial people who spend their SP on industry & Science skills and not BS and gunnery skill? (by appealing, I mean not having to pay mercenaries for 200M+ to destroy it for you, and spend a few days destroying it by themselve)!

That is just the problem and I know I am not the only one facing it, so a few possible ideas:


- Ideas
. Consequences (pros or cons, it usually depend on people)


- Having a skill/module that allow you to take control/hack the tower.
. Still need the wardec cost
. will make people clean those tower for you and resell them!
. Tower price will go down as the market will be flowded by those tower!
. null sec strategy is going to take a hit as people could claim the offline tower!
. New carrier path for player (space junk recycler)


- Your script despawn unused GSC, add the offline tower in it.
. CCP can decide how long before a tower can will be removed.
. CCP could probably decided to run the script for low-null sec or not!
. Make it easier for new industry corporation to set up their POS
. no additional cost involved to the player
. Ingame mail can be use to warn the POS owner.


- NPC corp help (concord or another), player will pay fees (like 25-50M) to ask the corp to destroy the abandoned tower for you.
. CCP can make the corp check that the players from the POS corp haven't been connected for a certain amount of time before accepting to destroy it.
. Player still have to pay a fees but does not have to wait for the wardec to start and POS to be destroy
. Does not affect low-null sector and strategy


- Offline POS does not have shield!
. Still need the wardec to be on
. easier to destroy the POS.
. probably easy to code.


- Player send a ticket to CCP for the removal of the POS
. Take a lot of CCP human ressource to check that the POS is abandoned and to remove it
. GM probably have better things to do
. remove any kind of immersion
. I'll be happy to hunt those tower and spam the tikets!
. Lazy solution, does not need a brain



Yes there is no specific and detailed solution, not my job, those are ideas/concept that could fix the problem. I have tried to take into account the tactics I know of about offline POS! and also about people for who the POS market is their ISK, and the fact that offline does not mean abandoned. It would also force people to be more aware of their isk with POS.

Add your own idea, what you think about those I offered (some are not even new, but already purpose by other players).
Be constructive and fly safe!

Edit: After mxzf post, I went to have look at the AH forum, there is a post with one idea about the abandoned POS: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62167
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-05-31 05:25:33 UTC
[Oracle, Oracle fit]

Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L

Medium Energy Burst Aerator I
Medium Energy Burst Aerator I
[Empty Rig slot]

go afk.
856 dps, cap stable, great tracking for more and better wrecking shots, yes even on nonmoving structures.
cheaper then most bs, no drones, but cest'la vie. enough range to take out that large you are shooting solo.

or , instead of being stupid, check other systems, you are complaining that a very specific choice that you are making is hard.
and you arent even doing that right.

on the other hand, being able to steal the tower, have it drop loot or dropping the offline pos shields are all interesting ideas

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Picaroon Standoffish
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-05-31 06:41:33 UTC
Thanks for the fit, but Amarr BS is quite far away skill wise. So T2 pulse even more.

Yes it is a choice I made not to go 30jumps more far than where I am based. And yes it suck for me not to be based so far from where everyone is.

I am not really complaining, I wanted to try something, and to my opinion (and those of other people who wanted to tried the same thing) there is a problem with the abandoned POS. So offer some possible ideas.

Now I am still trying to get that POS for my personal experience it give me about the game. and if I can't because obviously I have a life, well too bad for me, I will try another way. Like deciding to loose the money and take a small one out instead of that large. The reason I choose that large, it's because there is 300M worth of module to unanchor after and it will make the ammo/wardec pay back.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#4 - 2012-05-31 08:53:15 UTC
1. Oracle is the Amarr tier 3 BC, not a BS. Lasers are the "best" for POS bashing because they don't need to reload. T2 lasers are nice, though you can replace with Meta 3/4 and not lose *too much* DPS.
2. If you can't fly that, fly whatever you can. It is possible to get a Talos up to around 1k DPS (but even more hilariously thin tank than normal)

3. Try "diplomacy" --> hey [other corp ceo], I see you have an abandoned tower at [system, moon]. You guys mind taking it down? (granted, this won't work if the corp really is dead)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Picaroon Standoffish
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-05-31 09:52:04 UTC
Don't know much about amarr, but still can't fly them, anyway I have a dominix + drake atm on it (54% left on the shield)

Diplomacy does not work against ghost as again the corp is inactive.

