Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I like your idea, i think that many amarr ships are good ships, but having a bonus as tracking speed , or optimal range can do them more useful in pvp and being balanced with the other ships in tank and dps as they are now those bonuses are a realy nice choice.
I like little nerf in the abaddon, and punisher damage bonus, using a rate of fire bonus too, it is a good idea to have the same balance with the other amarrian ships.

Many amarr ships have the 10% Reduced Cap use for Energy Weapons bonus that have no sense because:
1) it's true that pulse lasers they have the better range, but the worst tracking, and amarr ships are slower, so they can't choose the distance in a lot of cases. " And acs have a nice range too".
2) pulse lasers have a good dps but acs fitted in minmatar ships have 1 or 2 dps bonus, so in battle pulses have the worst dps, only in some cases "an Abaddon, or a Harbinger for example" they have a good dps.

So i think that the 10% Reduced Cap use for Energy Weapons bonus only compensate the reload time of laser crystals and that they need less cargo, but minmatar ships that need 10 secs to reload can choose damage, and blasters that have now 5 sec to reload and much better dps and tracking + a better hail amo now, is not a reason to lose a bonus in the 80% of amarrian ships only because they reload in 1 sec and they need less amo in the cargo.
It'll be a good idea to have in pvp more that acs and blasters, but i think that it ll be better a reduction of the 40% of lasers cap use.

Why 40% and not 30% ?
Well if the reduction is the 40%, a Mega Pulse Laser II with conflagration will need a 88,5% more cap that a Neutron Blaster II, and with a 30% it ll be a 120% more cap, and I see that a 120% is more that 2 times the cap needed for a Neutron Blaster so it is very unstable then a pulse.
The new bonuses that you say as more tracking, or optimal range are well chosen, only i think that a few ships need a 5% damage bonus :

(1) The maller, because it is a pain to fit it well, and with 200 of dps if it has a good tank it is to hard to kill a cruiser and they can neut you easy because they have a lot of time with those 200 of dps

(2) The coercer, it has only a medium slot so it need more dps because it is too hard to hunt a frigate with it.

(3) The apoc, i know that it can have a good dps, but i think that a 5% more dps and a 7,5% more range will be better that a 7,5% more tracking, because it is worst in dps and tank that the other amarrian bs, but it is a bs that can use easier mwd. So it needs more dps to be good as a med range dps fast ship
And it can be better too, because using a 5% dps bonus you can use it as sniper with the same dps that an Oracle, and then if you think that it is better to be sniper at 170km and faster you ll use the oracle, and to be at 230km you ll use the apoc, and the oracle that is at less range can use the tracking bonus then.
But the problem now it that the Oracle is faster and have more dps and it is cheaper, so 500 dps as sniper is better that 400 dps, so the oracle is the only sniper used.

And as i said, the other ships with more tracking , range or a reduction in mwd cap need can work well, only i think that those 3 ships need now more dps.

I don't speak about the legion, because I don't have the skills to use legions and i don't know what it needs.

But I don't think that ccp change this, because the only thing they associated with small pvp are blasters and acs , so np if Amarr ships don have some bonuses to be more flexible ships.
An example can be the tracking, because in large fleets that amarr ships are used a fast enemy can be stopped by 3 stasis and a scramble and then no one see the tracking problems that you can see is some ships in small pvp.

In my opinion those little changes can do that amarr ships have more uses and not only slow tanks that fire first, and that stop enemies and then blasters or acs dps ships can work better, because the enemy is losing time killing some 200k ehp abaddons.

Damn Forum ate my post

@Zhephell:
-Maller would get the same bonuses as the Abaddon and Punisher - Rate of Fire - to keep its cap weakness in line with them. This would also be done with the Prophecy
-The Apoc with a Damage bonus would risk obsoleting the Armageddon - Tracking and Range give it Great damage application, while still maintaining decent DPS.


@Xhaiden Ora
-If my previous suggestion isnt sticky enough, i believe you will find this more than adhesive enough for your stickyness:
Legion Covert Reconfiguration: 10% Bonus to Medium Energy Turret Damage.
-A Valid point: Ive seen ACs and Arty on Every Race - I've seen Mallers Hybrids (Even a Railgun Maller) - I've even seen a Light Neutron Blaster Stabber. Yet I've only ever seen Lasers on a non amarr ship once (On a Ferox - actually worked out quite well for the pilot, i should Try that sometime) The point is, we should be able to fly laser rifters if we want to - this change would make that slightly less ridiculous.