As much as I do appreciate all the input to help me get the tower down, the post is more to offer potential ideas to CCP about how to avoid having doing that against inactive corp in the futur (far futur considering they have lot of work on v3 and ship balancing)
Druuna Ewwith
Karlin Mining Limited
#6 - 2012-05-31 11:06:50 UTC
I like the idea, especially if available in WH space without war dec

you find an offline tower, you hack-it and take it with you ;)

D.
Aulus Corvus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-06-01 18:15:04 UTC
supported.

Not sure about the solution, but CCP definitely need to put this on their to do list.
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-06-01 19:35:54 UTC
I like the idea of being able to hack an offline pos.

Perhaps make it a higher tier of salvaging skills.

Should require the war dec (be a hostile act and punishable in high sec)

POS would have to be offline.

This would become a new revenue stream for salvagers, and would clean up the abandoned POS's, and would mean you could conceivably siege a null sec pos till it runs out of fuel and then salvage it instead of pos bashing....

There are worse ideas.

+1
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#9 - 2012-06-01 20:27:33 UTC
You can also ask some mercs to join your corp for a few hours to add dps.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-06-01 21:01:36 UTC
Yes, there should be a way to take what is basically a derelict, rather than just blow it up.

However, this sort of thing is were sentries and lasers excel.

You don't need an Amarr ship to use lasers - you can throw lasers on the Domi if you wish, then you won't use any ammo to take it down, and can go AFK

Amarr boats will do more damage, and be easier to fit for cap stability while firing the lasers.. but still, I wouldn't be using ammo in your situation.
Selissa Shadoe
#11 - 2012-06-05 16:21:57 UTC
Loius Woo wrote:
I like the idea of being able to hack an offline pos.

Perhaps make it a higher tier of salvaging skills.

Should require the war dec (be a hostile act and punishable in high sec)

POS would have to be offline.

This would become a new revenue stream for salvagers, and would clean up the abandoned POS's, and would mean you could conceivably siege a null sec pos till it runs out of fuel and then salvage it instead of pos bashing....

There are worse ideas.

+1


After what time period does a POS qualify as 'abandoned' though? That's the part that I have a problem with, otherwise supported. I think it would have to be offlined for 7 downtimes to be realistic, otherwise you invite grief play of starving a POS of fuel via wardec and stealing it as soon as the shield falls. Obviously most alert POS owners would keep their fuel bay stocked but people do have real lives too :)

"Whether suicide ganking or doing anything in eve, there are exorbitant amounts of people in the game and on the forums that are complete jerks." - Spikeflach
Mantis Ruckus
Noc Industry
#12 - 2012-06-05 16:29:47 UTC
To cut right to the chase if a POS is offline for X number of days it should be classified as abandoned and open for salvage. No war decing or bashing. It's abandoned and neglected. The owners can always reclaim the POS before the hard cutoff time of X. After X it's open season on hacking/salvage/looting.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#13 - 2012-06-05 16:39:43 UTC
First off, there's already a thread in AH regarding abandoned POS removal.

Second, the only place I've ever heard of all the moons being taken is within 5j or so of Jita. Try moving a few jumps further away. Most systems in Eve have ~70%+ of their moons free.
Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-06-05 17:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Trollin
high sec pos should be consider abandon the hour they dont have required racial charter in the fuel bay.

starving them for fuel via wardec is legitimate play, 7 dt is unreasonable, keep your charters stocked or gtfo

charter+no fuel= offline but honoring the racial commitments = wardec+bash
no charter=hackable

simple really.

We are our own worst enemy.
Mantis Ruckus
Noc Industry
#15 - 2012-06-05 17:45:18 UTC
mxzf wrote:
First off, there's already a thread in AH regarding abandoned POS removal.

Second, the only place I've ever heard of all the moons being taken is within 5j or so of Jita. Try moving a few jumps further away. Most systems in Eve have ~70%+ of their moons free.



Same deal 30+ jumps out in either direction. I've seen moons that could bring in net 30 million passive with an offline POS on them. I've even ran across a moon with JUST a POS on it offline in low sec. I've been scanning low sec .3 to.1 for the past week and shake my head at the amount of offline moons there are.
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#16 - 2012-06-05 20:33:40 UTC
Well as any orbiting body, a POS with no fuel should degrade in orbit and crash after ~30 days. No stealing, War-Decs etc. If the POS is offline for a month then it falls to the surface and disappears from orbit.

Easy to code and implement.
No fighting over locations of dead POS's.
No impact to even semi active Corps.
Khoda Khan
Vatlaa Corporation
#17 - 2012-06-05 21:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Khoda Khan
There is a method for removal of abandoned POSes already. It's called getting a few friends together, wardec'ing the corporation that owns the POS, and then hurling a bunch of energy, plasma/particle packets or high explosives at it. Abandoned POSes aren't an issue at all. The issue is another player's willingness or ability to remove it. If they don't have that will, or the ability to remove it, then I can muster no sympathy for them.

You're asking CCP to spend time fixing a problem that doesn't even exist in the first place.
Picaroon Standoffish
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-06-07 06:56:07 UTC
mxzf wrote:
First off, there's already a thread in AH regarding abandoned POS removal.

When you google to get some info, you don't end-up on that post and when you check on the Commonly Proposed Ideas post, it is not in it! I have actually never been to the AH forum!

mxzf wrote:

Second, the only place I've ever heard of all the moons being taken is within 5j or so of Jita. Try moving a few jumps further away. Most systems in Eve have ~70%+ of their moons free.

The system is 12 jump of Jita, but I guess the number of factory slot makes it a wanted place. Again not about my issue but more of trying to find a solution. I dealed with my problem.

Quote:
There is a method for removal of abandoned POSes already. It's called getting a few friends together, wardec'ing the corporation that owns the POS, and then hurling a bunch of energy, plasma/particle packets or high explosives at it. Abandoned POSes aren't an issue at all. The issue is another player's willingness or ability to remove it. If they don't have that will, or the ability to remove it, then I can muster no sympathy for them.

Agreed that if you want something you should put the effort on taking it! On the other side, player who decide to take a moon and have a POS should also go with the responsibility that having a POS mean: Fueling it!

Quote:
You're asking CCP to spend time fixing a problem that doesn't even exist in the first place.

If something is a problem or not, is a matter of decision from the game designers. I am asking CCP to have a look at a potential problem, a potential addition in term of gameplay/immersion. As well as getting a bit more consistent!
Giant Secure Container are removed from space even when they are anchored if they are not used for 30 days (so abandoned one), this is since Trinity 1.1! And so are abandoned ships!
To my point of view, every abandoned object in space should do the same then.

Quote:
After what time period does a POS qualify as 'abandoned' though? That's the part that I have a problem with, otherwise supported. I think it would have to be offlined for 7 downtimes to be realistic, otherwise you invite grief play of starving a POS of fuel via wardec and stealing it as soon as the shield falls. Obviously most alert POS owners would keep their fuel bay stocked but people do have real lives too :)

From CCP point of view on container, abandoned is 30 days without interaction (outside of a POS range). So if you keep the same idea, Even an offline POS where someone check the fuel hangar from time to time, is not abandoned, it's a strategical asset.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-06-07 09:58:26 UTC
I think EVERYTHING, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING that hasn't been touched by its owner and/or active in a month, and isn't secured in a station, should be abandoned and up for grabs.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Ja'thaal Deathbringer
The Directionally Challenged
#20 - 2012-06-09 06:11:45 UTC
It's a great idea, given that I was also looking to get a POS set up a few days ago. while I was perusing the moons in the system of my choice I cam across an offline Dread Gurista POS with all faction fittings and such. If I could hack that and take it with me I'd be very VERY happy.