1: Though they have one useful bonus, they are still lacklustre in that they have only one useful bonus
2: As i stated in the OP, T2 Hulls suffer less from the cap use bonus, in that only 25% of their total bonuses is sub-par, as opposed to 50% on their T1 Variants. In addition, even the T2 Hulls with their 3 real bonuses and a cap use bonus (Retribution) Cant hold up very well when compared to a ship with 4 useful bonuses (Wolf)

Balance ships, not bonuses.

Amarr ships and lasers as they are currenty, are fine.
Trust me ^^

Amarr ships are pretty boring with most ships only having 1 real bonus as the lasers no longer have the historical advantage that warranted the current solution.

Tbh many Amarr ships have plenty cap without this bonus because they utlilize a passive omnitank (2 x eanm + dc) with plate(s) and the option to fit a cap booster if they need, so no reason to reduce the cap usage of lasers and no reason to keep the bonus as is.

I'd rather see CCP replacing the cap reduction bonus with stuff to give Amarr ships life and flavour. Amarr ships designed with lasers and active tank in mind would be capable of having a ROLE bonus and perhaps combined with cap amount/recharge to reflect... The majority of ships will be more fun and attractive with stuff like drone prophecy or gunnery bonuses like RoF, tracking and perhaps optimal range*

* (a bonus seemingly fitting the Apocalypse well contrary to the caldari counterparts that benefit nothing as they already have the longest ranged weaponry)

That's what I'm saying too. The point being that you can't look at bonuses in isolation from the ship - the ship is the complete package of hull stats, slots and bonuses.

But it should be appreciated that the "bad" Amarr ships used to support changes to the cap-use bonus are mostly victims of the tier system - Prophecy, Omen, for example. The Maller is top-tier, but is a victim of overpowered tier 2 BCs. The point is that changing the cap-use bonus is an inappropriate solution because the problem is not isolated to Amarr, it's common to almost all lower-tier ships and cruisers.

something along these lines should be done

Cap is not just a weakness but also a strength .. Amarr generally has bigger reservoirs and is the only race with neut/nos bonuses (Blood = Heathen Amarr). I dislike the 'useless' bonus as much as the next loyalist but you are going about it the wrong way I think.

- Cap is not really an issue, even on a ship like the Abaddon as proven by PL's rather ingenious use of rigging.
- Lasers have above average damage output and ability to tweak range rapidly through ammo change.
- RoF is not an Amarrian "thing". Only T1 ship I can think of with it is the Omen/Nomen.
- Tracking is not an Amarrian "thing". No T1 ship has that bonus (All Destroyers have same/similar bonuses so doesn't count). Risks Op'ness when combined with range benefits from rapid ammo change (aka. SCORCH!!!!).

Reduce cap consumption on the guns and you kick open the door for abominations like Laser :insertshipname:, which are already very viable in some situations. It should of course be possible to use off-race weapons but design should encourage use of proper race hull/weapon combinations .. which the current system does if you ask me.

My suggestion: Replacement for the cap use bonus should play to the strength of the hulls/race in general. Substituting it with a 10-20%/Level nosferatu/neutralizer efficiency bonus on some hulls and damage on others does just that without running the risk of "breaking" the weapons (balance wise) .. also makes sense story wise as each race has bonuses to counter its own ships (TP/Web countering small/fast Matar hulls, Damps/Scrams countering short range/'must close distance' Gallente hulls etc.)
Let all the resist hulls (Punisher, Maller, Prophecy) and a few of the low-tier ships get the damage bonus while others get the nos/neut bonus with a few specialist ships wielding the 'odd' bonuses taken from other races (ex. Omen can get nos/nuet while Nomen retains RoF or vice versa).

On the whole though, Amarr are in a pretty good place .. good balance between sacrifices/benefits .. it is all the other races that need to be brought in-line .

1: If, with smart fitting, the cap use on the abaddon isnt an issue, then why the cap bonus on any ship?
2: Armageddon/Ngeddon and Revelation


I never stated anything about lowering it to 'roughly the same as hybrids'

Run the math yourself - 30% Reduction would see it significantly above hybrid cap use. It would actually be MORE Cap/Second than it is currently (Approximately 40% More with max skills) On ships with a Cap use bonus, and approximately 20% Less on Ships without, such as the Abaddon (This would be an issue, as it DOES reduce the Abaddon's Major Weakness - but the 30% reduction is simply a placeholder, and would need to be properly balanced). Either Way, laser cap use remains significantly above Hybrid Cap use. It would actually end up making Hybrids Comparatively Better, and thats far from 'Beyond Jokes'.

If youre thinking that i'm just some ass that is trying to make their Race then next I-Win-Because-I-Fly-______, I'm not. I Use Hybrids more than I use Lasers.